RE: Gun control in the U.K.

RE: Gun control in the U.K. (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 9:04:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Polite, the Vinnie Jones there listed, is that the actor Vinnie Jones? Yes Ron..... Vinnie had his gun license revocked after being convicted of assault. Ah, you saw the gravamen immediately. Like givin Cromwell axes to put over his mantle.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 9:17:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it. And yet I am assured that you (plural not singular) in no way claim to be superior. Education wise, technically most first world nations are by comparison. Militarily and prison wise the US is superior, but America is hardly the beacon of progress that it was decades ago. Another interesting non fact by the left. Quick. Name 10 of the outstanding universities in the world. You're crazy if you don't think at least 5 of them are in the US. Harvard. Mit Yale Princeton Cale Tech Univerity of Chicago Universtiy of Pennsylvania Georgia Tech. Also interesting that Britains homicide rates were lower before they passed the gun laws than after. So its right ridiculous to claim its because of guns now, isn't it. Or if you name Cambridge and Oxford (both pretty good Unis...........that is at least the top 30.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 1:02:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I addressed the slippery slope in post #185. If you interpret one way and I interpret another we are arguing semantics. Yet you can't seem to come up with one lousey thing in the OP, that was stated as a point of fact, that is not accurate. Go figure. We are hardly arguing semantics when others, as well as myself, have pointed out the OP is bullshit. It is interesting that the original posters hasnt returned to defend this crap. nor indeed supply a credible source. I clearly gave a link for your own congressional library, showing that both the hungerford and Dunblame massacres resulted in a change in the law demandaed by "We the people". I would have thought your own congressional library would have been a good enough source, even for the gun nuts, obviously it wasnt. If you are unable or unwilling to post valid links, even to back your clown claims let alone the OP, then thats your problem. But lets get it right, I have shown from a valid source that the 1903 Pistols act was more about raising money via indrect taxes, anyone could walk into a post office and obtain a gun license. The OP lists in chronological order the history of gun control legislation in the UK and the fact that it was easy to round up guns with registration lists. It didn't mention Hungerford and Dunblain. Ok, so what ? Where is the bullshit. No points of fact in there that can be refuted ?

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 1:33:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin The OP lists in chronological order the history of gun control legislation in the UK and the fact that it was easy to round up guns with registration lists. It didn't mention Hungerford and Dunblain. Ok, so what ? Where is the bullshit. No points of fact in there that can be refuted ? For me, the dates, acts and in general the facts he cites, aren't of much relevance. It's his slant that is. He wants to show how essential liberties have been eroded and how the government has clawed away power from the people to itself. I could use the facts of that piece of writing to cobble together an entirely different argument - but one which I think you'll agree is even nuttier than that of the writer. This is suggested by his lines, '"In 1919 the British government, in fear of communist insurgents and domestic and foreign anarchists, passed its first sweeping anti-gun laws (under the smokescreen of crime control) even though gun related crime was almost non existent in the England of the day. British subjects could now only buy a firearm if they could show "a good reason" for having one and the firearm certificate system that we have today (implemented and abused by police) was introduced." Going from that, how difficult would it be for me to start banging on about how all Americans who are in support of widespread gun ownership in the UK are actually in support of a communist revolution? The logic's all but there. That argument is almost bellowing to be made. The only reason it hasn't been made is that it happens to be bollocks. Like the slant of the writer himself, who ties gun ownership to freedom and the lack thereof to oppression.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 2:21:39 PM)
Peon Going from the paragraph you cited it certainly would be quite a stretch to say pro gunners in America favor communism in the UK as apposed to what's in the OP. In reallity it would actually be be quite the opposite. Now maybe the government was not in fear of communist insurgents and domestic and foreign anarchists. Maybe there was no smokescreen or gun crime was more prevalent. If you could show me that, it would certainly refute a point or points stated as fact. Sure the OP was written with a pro gun slant. I'll grant you that. I think the article is simply showing what can happen if gun owners don't remain viligent and how easy it is to confiscate registered guns.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 2:24:22 PM)
No more of a stretch than the asswipe in the OP, particularly since has been pointed out, no causality. I have shown direct prima facie evidence of the causality that nutsackers are trying to take our guns away.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 2:31:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I think the article is simply showing what can happen if gun owners don't remain viligent and how easy it is to confiscate registered guns. As peon stated, the slant was aimed directly at the notion that guns=freedom and sans guns=oppression. What we are saying, and emphasised, is that "we the people" demanded the retraction of guns to the populace and it wasn't a slippery slope at all.

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 2:58:49 PM)
quote: Sure the OP was written with a pro gun slant. I'll grant you that. I think the article is simply showing what can happen if gun owners don't remain viligent and how easy it is to confiscate registered guns. That's what the author consciously wanted to show. But what he showed to me, and to, I'd bet, most Brits, is that he's swallowed the bogus line that ownership of guns has any necessary connection with freedom. It does not. If it did, we Brits would be many times less free than Americans, because gun-ownership is many times smaller. Seriously, does anyone here want to argue that case? Even the most red-necked loon who has assiduously striven all his life to avoid learning single thing about non-US cultures?

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:15:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Sure the OP was written with a pro gun slant. I'll grant you that. I think the article is simply showing what can happen if gun owners don't remain viligent and how easy it is to confiscate registered guns. That's what the author consciously wanted to show. But what he showed to me, and to, I'd bet, most Brits, is that he's swallowed the bogus line that ownership of guns has any necessary connection with freedom. It does not. If it did, we Brits would be many times less free than Americans, because gun-ownership is many times smaller. Seriously, does anyone here want to argue that case? Even the most red-necked loon who has assiduously striven all his life to avoid learning single thing about non-US cultures? Sure, no connection with freedom from a UK perspective and as a red neck loon who does know something about other cultures I wouldn't want to argue the case. I get that, but certainly there is a connection here in the US.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:19:16 PM)
There is no connection here in the US. We bloody cut the English loose long ago. Their connection with us is arms length. We have permits to acquire here, we have permits to carry, we dont allow insane and youth to own pistols, drunks of course we do (we are america). That fuckin slippery slope has been going on for a hundred years or so? And nothing really changes except when the nutsackers try to take your guns away, as St. Wrinklemeat, Nixon, and other nutsackers have.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:22:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I think the article is simply showing what can happen if gun owners don't remain viligent and how easy it is to confiscate registered guns. As peon stated, the slant was aimed directly at the notion that guns=freedom and sans guns=oppression. What we are saying, and emphasised, is that "we the people" demanded the retraction of guns to the populace and it wasn't a slippery slope at all. The UK people demanded gun control. Yes I get it. But we're not exactly demanding it here. Ok, well some are demanding it and as far as I'm concerned I've drawn the proverbial line in the sand because I can see a slippery slope here in the US.

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:35:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin The UK people demanded gun control. Yes I get it. But we're not exactly demanding it here. Ok, well some are demanding it and as far as I'm concerned I've drawn the proverbial line in the sand because I can see a slippery slope here in the US. The truth is even worse than that. This is that the UK people don't much care about gun control. Guns just aren't important to us. They never have been.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:38:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin The UK people demanded gun control. Yes I get it. But we're not exactly demanding it here. Ok, well some are demanding it and as far as I'm concerned I've drawn the proverbial line in the sand because I can see a slippery slope here in the US. The truth is even worse than that. This is that the UK people don't much care about gun control. Guns just aren't important to us. They never have been. Ok, so tell me something I don't know[8D]

mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:40:49 PM)
Hugh Laurie was a comedian in England. Well, rather a punster, I suppose. He isn't an American, old House isn't.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:45:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin The UK people demanded gun control. Yes I get it. But we're not exactly demanding it here. Ok, well some are demanding it and as far as I'm concerned I've drawn the proverbial line in the sand because I can see a slippery slope here in the US. But the original post (with the link) that started the discussion was specifically aimed at the British and gun control being a slippery slope - hence the thread title. Right at the top of that article, it states "Voluntary servitude has consequences." then heads the article with "A Brief History of British Gun Control (or, How to Disarm the Law Abiding Populace by Stealth)". He ends up by saying - In 2009 talks with the British government were started to devolve airgun laws to the Scottish parliament. If and when the Scottish parliament is given the power over airgun legislation the Parliament has vowed to ban the sale of all airguns in Scotland. In the coming years, England will follow the Scottish example and airgun registration and an eventual licensing system will follow. The slippery slope is now in a vertical freefall. Apart from the fact that Scotland is almost completely separate from England in it's legislature, he goes on to say... Am I suggesting that there has been some nefarious plan all along to disarm and subjugate the British people? Yes, partly. I am also suggesting that this is a cycle of government behaviour long recognised, one we should be paying attention to, and breaking. We KNOW what governments do; they acquire power at the expense of the governed. They do it slowly, almost imperceptibly, and usually for nefarious reasons and political expediency. He explicitly states that "...has been some nefarious plan all along to disarm and subjugate the British people". We the people, have been demanding tighter gun laws to include air guns. Many also want to include BB guns as well. Subjugate?? I hardly think so.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:47:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin The UK people demanded gun control. Yes I get it. But we're not exactly demanding it here. Ok, well some are demanding it and as far as I'm concerned I've drawn the proverbial line in the sand because I can see a slippery slope here in the US. The truth is even worse than that. This is that the UK people don't much care about gun control. Guns just aren't important to us. They never have been. Ok, so tell me something I don't know[8D] I don't fully agree with peon on this. We do care - enough to NOT want them in the hands of Joe Public.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:50:10 PM)
Here isn't there talk again of Scotland going it alone? It would make them more separate, oi? Though I doubt it will really go so far, haggis peddling does not an economy make. And Irish bagpipes are far more mellifluidous.

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:51:36 PM)
quote: I don't fully agree with peon on this. We do care - enough to NOT want them in the hands of Joe Public. I should have said that Brits wouldn't care about any extra control of guns. Few own them, few want to own them. Governments can enact - and have enacted - yet more stringent control of guns without more than a tiny number of people giving a toss about it.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:54:24 PM)
But a point and an exact one, if they want to own them, there is ownership availed to them. Its like us voting for good politicians, we can, but we rarely take the trouble, Brietbart or MSNBC tells us who to vote for, respectively.

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:55:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Here isn't there talk again of Scotland going it alone? It would make them more separate, oi? Though I doubt it will really go so far, haggis peddling does not an economy make. And Irish bagpipes are far more mellifluidous. I've heard this, yes. It's not just that the Highlands are traditionally the rich mens' sporting grounds - farty richies come from all over the globe to don silly kilts and go out pretending that their lairds - there's also the problem of deer chewing up the countryside without fear from their old time predators of wolves and bears. I have to say that red deer are a bit of a menace in that way.

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