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RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 6:55:56 AM

tommonymous

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I agree with your post, there are many delicate nuances involved and most regard intent. Unless you get to know the person, you really have no way of knowing what their intentions are concerning stating their race.

I'm basically a benefit-of-the-doubt guy--I'll mostly give people a pass and an opportunity to clarify or apologize if they step in a pile of metaphorical dog shit. I've done it on more than one occasion and I'll probably do it again. I hope that people will give me a shot at redeeming myself somewhat.

But, I think we can (fairly) make some (possibly incorrect) inferences about people without having met them. I'm content calling the white dude with the shaved head and the swastika tattoos a skinhead or neo-nazi without having met him. Of course, maybe it's an old photo and he's moved on from that part of his life...

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(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 21

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 6:55:57 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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Greta - I would never question your right to reject anyone who is of Arabic origins or who is Muslim. As I've already said, I don't believe our intimate relationships are subject to equal opportunities and you can set any restrictions you like.

That said, I'm not sure where you get 'it's not his choice whether he is Muslim or not' - of course it is. And leaving aside those who may be raised in the religion and decide to reject it as an adult, there are sizeable Christian and Jewish populations in the Arabic regions. Arab does not automatically equal Muslim. And more importantly Muslim does not automatically equal wife-beater. A great many Muslim people would tell you how very narrow that view is. Not to mention certain sub groups of Christianity have similar views about women. I'd guess the same is true of many faiths. And when it comes to domestic abuse, I assure you that it happens across all faiths and cultures.

Once again, you don't want to date people from Arabic countries or Muslims and that's fine. But the belief that all Arabs are Muslims and all Muslims condone beating women IS racist, in my mind.

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Post #: 22

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 6:57:29 AM

Greta75

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quote:

That said, I'm not sure where you get 'it's not his choice whether he is Muslim or not' - of course it is.

Look, you came from US or UK, I'm not sure, but where I am, about 1 hour away from me, my neighbour Malaysia. If you are born into a Mom or Dad who is a Muslim, to say you don't want to be a Muslim, is death penalty. It's the same in the middle east.

So I stand by my statement. They do not have a choice.

Muslim can choose not to practice the wife beating scriptures that the Quran teaches them, just like Christians can choose not to follow the bible. But point is, they are still supporting a religion that subscribe to wife beating. So as far as I am concern, that is an issue for me.

I don't think the bible has any scriptures that gives you step by step instructions on how to beat your wife. But I am an atheist anyway, so I am anti-ALL religion, but specifically cannot stand Islam because of all the hate towards women that the Quran preaches.

So do I believe there can be good Muslims? Of course there can be, it's all about whether they wish to follow their religion or not. But can I ever be sure someone who was born Muslim has truly given up his faith? I doubt it.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/28/2014 7:02:59 AM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 23

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:01:00 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

That said, I'm not sure where you get 'it's not his choice whether he is Muslim or not' - of course it is.

Look, you came from US or UK, I'm not sure, but where I am, about 1 hour away from me, my neighbour Malaysia. If you are born into a Mom or Dad who is a Muslim, to say you don't want to be a Muslim, is death penalty. It's the same in the middle east.

So I stand by my statement. They do not have a choice.

That still doesn't make the automatically wife beaters, to actually claim that Muslim is the same as wife beater IS actually a racist statement, that you don't want somebody as a partner is fine, that's your personal preference, but claiming one religion or race is all the same, that's pretty uninformed.

I know that in China animal rights are not high on the agenda, however I would never claim that every Chinese person is an animal abuser. See the difference?

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 24

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:04:20 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
That still doesn't make the automatically wife beaters, to actually claim that Muslim is the same as wife beater IS actually a racist statement, that you don't want somebody as a partner is fine, that's your personal preference, but claiming one religion or race is all the same, that's pretty uninformed.

If they support a religion that supports wife beating, they are as guilty to me.

quote:

I know that in China animal rights are not high on the agenda, however I would never claim that every Chinese person is an animal abuser. See the difference?

It's not the same. You don't get death penalty for refusing to abuse animals, but you do get death penalty for refusing to be muslim. See the difference?

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 25

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:09:36 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
That still doesn't make the automatically wife beaters, to actually claim that Muslim is the same as wife beater IS actually a racist statement, that you don't want somebody as a partner is fine, that's your personal preference, but claiming one religion or race is all the same, that's pretty uninformed.

If they support a religion that supports wife beating, they are as guilty to me.

quote:

I know that in China animal rights are not high on the agenda, however I would never claim that every Chinese person is an animal abuser. See the difference?

It's not the same. You don't get death penalty for refusing to abuse animals, but you do get death penalty for refusing to be muslim. See the difference?

So all those individuals are guilty even though they would be executed otherwise? That seems like some twisted logic. You say these people have literally no choice, on pain of death, but consider them all personally guilty?

Anyway you are surely not claiming Muslims get the death penalty for refusing to beat women? Because that would be the equivalent of what you are saying.

Honestly I don't know about the laws in Malaysia so I can't comment on that. But as I already said, the Middle East has sizeable Christian and Jewish populations. These aren't people renouncing Islam. These are people who were never Islamic. It's like refusing to believe that anyone in America isn't Christian, when it's demonstrably false.

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Post #: 26

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:11:04 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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~FR~

I think the white guy stating he's white on his profile is redundant, since there's already a checkbox for that, but not racist. I look white, but I am not. I have enough Caucasian ancestry to pass for white, but there's no checkbox to tell people my grandfather was from Spain, so I'm of Hispanic ethnicity. I'm also part Native American, but my Cherokee ancestor either had no birth certificate or it was lost, so I can't prove it. Someday, I hope the Nation will accept DNA results as proof of heritage. If I were to state all of that on my profile, would that be racist? I don't think so.

As far as the stereotype of the black bull/BBC is concerned, I do think that's racist. Fetishizing any race or ethnic group, whether it's African, Asian, Latino, or Caucasian, is racist, IMO.

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 27

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:17:03 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
That still doesn't make the automatically wife beaters, to actually claim that Muslim is the same as wife beater IS actually a racist statement, that you don't want somebody as a partner is fine, that's your personal preference, but claiming one religion or race is all the same, that's pretty uninformed.

If they support a religion that supports wife beating, they are as guilty to me.

quote:

I know that in China animal rights are not high on the agenda, however I would never claim that every Chinese person is an animal abuser. See the difference?

It's not the same. You don't get death penalty for refusing to abuse animals, but you do get death penalty for refusing to be muslim. See the difference?

I don't think you do know a lot about Muslims but you shout a lot of nonsense, it could be so easily dis-proven but I would be wasting my time on a narrow minded racist who's happy believing BS.

Anybody getting the death penalty for not beating women? Guess not, hope that I didn't confuse you with logic, if so, sorry if I don't care.

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 28

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:20:19 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
So all those individuals are guilty even though they would be executed otherwise? That seems like some twisted logic. You say these people have literally no choice, on pain of death, but consider them all personally guilty?

Yes, alot of them have no choice. But that is their fate and I simply do not want anything to do with them, incase they believe. I do not shun them, I work with them, and many are my friends. But I will never have a "love" relationship with them, because I can never trust them not to at some point of their lives feel guilty about straying from their religion and then return to it. I've seen some pretty modern Muslims in Singapore, who seem pretty westernized and chill on the surface, but end of the day, marry wives and expect them to cover their entire face, so of course they cannot force modern women to do that, so they go back to the hicks of India, Malaysia, Indonesia to marry pious wives who will be willing to wear the burka 24/7. Anyway, I live in a place surrounded by Muslims, so I've experienced more negatively than positively with the people of their religion, and also their children who wants out but can't get out. So my thoughts are formed by my personal experience. I think it's horrendous that Islam is completely against freedom of religion, the fact that they prevent people from leaving their religion by threatening their lives. By the way, in my country, the 4 wives thingy is legal only for Muslims, as well as marrying prepubescent, but of course, many modern muslims can't afford to have so many wives, so not many practice it anymore but point is, it's legal for them but not all other religions.

quote:

Anyway you are surely not claiming Muslims get the death penalty for refusing to beat women? Because that would be the equivalent of what you are saying.

Does the Chinese government preach to their China citizens to encourage abusing animals? As compared to the religious Imans who preach to their citizens, since Sharia laws is nationally instated, to discipline their wives?
It's two different things. A chinese citizen will not feel guilty about not abusing an animal. But a Muslim could feel religious guilt for not doing his "husbandly duties" of disciplining his wife.

quote:

These aren't people renouncing Islam. These are people who were never Islamic. It's like refusing to believe that anyone in America isn't Christian, when it's demonstrably false.

Okay, I think your point is that, an Arab could be a Jew or a Christian. I haven't met a Jew or a Christian Arab in my life yet. Until that happens, and I have enough proof they aren't Muslims. Arabs aren't for me. I have to honestly say that whenever someone from the middle east contacts me or from Muslim countries, my first question is, "Are you Muslim". And if they say, yes, I simply bluntly say, sorry, I don't date Muslims. And I don't see it as racism. I wouldn't date a chinese muslim too!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/28/2014 7:36:19 AM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 29

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:26:55 AM

angelikaJ

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Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

~FR~

I think the white guy stating he's white on his profile is redundant, since there's already a checkbox for that, but not racist. I look white, but I am not. I have enough Caucasian ancestry to pass for white, but there's no checkbox to tell people my grandfather was from Spain, so I'm of Hispanic ethnicity. I'm also part Native American, but my Cherokee ancestor either had no birth certificate or it was lost, so I can't prove it. Someday, I hope the Nation will accept DNA results as proof of heritage. If I were to state all of that on my profile, would that be racist? I don't think so.

As far as the stereotype of the black bull/BBC is concerned, I do think that's racist. Fetishizing any race or ethnic group, whether it's African, Asian, Latino, or Caucasian, is racist, IMO.

Temporary hijack?

I have always found it to be kind of silly that men and women write in their profiles that they are men or women.
Or feel the need to write out what side of the kneel they are on.
"I am a dominant man." etc.

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(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 30

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:31:31 AM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Temporary hijack?

I have always found it to be kind of silly that men and women write in their profiles that they are men or women.
Or feel the need to write out what side of the kneel they are on.
"I am a dominant man." etc.

LOL, no argument there! I can see maybe writing about their style of dominance/submission, but without that, what's the point? Well, beyond demonstrating they don't know the difference between "dominant" and "dominate"...because that's vital information.

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Post #: 31

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:39:14 AM

LadyMondenschein

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Hey Greta, I'm engaged to one. And I converted from Judaism to Islam. My fiance will never hurt me, nor will any of his family. He will never take another wife. He will never be violent with me. He loves me too much. And I, him. There's a whole lot supposedly in religious texts, but the Qu'ran & the old testament are not followed to the letter. They're simply a guidebook, for people to infer what they will. So as there are different sects of Jewish people, and christians, so there are different sects of Islamic people who don't all act the same, worship the same, follow the same...everyone's different ...All over the world.
And as Lady Constanze pointed out, yes, you have the right to refuse to date whom you choose. But you don't have the right to go sprouting falsehoods when your contact with the culture is as limited as yours has been.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 32

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:42:36 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMondenschein
There's a whole lot supposedly in religious texts, but the Qu'ran & the old testament are not followed to the letter. They're simply a guidebook, for people to infer what they will.

You chose to take the risk and marry one and you have been lucky, he chooses not to follow to the letter. That's your choice. But I am never willing to risk it.

Humans are unpredictable creatures. He possibly also, if he was brought up in the west, does not go through the same brainwashing as the mosques here do, IF they grew up as Muslims from kids, so for me, for someone who already selectively chooses what to follow and what not to follow, like your man, tells me, that he already knows there are shitty parts of his religion and yet his not willing to ditch it completely, I don't know why. You are able to accept that, I can never accept that in a mate. It will bother the hell out of me, because doesn't matter that he doesn't practice the parts where he doesn't like, point is, his still indirectly supporting something with parts he didn't like.

By the way, the Quran is not like the bible where different parts are written by different people. The Quran is simply Mohammed words directly written by whoever he assigned to write down his words. Whatever different sects there are, all of them follow the same Quran. It's only like your guy, the only difference is selective practice.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/28/2014 7:54:58 AM >

(in reply to LadyMondenschein)

Post #: 33

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:47:05 AM

theshytype

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I dated an Arab. Yes, he is Muslim. No, not all Arabs are Muslim. While he was born in the US (and teased by his family for speaking lousy Arabic), his parents were immigrants. I've met relatives of his that still lived in Egypt. I cannot even imagine judging them in such a way. They were all wonderful people who treated me very kindly and were a loving family. While I cannot see what happens behind closed doors, so I don't know for a fact, none of them ever gave me the impression that they beat their wives.
His older sister wasn't fully "Americanized" and loved their culture, religion and traditions. She was excited to be married and welcomed wearing a hijab.
He also ended up marrying another Arab Muslim. I don't think it was a matter of guilt, but more of finding that "mirror image".

That's fine if you don't have a desire in being with an Arab and/or Muslim. Nothing wrong with it at all. I just hate to see anyone judged based off of actions of others.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 34

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:51:20 AM

Greta75

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quote:

They were all wonderful people who treated me very kindly and were a loving family.

Just because they believe in wife beating doesn't mean they are incapable of giving good hospitality and being nice to others. Many people who support causes that I am against are nice to me.

(in reply to theshytype)

Post #: 35

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 7:56:40 AM

theshytype

Posts: 1600
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It surprises me that someone so trusting of strangers in parking lots would be so untrusting of people having a specific religion.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 36

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 8:04:13 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype
It surprises me that someone so trusting of strangers in parking lots would be so untrusting of people having a specific religion.

Because I think religion is evil. So why would I trust anyone who supports evil? And I've met too many Muslim men who tried to tell me the beating is the last resort, like that makes it more reasonable. And it would be rarely used, har har har, like that would make me feel safe. I'm pretty blunt with Muslim men why I will not date them, so I usually do end up having conversations with them about this wife beating clause. And their assurances usually freaks me out even more!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/28/2014 8:08:19 AM >

(in reply to theshytype)

Post #: 37

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 8:13:40 AM

LadyMondenschein

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Joined: 12/1/2009
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Hey greta,
My guy was born and grew up in Saudi Arabia, and yes, there are some there that still have that close minded thinking that women can't have their own minds and exist for the pleasure of the man..but there are also a lot of forward thinking Arabs. Who don't believe that shit. Look at how many of the christian sects beat their wives, and use 'em as baby machines. And even people like yourself who think that religion is evil, commit heinous crimes. Quelle surprise? Pas.
I trust him 100%, implicitly, with my life. No harm will ever befall me. Not on his watch. And I'll do my damndest to make sure to protect him as well.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 38

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 8:15:09 AM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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I see is this way. There are super nice guys I know, who will be willing to pay for human trafficked whores, but they are super nice, they treat their wives well, they treat their children well, they are helpful, wonderful, great to everyone around them.
1) You could ignore they support a despicable trade, because they have been flawless in all other areas
2) You could get upset with them, like me, despite them being flawless in everything else

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 39

RE: Do descriptors such as white (or black), make a per... - 2/28/2014 8:19:37 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

My guy was born and grew up in Saudi Arabia

That totally explains why he cannot give up completely. And the fact that you are the one who MUST change your religion for him. And he can't do it for you. Typical Muslim. That is another example of them being so against religious freedom, if you marry a Muslim, you MUST convert to their religion. Sorry. But you love him, so you choose to change religion. But I think it's absolutely against freedom of religion to have to do that.

In my country, if a christian and a muslim are inlove for example. They are screwed! The christian cannot convert to muslim, and the muslim is not required to convert to Christianity to marry her, but he is not allowed to marry a christian. So as long as the christian refused to convert, she cannot marry her muslim guy. It's horrible!! Islam is also an obstacle to love!

The non-muslim will ALWAYS have to be the one who gets forced into Islam, just to be with his or her love.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/28/2014 8:23:45 AM >

(in reply to LadyMondenschein)

Post #: 40

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