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RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 3:11:52 PM   
kittysbell


Posts: 32
Joined: 10/10/2011
Status: offline 		an really like it or not those oldschool scripts are still alive today, the basic premise of feminant or masculine behavior stems from them. oh i took a gender studies course,back when i failed college saving an opera.i know the gender binarys constricting to all sexes,but to be percieved as my actual sex makes it something worth delving into. taking from that what i will at a later date and applying it to how i hold myself in this world.just like you did when you were raised under the current state of the expected gender role you unwittingly adher. if your my age, your mother perhaps was from the 50s,your friends parents were from that age as well,so you did get the same training im looking for.

not that we all cant transgress gender norms and still be accepted as our sex,"girls can do anything,guys can do better".im just looking for those teachers most everyone else had since birth. overcompensated surely.

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 4:08:25 PM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		Please understand that I was once very close to a lady named Stella. We spent a great deal of time together, as our situations allowed us that time. Things changed, but I will always love Stella and she is well known around here. In fact, I wish she were here today and could talk to you. She would be saying a great deal that has been said by others, but from a place you would need to see because she has been through all you have been through. Once a known writer of plays in one country, she had to flee that country for her own safety once she came out. She spent time homeless. She went on, she healed of the anger that you are infused with. She knew that one must get through all the typical stuff one goes through feeling different and as if their body has betrayed them and how all life and people betray them too.

I watched her suffer. Sat by while she cried at the abuse she suffered and then got back up and continued on. What a will to live and live as well as she could! Once, she was attacked... I won't go into details. My heart broke for her. I could do little because she wasn't anywhere close. I spoke out for her, couldn't give her what she needed, because I too had my life issues. I can remember shopping for her. I told the sales woman... this is what happened, I am trying to send a care package that will cheer her up. Besides the attack, the hormones she had to take were giving her hell and risking her health. Rejection was constant and so were those that tried to play her in relationships. It wasn't any more than what happened with me with men trying to play me... but to her... it was much bigger a deal because of where she was coming from.

I sent her gold earrings, a pretty shawl type cover up just like one of mine, a purse, music, candles and things to give her a nice calm evening with her pretties. I couldn't make anything better other than that and loving her.

I am not sure that I could do the same with you. You are too angry and self indulged in your focus that all you can see is how you have been wounded, cheated in life and under valued. Let me tell you... it isn't gender issues that cause this. I have been cheated in life, treated like shit and have lost everything and every one in my life other than a few select friends. Gender issues did not cause my troubles, but that doesn't mean that my troubles were any less than your own. You see, I was seen only as a sexual object my whole life, as I was an oddity of another kind. I was attacked from age seven until a teenager and when I say attacked I am saying groups of mostly boys chasing me, taking my clothes off and doing things they should have gone to jail for. They learned that if they came at me a few at a time, I could kick their ass and there are men today walking around with scars from me. They then learned that if they came at me with more than four... they could get me and have their way with me. I had no protections not even my family. So yeah... I get what you live through to some degree. What you don't get is this.

At twelve I told myself that they were the bad guys and I was not. I would not let those bad guys win and change me. I would win! I would not let them make me a victim and I fought with all I had, no support from anyone. Once when attacked by a group of twelve girls who had harassed me for over a year over what the boys were doing, I had had enough. I was a very fast runner... Olympic paced runner in fact. I stood, they ran... I ran the other direction and in the time it took them to take the block, I was around the block waiting for them around the corner of a building and as each came around that corner, I took them out with one punch. Twelve girls lying all over the ground. I knew the police were coming and stood there to await my punishment.

I will never forget his face when he saw those girls in different stages of coming out of it. He looked at me, the tiny girl I was and said:
"You did all this?"

"Yes, sir I did." He and my father laughed about it later, but I was told never to do it again. I would have done it again, but no one wanted to mess with me after that.

You need to stand up... get through the anger and the feeling as a victim and stand up for exactly who you are and wish to be and stop with the negatives that will keep you from gaining any ground in this life.

First lesson. None of us can parent you as a girl would have been trained in the fifties. We can share with you how it was done... but it was just as dishonest much of the time as finding fault with ourselves and beating ourselves and others up is.

Your first lesson besides what I hope the above will do... but have little faith that it will do much, though I have exposed a great deal I wouldn't normally... in hopes it might help... is that no mother would allow her daughter to stomp around angrily taking out her frustrations on others. Be a lady! Stop with the attitude and correct yourself and show some social niceties and control yourself. No other lesson will help you become more a lady than acting like one.

< Message edited by Rawni -- 3/12/2014 4:10:22 PM >

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 4:38:55 PM   
FeralFoxy


Posts: 82
Joined: 3/8/2014
Status: offline 		Lady Constanze, I respectfully disagree on the gatekeeping issue. By the time most of us reach the surgery stage, we've been planning it for years. We have spent time researching online, agonizing over our presentation, slowly coming out to family and friends, trying (often unsuccessfully) to pass as our gender, and desperately seeking both the source and the funding for medical treatment. Do people have transition regret? I'm sure it has happened. Should that rare occurance be justification for preventing thousands of trans people from transitioning when and how they need to? Absolutely not.

For trans people who are going from one end of the gender binary to the other, the therapy requirement is an annoyance, a roadblock, and possibly traumatic. For those of us who do not fit the binary, it's a nightmare that never seems to end. Thank the Gods for informed consent treatment, at every stage of the process.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 5:16:36 PM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rawni
No other lesson will help you become more a lady than acting like one.


This is a pearl.




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What you permit, you promote.

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RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 5:32:16 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FeralFoxy

Lady Constanze, I respectfully disagree on the gatekeeping issue. By the time most of us reach the surgery stage, we've been planning it for years. We have spent time researching online, agonizing over our presentation, slowly coming out to family and friends, trying (often unsuccessfully) to pass as our gender, and desperately seeking both the source and the funding for medical treatment. Do people have transition regret? I'm sure it has happened. Should that rare occurance be justification for preventing thousands of trans people from transitioning when and how they need to? Absolutely not.

For trans people who are going from one end of the gender binary to the other, the therapy requirement is an annoyance, a roadblock, and possibly traumatic. For those of us who do not fit the binary, it's a nightmare that never seems to end. Thank the Gods for informed consent treatment, at every stage of the process.



I don't know how it works where you are, I'm talking about Europe and I'm everything but against making it as easy as possible (as I said, knew people who went through it, among them one who stopped in the middle of hormone therapy and went back to male, which was a real problem), but there is the whole bureaucratic hassle that seems to be actually worse than getting the actual medical care. For example in most European countries they recognize that there are people who have been born into the wrong gender, they are trying to solve it as early as possibly now to stop complications with hormones (in some cases - the most successful ones even before puberty hits), just to my knowledge the whole changing of the actual paperwork, i.e. that everything is reissued with the new name fitting the gender, that seems to be the biggest roadblock.

In no way was I suggesting that I approve of making it harder.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to FeralFoxy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 6:51:19 PM   
FeralFoxy


Posts: 82
Joined: 3/8/2014
Status: offline 		Understood. Unfortunately, here in the U.S., many people do approve of making it harder, or taking away the right to transition completely.


Edited to remove a rogue "v".

< Message edited by FeralFoxy -- 3/12/2014 6:52:03 PM >

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RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 7:08:00 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittysbell

wheres a young 30 something girl overcoming the debilitating condition of transex find a living situation wher she can learn all the oldschool social roles that were constraining to her gender,so that she might know when shes beaking them? i wish to learn the skills of a housewife,to relish in the protection of such a role. to be cared for,taught like a daughter. navigating scripts,style,mannerism, all those things other girls are taught through emulation since birth.a catchup period to be done with this transitionary phase.forewarning: taking on such a project is not a lighthearted task,physical correction must always be the goal,and its costly.


WOW! Don't even......

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RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 7:19:28 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FeralFoxy

Understood. Unfortunately, here in the U.S., many people do approve of making it harder, or taking away the right to transition completely.


Edited to remove a rogue "v".


It's something that I just don't get, nobody would be against operating a hare lip to make the life of somebody afflicted with it easier, why trying to force somebody to live in a body they perceive as the wrong gender? Mind you what might have helped is that a German Olympic athlete went through gender reassignment and spoke quite publicly about the problems it caused him to be born female.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

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RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 7:28:31 PM   
kittysbell


Posts: 32
Joined: 10/10/2011
Status: offline 		i cant understand it either. from my perspective its malicious.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 7:52:01 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittysbell

i cant understand it either. from my perspective its malicious.


Understood, but the problem is that as long as you react with anger and lash out, you aren't making it easier for yourself and not harder for the people trying to stop you, they will use your anger to feel justified. Trust me, I do have a temper and I know how hard it is to keep it in check, that anger can mess up more for you than for them. Why don't you take Foxy up on the offer and just think about reaching your goals.

And I'm a bio femme, we seriously don't act like 50 household women anymore, if it's your think, it's cool, but if you think it will make you fit in better, not really, it will make you look like a caricature of a woman, last thing you want. Most T-girls are gorgeous, the only problem is that they often overdo it, trying to act like a 50's house wife would be overdoing it.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 10:18:24 PM   
kittysbell


Posts: 32
Joined: 10/10/2011
Status: offline 		thing is i am a "bio" female,as the conditions rooted in the fickleness biology. theres this constrained power women who practice etiquette hold,and im sure its through understanding and utilizing certain disadvantages to our advantage that that comes about. composure,is, what i seek.

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RE: 50s style household - 3/12/2014 10:47:34 PM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		Composure is learning to use disadvantages to create advantages?

Sounds like feminine trickery to me and very outdated as a survival tool for the fifties woman placed in a societal box. What disadvantages are you talking about?

Edit to add... Somehow I get this feeling that you are hoping to be the damsel in distress type victim that manipulates to work through obstacles. Projection like this, cannot be reasoned out because... its decades ago, non issues currently and well... playing a part to remedy a disadvantage.. is easily handled with honesty, communication and being fulling in reality in the current decade.

< Message edited by Rawni -- 3/12/2014 11:10:09 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: 50s style household - 3/13/2014 12:16:17 AM   
kittysbell


Posts: 32
Joined: 10/10/2011
Status: offline 		im refering to the strength of my grandmother,my "director",and a few of my friends. the "trickery" you speak of is social manipulation, the ability to sit quitly unpeturbed by the actions of anouther,an without a word,let them know their in the wrong. eventually coming to the conclusion you wanted on their own. dont underestimate the influence of a mother chiding her 6 yr old daughter not to spit.then realise i never had that,let alone anything else. im sure you will continue to see this topic as something decietfull, instead of the pain and aspirations of a girl called it.

(in reply to Rawni)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: 50s style household - 3/13/2014 1:20:22 AM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		I wouldn't have shared a part of my torment in life had I not noticed your pain. I just think you are trapped in that pain and need to release some of it somehow, look at the blessing you are just as you are and not need to manifest the social skills you think you will need until you have healed and are better down the path of where you are going in life.

How many women function is dishonest. I wouldn't be trying to reach that type of goal. They may have been forced into it, but there is no need to use those feminine skills of self protection or defense any longer. If it is needed, find different people to be around. You seem to be putting the cart before the horse. We need women out there that are strong, honest, forthright and not playing some game imposed by others or self.

What you speak of... silently getting your point across... how the hell is that done if the first person had no clue? That sure is a romantic way to look at things. Parents are different. A child may have been told not to do something and did it again. That is the only time when a silent look, glare or frown might work, unless they knew the expression well. I am sure you know how to do that... as that is a human thing.. not just a womanly thing.

You seem to have the type of woman in mind that you wish to be and all good there... have at it.. but if it is so clear in your mind... being intelligent and you are... you don't really need a teacher of the womanly arts... you seem to know them.

Sure... it can be rather romantic to think that a woman could use her power of feminine persuasion to right the ill's of society, but really... it isn't as big a deal as you're making it. You mentioned spitting. Not being taught and yet you know about it. I would take a wild guess and bet you know a lot more than you are presenting. People are people and until wounded people heal... their focus might be off a bit. First things first. Heal... transition if you can... connect with those that might know of ways to get that done faster.

As for the 'it' stuff. Really? After what I posted. Do I need to spell it out, how I was an oddity? Really? I do not believe that I should share that as I am over it, done with it and grew out of being such an oddity... but I do know being an 'it' to other people. It is when we become an 'it' in our own minds that we get into real trouble. I knew I was different... they damn well showed me that and just what they thought about it... but I will be damned if that was going to make me believe what they thought. I was a little girl. You are an adult and if you still carry the wounds, which you clearly have, that is where you really ought to be focusing on rather than dealing with what you think feminine issues are.

If you don't deal with it... how can you expect someone to save you from it and pay for it? To know the inner strengths of a woman... you pretty much need to walk the life and not all of us had teaching or anything at all handed to us just because we carried a pussy.

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RE: 50s style household - 3/13/2014 2:18:55 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		OP,

I, like the others are in favor of not making transition more difficult, howevr, your difficulties are in your perception.

While I certainly understand your need to transition, "life saving" would be something needed that you would die without, and not death by your own hands, which is the only danger in your situation.

I support the psychological component of transitioning because sometimes the problem may not be wanting to be a different gender than how born and therapy is how to make that determination. Frankly, while your need to transition is not necessarily in question, based on your ranting here, you are still in great need of continued therapy.

You are living, it seems, as though all your life issues would be resolved if you could simply complete your SRS. But that doesn't seem to be the only "issue" you have and while SRS could certainly improve your outlook, you will still be you, ie a very angry and unhappy person. Getting rid of that "grotesque" appendage between your legs is not going to resolve that.

We have had several transgendered people over the years along with Stell, who was quite and admirable woman, but it wasn't because she was a transgendered woman, but because as a PERSON, she had many admirable qualities. Currently we have another very knowledgeable and lovely woman her named Lauren, who perhaps will pop in to offer some advice.

But until you resolve your personal issues and anger, transition is not going to be the cure all you seem to be hoping for.

As to the "script" you are hoping to find, it simply doesn't exist. The qualites you seem to be searching for as "femine" simpy aren't. Cleaning, cooking, dressing appropriately aren't limited to women anymore. Some of the greatest chefs are men, household chores are no gender and fashion magazines can teach you all that. The idea that anyone should take you on as a "project" is delusional at best. It also speaks clearly of your own self image which needs work from a proffessional, not a partner.

I wish you luck, but hope you find relief in learning to accept yourself, not for your outward appearance, but for who youare and want to be as a person, which has little to do with gender.

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RE: 50s style household - 3/13/2014 5:58:30 AM   
FeralFoxy


Posts: 82
Joined: 3/8/2014
Status: offline 		LL, again I have to respectfully disagree on a couple points. Transition is life saving treatment. Google "trans day of remembrance" if you're interested in the exact numbers, but the murder rate amongst trans people, especially trans women, is very high. Being trans is very dangerous. And even if the danger is only from herself, in the form of suicide, that danger is still very real and present.

As for therapy making the determination of whether one is trans or not, that is the exact problem with people's thinking about us. Have you ever lived as a trans person? Have you struggled every day with your assigned gender, knowing it wasn't right? Have you fought with friends and family who think that you just need a good shrink? Have you had strangers insult you, spit on you, throw things at you, threaten you, beat you? Trans people go through those things on a regular basis. Have you had to face a therapist who questions you about your childhood, your sex life, what you like to wear, what activities you like to participate in, methodically searching for whatever doesn't fit the gender binary, so that they can declare you to not be trans? I've been through that twice. Transition regret is basically a myth. It happens, very rarely, but it is not justification for prolonging the hell that the rest of us live in every single day. We're not stupid or crazy, we fight long and hard for transition, and we don't need a paternalistic medical system to tell us that we're not capable of making our own decisions.

The op probably could use therapy (couldn't we all, for one reason or another) but not because her gender is in question, or because she needs someone to tell her that she is allowed to be female. She is female. Period.


< Message edited by FeralFoxy -- 3/13/2014 6:05:53 AM >

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RE: 50s style household - 3/13/2014 6:40:45 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittysbell

thing is i am a "bio" female,as the conditions rooted in the fickleness biology. theres this constrained power women who practice etiquette hold,and im sure its through understanding and utilizing certain disadvantages to our advantage that that comes about. composure,is, what i seek.



Look, I used bio not as an insult to you but that is what my TG friends usually used for me, when I couldn't understand something and asked, they usually came back with "You're bio, you don't have that issue", if it's the wrong term, I'm sorry, I can assure you that I meant no insult or disrespect. From what I've seen, what TG people go through, I'm not sure I would have the strength to cope with it.

I don't know if it helps you but one of my TG friends coped with her condition (after quite a struggle) by joking that she's the new and improved version of femininity, with some "extras", it really took the wind out of the sails of anybody who snarked at her, she did it in such a dignified manner, people liked her, not because of her gender, they liked her as a person, it helped a lot that she didn't pretend to be a parody of a woman, you know the femme fatale or the 50's housewife, she made no bones about her struggle, dressed feminine but not over the top. If in a very conservative area even the old staunchy guys (tweet jackets and all) would step up and tell anybody who tried to mess with her to take a hike (ever so politely "Would you mind stopping to bother the lady? I think this is not the right pub for you! Have a nice day!"), you know she was accepted. She's still living in the area, she's now working in a very upscale gastro-pub as 2nd manager. She didn't learn that by imitating 50's women.

Look, you are a woman, you happen to be a woman who was born with the wrong parts, it doesn't make you less of a woman, gender is more than what you have between your legs, it doesn't make you any less of a woman. What is up to you is what kind of woman you are, that's down to how you behave. People who treat you as less, it's their own ignorance and I would assume that you're far too dignified to want to associate with those idiots!

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: 50s style household - 3/13/2014 6:53:10 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittysbell

think a few took something wrong,or really i worded it wrong without thinking,lol .'physical correction' is refering to genital realignment surgery. though i dont mind a little "manhandling" and could see pinches or face slaps or something as a way to initially reinforce etiquette .

guess what i was trying to get at was a project,simply for doing good for another, so as to catch me up with all the social scripts helping me blend into the future without so much discrimination. realy it could be a request for motherly/older sister type of assistance. i assume most of the human animal is sex driven so i imagine only a man would enjoy the "fruits of his labor" providing the finacial ability to aquire life saving corrective surgery.

So basically, you're looking for a bank roll.

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: 50s style household - 3/13/2014 6:55:21 AM   
FeralFoxy


Posts: 82
Joined: 3/8/2014
Status: offline 		Lady C, the more generally accepted term is "cis" (pronounced sis), which means "the same as". A cis person's sex is the same as their gender. If you're not a trans person, you're a cis person.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: 50s style household - 3/13/2014 7:07:56 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FeralFoxy

Lady C, the more generally accepted term is "cis" (pronounced sis), which means "the same as". A cis person's sex is the same as their gender. If you're not a trans person, you're a cis person.


Thanks, I need to check out Sarah's schedule and visit her at work, so I can tell her that she's not PC when she calls me her fave bio-girl and that I will insist on being her fave cis-girl. Can't wait to see her face ;)

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to FeralFoxy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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