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RE: Ukraine - 3/17/2014 8:25:04 PM   
VerySincere


Posts: 44
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline
Been thinking that Putin is the second (or third, or fourth) coming of Stalin and Hitler .... for a number of years. He seems to have been building up the Russian Military ... talking ... and now makes his first conquest.

Smacks of Hitler during the 1930's ....

Myself, I don't blame Bush or Obama .... the real problem is the world doesn't have the will to try to take him down. (See 1930's example).


Been thinking that Putin financed this via Russian Natural Gas and Oil Shipments to Europe. Especially in the build up to our "Great Recession", when the theory the world has such a shortage of those products, drove prices really high.


Guess again ... with high prices, all of a sudden Canada and the USA have most of the worlds Oil and Gas Reserves. Way more than Middle East.

So the thought to solve the problem, without war is .....

1. Get Keystone Pipeline underway IMMEDIATELY.

2. Tax Breaks and speedy environmental permits for 5 - 10 new Oil Refineries ... and

3. Tax breaks to build Tankers to carry refined products to Europe ......


Yes it will take time to complete, but the very real threat of oil from other sources will mitigate Russian threats to cut off Europe from the products ... drive down their source of revenue and deplete them of cash with with to sustain their military.

And BTW ... a huge economic stimulus! LOL That will drive Hitler ... err ... Putin into the ground!








(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Ukraine - 3/17/2014 8:28:34 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL. And stupid gets thicker.

Curtis LeMay is dead, and thank the upright walking god that he is.

It was a joke, tail. Lighten up.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Ukraine - 3/17/2014 8:29:48 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		So, the keystone pipeline is gonna fix the Ukraine shit? color me skeptical.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to VerySincere)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Ukraine - 3/17/2014 8:40:34 PM   
VerySincere


Posts: 44
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline 		Don't blame you for being skeptical ...... but ask yourself

Putin (and his Russian Government) gets his (their) money from exactly what source?


And if the supply goes up the price goes down? Do I remember that correctly?




< Message edited by VerySincere -- 3/17/2014 8:42:28 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Ukraine - 3/17/2014 9:35:28 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VerySincere


Been thinking that Putin is the second (or third, or fourth) coming of Stalin and Hitler .... for a number of years. He seems to have been building up the Russian Military ... talking ... and now makes his first conquest.

Smacks of Hitler during the 1930's ....

Myself, I don't blame Bush or Obama .... the real problem is the world doesn't have the will to try to take him down. (See 1930's example).


I don't know if it's come to that just yet. The world is a much different place than it was in the 1930s, but we've had a cold war with Russia before. Thankfully, we didn't have to get into a shooting war with Russia back then, and hopefully, it won't be necessary now.

quote:


Been thinking that Putin financed this via Russian Natural Gas and Oil Shipments to Europe. Especially in the build up to our "Great Recession", when the theory the world has such a shortage of those products, drove prices really high.


Guess again ... with high prices, all of a sudden Canada and the USA have most of the worlds Oil and Gas Reserves. Way more than Middle East.

So the thought to solve the problem, without war is .....

1. Get Keystone Pipeline underway IMMEDIATELY.

2. Tax Breaks and speedy environmental permits for 5 - 10 new Oil Refineries ... and

3. Tax breaks to build Tankers to carry refined products to Europe ......


Yes it will take time to complete, but the very real threat of oil from other sources will mitigate Russian threats to cut off Europe from the products ... drive down their source of revenue and deplete them of cash with with to sustain their military.

And BTW ... a huge economic stimulus! LOL That will drive Hitler ... err ... Putin into the ground!


I think we should prepare for the worst, although it's hard to say what that would mean at the moment. NATO is a lot larger than it was back during the Cold War. The Warsaw Pact is gone. The wild card at this point is probably China. If they side with Putin, then the situation will likely escalate. If they side with the West, then there may be a chance a deal can be forged.

It also depends on how unified NATO might be. Even if Putin grabs Ukraine, he's got a semi-circle of NATO states in front of him, from Estonia to Turkey. Potentially, other former Soviet republics could jump in on either side.

Another crisis point could be Serbia, a traditional Russian ally. Then there's Cuba and North Korea. Not sure what they're going to do if things heat up between NATO and Russia. Japan could use this as an excuse to get the Kuril Islands back. Also, NATO includes a reunified Germany, which is something the Russians feared at the onset of the Cold War.

My sense is that Putin is not as crazy as Hitler was, but it's hard to say. But then, who else would be crazy enough to take on the Russians in their own backyard?

(in reply to VerySincere)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Ukraine - 3/17/2014 10:07:07 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VerySincere

Don't blame you for being skeptical ...... but ask yourself

Putin (and his Russian Government) gets his (their) money from exactly what source?


And if the supply goes up the price goes down? Do I remember that correctly?





Well, I know he has been hoarding gold for a very long time. So he is skimming bucks there, but most of their money is Oil and Gas, and they dont need the Crimea for that.

This aint an oil play. They pay about the same as us for gas. Way less than most of Europe. And if they up the price, it aint going to add too terrible much to their economy, they are not in debt like us.........so, given that, they are going into debt for an ideological deal, much like the nutsackers in Iraq. So.........no, the LaBrea Tarpits Conspiracy aint on the table here.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to VerySincere)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 4:30:10 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Bush was a moron when it came to Putin.

Straight up. IMO, Putin totally played Bush. I never believed the "looked into his soul" bullshit for a second. Once KGB, always KGB.


quote:


...11 people are denied travel permits to the US. Assets frozen.

I saw something about this the a couple of days ago. Apparently the strategy is to bust up the group of wealthy people feeding Putin money in an attempt to slow him down. I'll be surprised if it really amounts to anything though. Unfortunately. I think Putin's holding all the cards on Crimea and the West simply didn't see it coming.

Where's Curtis LeMay when you need him?





Well since every rightie said jack shit, THEN.......it doesn`t matter that all our cowards are throwing shrub under da`bus...NOW....


It also makes them look that much more cowardly today ,trying to bash the President for actually leading(world leading, for 2nd graders) and keeping us out of a war.


I recall when after shrub already got thousands of our soldiers killed for apparently nothing, even moderate republicans were telling him to get out of Iraq,shrub,like a 5 y/o, declared that he was "the decider" but couldn`t understand why no one else(accept his blood guzzling psychopath-fans) was listening.As if he had no clue what leadership was...thing he should just be followed......like putin or North Korea`s kim.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 5:00:52 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

The Ukrainian political analyst Pavlo Nuss shares this viewpoint: “On 17-18 March, regular troops of the Russian Federation will begin an invasion of Ukraine,”


As I write this it is 2 pm in Kiev on 18 March. As far as I know, no invasion has occurred. Someone must have changed the script and forgot to tell the Russians .......
........ or perhaps there was no script in the first place.


_____________________________



(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 8:36:59 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Al-Jazeera is reporting that Putin has signed an agreement with Crimea incorporating Crimea into Russia today. This would seem to complete the Russian takeover of Crimea.

While Putin declared he had no further military ambitions in Ukraine, there are serious fears that a repeat of the Crimean crisis might unfold shortly in parts of eastern Ukraine that also have a majority ethnic Russian population.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/18/2014 8:37:39 AM >

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 8:41:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We had better quit screwing around here in the US, and focus on infrastructure.  That is all.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 8:50:59 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

The Ukrainian political analyst Pavlo Nuss shares this viewpoint: “On 17-18 March, regular troops of the Russian Federation will begin an invasion of Ukraine,”


As I write this it is 2 pm in Kiev on 18 March. As far as I know, no invasion has occurred. Someone must have changed the script and forgot to tell the Russians .......
........ or perhaps there was no script in the first place.



Funny. The news sources I read said there are 18,000 Russian troops in Ukraine and that crimea is going to be annexed.

Where do you get your news - the NY Times?

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 9:00:22 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yet, no invasion of the Ukraine. Where do you get your news, from slobbering cretin network?



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 9:02:03 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yet, no invasion of the Ukraine. Where do you get your news, from slobbering cretin network?




News flash. Crimea *is* ukraine.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 9:14:10 AM   
Artisculation2


Posts: 47
Joined: 10/7/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yet, no invasion of the Ukraine. Where do you get your news, from slobbering cretin network?




News flash. Crimea *is* ukraine.



NEWSFLASH! Cuba is Cuba but the USA won't leave Guanatanamo Bay. Russia is basically doing the same in Ukraine.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 9:44:22 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yet, no invasion of the Ukraine. Where do you get your news, from slobbering cretin network?




News flash. Crimea *is* ukraine.


*newsflash* no, not really. No more than American Samoa is the US.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 10:12:07 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yet, no invasion of the Ukraine. Where do you get your news, from slobbering cretin network?




News flash. Crimea *is* ukraine.


*newsflash* no, not really. No more than American Samoa is the US.

The US leases GITMO in perpetuate. The Vienna convention on International treaties article 4 maintains that the US does have a lease despite the fact that CUBA has never cashed a single rent check. ([it] prohibits retroactive application of said Convention to extant treaties) The original was signed in 1903 and amended in 1934 which still governs the US leasehold.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 10:16:55 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yet, no invasion of the Ukraine. Where do you get your news, from slobbering cretin network?




News flash. Crimea *is* ukraine.


*newsflash* no, not really. No more than American Samoa is the US.

Samoa and Puerto Rico are unincorporated territories of the US, enjoy US protection and assistance, use the US dollar and are free to vote for statehood or declare their complete independence anytime. Neither has to date...done either.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 10:27:06 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		but the Ukraine has, situated similarly.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 11:18:05 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Ultimately the ruskies fucked themselves.....One of their number 1 export destinations is Europe.


The ruskie fuck-wits thought there would be no political/financial cost to using this monopoly as a weapon.


Every once of good will and effort to have normal normal and better relations with the west are now dog poop.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Ukraine - 3/18/2014 11:36:44 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Bush was a moron when it came to Putin.

Straight up. IMO, Putin totally played Bush. I never believed the "looked into his soul" bullshit for a second. Once KGB, always KGB.

quote:


...11 people are denied travel permits to the US. Assets frozen.

I saw something about this the a couple of days ago. Apparently the strategy is to bust up the group of wealthy people feeding Putin money in an attempt to slow him down. I'll be surprised if it really amounts to anything though. Unfortunately. I think Putin's holding all the cards on Crimea and the West simply didn't see it coming.

Where's Curtis LeMay when you need him?


Well since every rightie said jack shit, THEN.......it doesn`t matter that all our cowards are throwing shrub under da`bus...NOW....

It also makes them look that much more cowardly today ,trying to bash the President for actually leading(world leading, for 2nd graders) and keeping us out of a war.

I recall when after shrub already got thousands of our soldiers killed for apparently nothing, even moderate republicans were telling him to get out of Iraq,shrub,like a 5 y/o, declared that he was "the decider" but couldn`t understand why no one else(accept his blood guzzling psychopath-fans) was listening.As if he had no clue what leadership was...thing he should just be followed......like putin or North Korea`s kim.


Your view of politics is pathetically myopic.



_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 40
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