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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/18/2014 2:33:36 PM   
Blonderfluff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

hand wound in hair, pulling her head back as she's face down, teeth latched into the neck... YUM! Dragged to the edge of the bed, legs over my shoulders, her wrists tight in my hands, pulled into me hard, rampage MONSTER! Dress ripped from her as she's hanging laundry on the line, tackled, BANGED THE FUCK OUT RIGHT THERE, RIGHT NOW!


I still call that vanilla sex. (I know it isn't according to the OPs definition).

I need toys for sex not to register as vanilla. The above is just rough vanilla sex to me.

The HELL it is!!

WEG

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/18/2014 2:42:01 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

hand wound in hair, pulling her head back as she's face down, teeth latched into the neck... YUM! Dragged to the edge of the bed, legs over my shoulders, her wrists tight in my hands, pulled into me hard, rampage MONSTER! Dress ripped from her as she's hanging laundry on the line, tackled, BANGED THE FUCK OUT RIGHT THERE, RIGHT NOW!


I still call that vanilla sex. (I know it isn't according to the OPs definition).

I need toys for sex not to register as vanilla. The above is just rough vanilla sex to me.

The HELL it is!!

WEG


It is to me.

Djeeze... not saying there is anything wrong with rough vanilla sex... hell I love rough vanilla sex. But rough vanilla sex ain't the same as kinky sex to me.

No toys = no kink as far as how it registers on my 'gets the juices flowing' radar...

_____________________________

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I am the dirt you created
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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/18/2014 7:07:21 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

hand wound in hair, pulling her head back as she's face down, teeth latched into the neck... YUM! Dragged to the edge of the bed, legs over my shoulders, her wrists tight in my hands, pulled into me hard, rampage MONSTER! Dress ripped from her as she's hanging laundry on the line, tackled, BANGED THE FUCK OUT RIGHT THERE, RIGHT NOW!

I still call that vanilla sex. (I know it isn't according to the OPs definition).

I need toys for sex not to register as vanilla. The above is just rough vanilla sex to me.

Djeeze... not saying there is anything wrong with rough vanilla sex... hell I love rough vanilla sex. But rough vanilla sex ain't the same as kinky sex to me.

No toys = no kink as far as how it registers on my 'gets the juices flowing' radar...

That's how I see it also as vanilla sex, other than toys not being required for kink. Vanilla doesn't mean missionary-position coitus only, or a limited number of sexual positions, or lack of passion and animalistic lust. If you can find a vanilla lover who doesn't have a bunch of sexual hang-ups, there are all kinds of stuff I don't consider to be BDSM.

IMO for example, facesitting is not kinky BDSM. Neither is 69. They're just another position for doing oral. Now, if I have my man tied to the bed and facesitting is a part of it, it's the restraint part that gets into light bondage. (Queening is more forceful, sometimes incorporating breath play.)

IMO non-rough anal-receiving is vanilla sex--maybe kinky vanilla but not BDSM. When it's the male who receives anal (beyond digitally), that's where I see the demarcation point.

Perhaps I have a more liberal attitude, but my partner performing rimming isn't necessarily BDSM to me, as long as it hasn't crossed over into ass worship. Kinky vanilla, yes. As long as I'm not being fetishized or objectified (as with a foot fetishist who's into more than simply foot massage, some kisses & licks), I don't consider it BDSM. Not even a short, light spanking. It's what lovers who are into one another do, sharing acts of devotional intimacy together or adding (non-BDSM) spice to their sex life.

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 5:00:18 AM   
AlexisANew


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Status: offline 		I also agree with a lot of what UllrsIshtar says. As I already said, before this lifestyle my 'vanilla' sex life was incredibly kinky, incredibly hot and certainly not what many people here think 'vanilla' is and that's why we still regularly have vanilla sex. I don't however, believe we need tools to make it into a BDSM act.

You mentioned face sitting FieryOpal. Face sitting from a dominant woman could be, gripping his head in her thighs and suffocating him until he's desperate for breath. Slapping a face or a cock, sticking a forefinger down his throat till he gags, standing on his balls isn't vanilla and neither is pinching his nipples so hard he begs for mercy or whispering in his ear, 'your going to do exactly as I tell you aren't you?' Toys just compliment an extension of the hands and the voice but I don't think we need them to create a BDSM act.

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 6:05:19 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexisANew

I also agree with a lot of what UllrsIshtar says. As I already said, before this lifestyle my 'vanilla' sex life was incredibly kinky, incredibly hot and certainly not what many people here think 'vanilla' is and that's why we still regularly have vanilla sex. I don't however, believe we need tools to make it into a BDSM act.

You mentioned face sitting FieryOpal. Face sitting from a dominant woman could be, gripping his head in her thighs and suffocating him until he's desperate for breath. Slapping a face or a cock, sticking a forefinger down his throat till he gags, standing on his balls isn't vanilla and neither is pinching his nipples so hard he begs for mercy or whispering in his ear, 'your going to do exactly as I tell you aren't you?' Toys just compliment an extension of the hands and the voice but I don't think we need them to create a BDSM act.

I didn't bring in the degree of dominance or aggressiveness displayed in making a distinction between the many flavors of vanilla sex and BDSM. [silly mode] French vanilla could represent oral sex; vanilla Greek yogurt...well, you get the gist of it. [/silly mode] Then it would have necessitated my making a distinction between D/s and BDSM, which get lumped together very often. I agree with what you're saying, that elements of D/s take us beyond the vanilla sex realm, depending on how sexual interactions *play* out.

Specifically regarding face-sitting. Done aggressively and/or with "force" makes it an act of dominance. However, even in a vanilla-ish capacity, once aroused I can be quite aggressive, but I didn't require a sub partner under ordinary circumstances, just one who found that quality sexually appealing. By the same token, there are vanilla men who can find a woman to facefuck in an aggressive manner, but that doesn't mean they were engaging in BDSM. Once you start getting into impact play (beyond a playful spanking), and other forms of unconventionally ritualistic sexual behavior, that's when that line gets crossed in my mind. Others draw that line in a different place, consensually I would hope.

So circling back to what ExiledTyrant was saying. Impromptu rough-ish sex doesn't necessarily make for BDSM. "Forced" sex or a D/s dynamic already in place is what creates an atmosphere conducive to engaging in BDSM; but there are D/s couples who choose not to, which is their prerogative, of course.

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 6:22:07 AM   
FightingChains


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexisANew
You mentioned face sitting FieryOpal. Face sitting from a dominant woman could be, gripping his head in her thighs and suffocating him until he's desperate for breath. Slapping a face or a cock, sticking a forefinger down his throat till he gags, standing on his balls isn't vanilla and neither is pinching his nipples so hard he begs for mercy or whispering in his ear, 'your going to do exactly as I tell you aren't you?' Toys just compliment an extension of the hands and the voice but I don't think we need them to create a BDSM act.

I didn't bring in the degree of dominance or aggressiveness displayed in making a distinction between the many flavors of vanilla sex and BDSM. [silly mode] French vanilla could represent oral sex; vanilla Greek yogurt...well, you get the gist of it. [/silly mode] Then it would have necessitated my making a distinction between D/s and BDSM, which get lumped together very often. I agree with what you're saying, that elements of D/s take us beyond the vanilla sex realm, depending on how sexual interactions *play* out.


I'm a little confused where you see the D/s in that first quote, FieryOpal, rather than BDSM?

Nothing in that scene spoke to me of a dominant relationship, so much as just dominant "top" activity.


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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 6:31:39 AM   
AlexisANew


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

So circling back to what ExiledTyrant was saying. Impromptu rough-ish sex doesn't necessarily make for BDSM. "Forced" sex or a D/s dynamic already in place is what creates an atmosphere conducive to engaging in BDSM; but there are D/s couples who choose not to, which is their prerogative, of course.


I agree, my sex has always been a little on the rough side but like you say, when that's done with a vanilla partner, its merely a bit of rough and tumble. In fact, be as rough as you like with some people but the moment you pull the cuffs out or a gag, it immediately (in their eyes) moves into a whole new realm and one they possibly won't feel comfortable with.

The initial question was, 'do we ever engage in vanilla sex' and that question was asked within a BDSM group. My question I suppose is, what is vanilla sex? how do we define between the two? and so my answers are within the realms of BDSM.. ie my partner and myself practice BDSM but not all the time.

This isn't for you FieryOpal but just a general observation.

One of the things I've noticed over the years is this big divide the BDSM scene try and create between vanilla and 'us'. That if your not throwing a whip or electrocuting someone's nether regions, your some boring fuck that has sex in the dark in the missionary position. Do people who think like this really believe there's no kinky sex beyond the realms of BDSM? What about swingers? size queens? water sports? dogging? voyeurism? and that's not even breaking into the huge amount of fetishes that are unrelated to BDSM. We are but a tiny fraction of the big bold kinky world!.




< Message edited by AlexisANew -- 3/19/2014 6:32:40 AM >

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 6:43:59 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexisANew

You mentioned face sitting FieryOpal. Face sitting from a dominant woman could be, gripping his head in her thighs and suffocating him until he's desperate for breath. Slapping a face or a cock, sticking a forefinger down his throat till he gags, standing on his balls isn't vanilla and neither is pinching his nipples so hard he begs for mercy or whispering in his ear, 'your going to do exactly as I tell you aren't you?' Toys just compliment an extension of the hands and the voice but I don't think we need them to create a BDSM act.

I'm a little confused where you see the D/s in that first quote, FieryOpal, rather than BDSM?

Nothing in that scene spoke to me of a dominant relationship, so much as just dominant "top" activity.


It could be enacted as a Top/bottom BDSM activity, but the relationship dynamic itself is of a Domme/sub nature. At least that was my understanding. Normally an uncollared male sub doesn't offer his submission to just anyone to slap his face or his cock, play with his nipples, or order him around like a sex slave-boytoy. He may have a specific CBT activity, like a clothespin zipper or trampling, where he'll get Topped outside of a D/s relationship. But then we start getting into sado-masochism, and with that territory, anything goes.

Ultimately, whoever is in charge of and controls the scene is the Dominant one. S/he could be service Topped by her/his submissive, for example, but that doesn't negate under whose authority this is being done.

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There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 6:49:23 AM   
FightingChains


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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 7:08:02 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

The reason I ask is that I personally am pretty heavily "dominated" and demanded, ordered, obey, and all those activities and the top is definitely in control, but I am a switch like pg4g and do the same in reverse, and don't have any dynamic outside the bedroom. Complete equals. I don't consider this D/s at all, but the DS within BDSM. Temporary dominance and submission. I would have said D/s is outside the bedroom, in the relationship, and I saw no evidence of that.

Understood. Yes, there can be bedroom D/s where one is a bedroom Dominant and a bedroom submissive. This wouldn't be considered TPE, where blanket (no pun intended) consent is given within pre-established limits on a 24/7 basis. I suppose if you're a switch, that wouldn't apply regardless, and more emphasis is placed on who's doing the Topping/bottoming during any given BDSM scene. Within the purview of vanilla sex, it would be whose turn is it to be active-giver or receiver.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 7:21:37 AM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

The reason I ask is that I personally am pretty heavily "dominated" and demanded, ordered, obey, and all those activities and the top is definitely in control, but I am a switch like pg4g and do the same in reverse, and don't have any dynamic outside the bedroom. Complete equals. I don't consider this D/s at all, but the DS within BDSM. Temporary dominance and submission. I would have said D/s is outside the bedroom, in the relationship, and I saw no evidence of that.


I really don't think that is quite as rare as you think, even in most relationships where there is D/s outside of the bedroom, it's still pretty much partners or equals, in the sense that each partner always can say "This isn't working for me anymore" and can just leave.

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 7:23:21 AM   
FightingChains


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Understood. Yes, there can be bedroom D/s where one is a bedroom Dominant and a bedroom submissive. This wouldn't be considered TPE, where blanket (no pun intended) consent is given within pre-established limits on a 24/7 basis. I suppose if you're a switch, that wouldn't apply regardless, and more emphasis is placed on who's doing the Topping/bottoming during any given BDSM scene. Within the purview of vanilla sex, it would be whose turn is it to be active-giver or receiver.


Yeah, I just thought it was kind of interesting...

D/s is talked about like it's not part of BDSM but it's an element: Bondage and Discipline, Dominance Submission, sadism and masochism. How (or whether) you choose to implement D/s (bedroom only, switch, tpe for the relationship, service topping and topping from the bottom) would all fall within the banner of a certain kink or difference in our personalities. I suppose I've heard people talk about it as a separate thing, and it's not, is it? Is that because BDSM is just a shorthand for Play? Lots of confusion for me considering the acronym doesn't match how people use it. Sorry.

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 7:41:20 AM   
ExiledTyrant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

Ok, this question is a little awkward and personal, so feel free not to answer.

Does anyone here have vanilla, no BDSM, no D/s sex with your partner? Just pure enjoyment and contentment without any of the kink or dominance structure there? I know most of the people here are heavily kinky and/or D/s, but does anyone still do vanilla at times, and if so, why?


Well, this is certainly splintering off into infinitesimal directions. Naturally, everyone is going to quantify or qualify it by their own perception, so I will reiterate where I am coming from in regards to the OP.

Vanilla Sex: Sometimes. It does require me being in an odd and very affection place. A number of things have to fall in place to bring me out of the primal nature that often drives me, and move me into the warm fuzzy place of a Hollywood Romance scene. In regards to the OP, it does happen.

D/s sex: More often than not. I control all aspects of the sex, it's mine, I take it, whenever and wherever I want it, and do what I want with it. It is usually rough, aggressive, and with lots of man handling; fuck meat.

B&D: Pretty integral with sex. I am a fan of restraints, and that is usually my hands; Pinning appendages, grabbed around the throat and pinned to the wall, joint locks/manipulation (martial arts are diverse). Ropes, cuffs, manacles, sheets, shirts, pants, velcro, zip ties, etc. Using the clothes I either pulled off (or most likely) ripped off you to bind you, is more exciting to me.

S&M:
I pull hair: Winding my hand in the length of it, securing my fingers at the nape of your neck, and I do not care if it makes you uncomfortable or hurts you, your struggles, moans, whimpers, and most of all that "free fall" into submission when you're caught, go ridged, and slack against that control is what I am after. Protest and I will give you a meat gag. That's my Sado, enduring it is your Maso.

Biting: You're a fucking chew toy, neck, breasts, ass, and any other part that I just want to bite. I won't tear off a piece, I'm not into property damage, but you will be well and thoroughly bitten and gnawed upon. The pressure and brutality of the bite will be in balance with your Maso, but YOU ARE GETTING CHEWED ON.

Clawing: Every inch of you, every bit of fucking yummy, sweaty, supple, delicious flesh will feel my INTENSE affection and it will leave a mark.

Toys: That is just house play for me, something to delve into on a rainy day. The only toy I need for vanilla, D/s, or BDSM is you. It will leave a mark, it will leave a lasting impression, but in the end, it wasn't about you, it was all about me.

Now, allow me to make the most important point about me: I am relationship orientated, am old enough and experienced enough to understand the impact the above has on someone. The above comes into play only in a dynamic, the only girl(s) that is/are getting all of that, is the one(s) that will be in an LTR with me. I will only have an intimate relationship with someone that I am considering for an LTR... because I'm a prick like that.

Jus sayin
Exiled

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 7:43:30 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Understood. Yes, there can be bedroom D/s where one is a bedroom Dominant and a bedroom submissive. This wouldn't be considered TPE, where blanket (no pun intended) consent is given within pre-established limits on a 24/7 basis. I suppose if you're a switch, that wouldn't apply regardless, and more emphasis is placed on who's doing the Topping/bottoming during any given BDSM scene. Within the purview of vanilla sex, it would be whose turn is it to be active-giver or receiver.

Yeah, I just thought it was kind of interesting...

D/s is talked about like it's not part of BDSM but it's an element: Bondage and Discipline, Dominance Submission, sadism and masochism. How (or whether) you choose to implement D/s (bedroom only, switch, tpe for the relationship, service topping and topping from the bottom) would all fall within the banner of a certain kink or difference in our personalities. I suppose I've heard people talk about it as a separate thing, and it's not, is it? Is that because BDSM is just a shorthand for Play? Lots of confusion for me considering the acronym doesn't match how people use it. Sorry.

Well it really isn't part and parcel, and they (D/s-M/s, BDSM) are mutually exclusive. BDSM play partners may choose to Top/bottom where the bottom doesn't identify as a submissive whatsoever. Once the scene, and aftercare, is over they go their separate ways. A Master-Mistress, on the other hand, requires ownership & submission but may never engage in any BDSM activities. Thus the separation, where fetishes and/or kinks don't enter the picture within those relationship dynamics. There are non-sexual, non-play (rare, but these do exist) service submissives who just want to be dominated, and Dominants who just want to own someone to order around for practical considerations.

Now with sado-masochism, D/s can be absent from that, and there are even masochistic Dominants and sadistic submissives. Here the BDSM Topping/bottoming activities are reversed. It can get confusing, or rather complex, but it boils down to individual preferences and then finding a match compatibility-wise.

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 7:54:58 AM   
FightingChains


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Now with sado-masochism, D/s can be absent from that, and there are even masochistic Dominants and sadistic submissives. Here the BDSM Topping/bottoming activities are reversed. It can get confusing, or rather complex, but it boils down to individual preferences and then finding a match compatibility-wise.


Ok I top, as in dominate a partner, sadistically, and I bottom, submitting to a partner, masochistically, and I dominate a partner telling him to hurt me, and I submit to a partner who wants me to hurt him. Nothing outside the bedroom. What am I? An S/M switch? Man these labels do my head in...

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 3/19/2014 8:22:25 AM >

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 9:29:19 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g
Does anyone here have vanilla, no BDSM, no D/s sex with your partner? Just pure enjoyment and contentment without any of the kink or dominance structure there? I know most of the people here are heavily kinky and/or D/s, but does anyone still do vanilla at times, and if so, why?

I guess for us there is no "bondage", "discipline", "sadism" or "masochism". There is generally a theme of me being dominant and her being submissive which means yeah, I get a blow job when I want it. Honestly though, while I'm perfectly willing to boss Carol around in pretty much every other area of life including a whole ton of "no fly zones" common to BDSM limits sexuality remains a problem for me. I'd say our sex is generally 50/50-ish.

In the bigger picture what we enjoy about sex is the sex part. Neither of us needs anything more than "lots of my skin touching lots of her skin" for it to be rewarding.

We do this because it's how we are. The better question is "why do I post here?" (answer, I find overlap on the D/s part and I like learning about the actual breadth of human behavior in general).

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 9:39:48 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains
Ok I top, as in dominate a partner, sadistically, and I bottom, submitting to a partner, masochistically, and I dominate a partner telling him to hurt me, and I submit to a partner who wants me to hurt him. Nothing outside the bedroom. What am I? An S/M switch? Man these labels do my head in...


I'd say yes, you're a sadomasochistic switch. Or just greedy, lol.

Here, it's grown over the years into a TPE which means he can tie me up and spank me even if I'm not in the mood. He has been known to come upon me leaning over the bed, folding clean laundry, push me down and take what he wants. But he's just as likely after a long, rough day to ask if I'm in the mood or if I'm falling asleep on my feet.

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 9:49:31 AM   
AlexisANew


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Status: offline 		FightingChains, love the name btw!, you don't have to define who you are to anyone. Its more simple to call you and your partner 'switch' and if people can't get their heard round your dynamic, it doesn't matter, so long as you are happy with how things are. If you start looking into the D/s side of things and you obviously do D/s because you specifically said 'Dominate' and you specifically said 'submit', you are going to get all sorts of flack from those who consider themselves 'purists'. So long as you enjoy and embrace what your doing, that's really all that matters.


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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 11:07:36 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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What I find most interesting in this thread is the total lack of any consensus as to what is kinky and what is vanilla, even in a group of established and sometimes purist kinksters. Makes me feel better that I can't define it for myself, other than knowing that vanilla sex leaves me cold.

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RE: Vanilla Sex? - 3/19/2014 11:52:57 AM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexisANew

That if your not throwing a whip or electrocuting someone's nether regions, your some boring fuck that has sex in the dark in the missionary position. Do people who think like this really believe there's no kinky sex beyond the realms of BDSM? What about swingers? size queens? water sports? dogging? voyeurism? and that's not even breaking into the huge amount of fetishes that are unrelated to BDSM. We are but a tiny fraction of the big bold kinky world!.



I don't think non-BDSM sex is necessarily boring. And it sure as fuck can be kinky for the people involved if they're into it.

However, as I've gotten older (and have gotten disappointed several times... for looooooooong periods of time, in part due to not clearly defining what I want and need) I've gotten more selfish.

And to me, BDSM is an integral part of my sexuality. To the point that I could easily go without having any non-BDSM sexual contact ever again and I wouldn't miss it.
And to me, BDSM requires toys.

Sure, have rough sex with me, hold me down and slap me around a little if it's what gets you off. Pull me over your knee and give me a spanking, telling me I'm not allowed to get up if it's what gets you going. Hell lets go swinging if it's an interest of yours, and watch me have a threesome with a this young hot couple. If I love ya and wanna please you I'll play along.

BUT... none of it gets *me* off.
Because none of registers as kinky *to me*. And none of it ticks of the things that get *me* going. I don't feel dominated when I'm pulled over somebody's knee and spanked after being told to stay there. I just don't. On a good day, I'll feel happy about making him happy. On a bad day I'll just plainly feel annoyed that we're doing yet another thing to get him off with me getting nothing. What it doesn't do... ever... is turn me on.

There are VERY few things a Top/Dom can do that don't involve toys that get me going, so for me it's just easier to help them understand what I want and need to pose that 'no toys = no kink'.


_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to AlexisANew)
Profile   Post #: 80
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