RE: Gun control in the U.K.

RE: Gun control in the U.K. (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 3:59:35 PM)
If you had guns, you could take care of the deer problem, deer are trying to take your Scotland away!!!!! Have a train of lorries speeding along the M whatever during rutting season, that will keep the blighters in check.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 4:05:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Here isn't there talk again of Scotland going it alone? It would make them more separate, oi? Though I doubt it will really go so far, haggis peddling does not an economy make. And Irish bagpipes are far more mellifluidous. Yep. They get a free vote about it in September. Notice they get to vote to go it alone but we don't get a vote as whether we want to shove them out or not?? Bastards!! [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: I don't fully agree with peon on this. We do care - enough to NOT want them in the hands of Joe Public. I should have said that Brits wouldn't care about any extra control of guns. Few own them, few want to own them. Governments can enact - and have enacted - yet more stringent control of guns without more than a tiny number of people giving a toss about it. Give that man a carrot!! Well said! quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail But a point and an exact one, if they want to own them, there is ownership availed to them. Its like us voting for good politicians, we can, but we rarely take the trouble, Brietbart or MSNBC tells us who to vote for, respectively. Absolutely there is! As Peon pointed out... We don't own them, don't have a need for them, and don't want them. And as many of us over here have said before, we actually like the idea that our schools aren't under armed guard and look like high security prisons. We like the idea that we can go shopping, with the kids (or even the kids on their own), in the town or a mall without fear of being shot at any time soon. The gundiots of the US can't seem to understand how 'free' that actually feels... No fucking guns everywhere! And I've lived in the US for 8 months.... I know where I feel safer and it wasn't over there.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 4:08:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Here isn't there talk again of Scotland going it alone? It would make them more separate, oi? Though I doubt it will really go so far, haggis peddling does not an economy make. And Irish bagpipes are far more mellifluidous. Yep. They get a free vote about it in September. Notice they get to vote to go it alone but we don't get a vote as whether we want to shove them out or not?? Bastards!! [:D] Well it's like Sharia Law and bloody Crimea over there then, innit? Get Guns.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 4:10:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Here isn't there talk again of Scotland going it alone? It would make them more separate, oi? Though I doubt it will really go so far, haggis peddling does not an economy make. And Irish bagpipes are far more mellifluidous. Yep. They get a free vote about it in September. Notice they get to vote to go it alone but we don't get a vote as whether we want to shove them out or not?? Bastards!! [:D] Well it's like Sharia Law and bloody Crimea over there then, innit? Get Guns. Naah. If they feel they wanna go it alone.... fuck'em. Let them find out how hard it is to step out into the big wide world without mummy holding their hands [:D]

mnottertail -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 4:15:54 PM)
Well the sun will set on the bloody British Empire about 4:30 PM Greenwich Mean Time, won't it? (Northern Ireland has never really been with ya).

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 4:37:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well the sun will set on the bloody British Empire about 4:30 PM Greenwich Mean Time, won't it? (Northern Ireland has never really been with ya). Would that be before or after afternoon tea, Ron??

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 4:56:37 PM)
Strange, I make a comment concerning UK gun control and the next thing I know I have the worst chest cold I have had in decades. This indicates that the UK citizens that use this board have access to bio warfare agents.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 5:00:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Strange, I make a comment concerning UK gun control and the next thing I know I have the worst chest cold I have had in decades. This indicates that the UK citizens that use this board have access to bio warfare agents. Must've caught it from me Jeff. [:D] My daughter gave it to me about 4 days ago. It's fucking awful and knocking the stuffing outta me. [:'(]

Politesub53 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 5:13:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I addressed the slippery slope in post #185. If you interpret one way and I interpret another we are arguing semantics. Yet you can't seem to come up with one lousey thing in the OP, that was stated as a point of fact, that is not accurate. Go figure. We are hardly arguing semantics when others, as well as myself, have pointed out the OP is bullshit. It is interesting that the original posters hasnt returned to defend this crap. nor indeed supply a credible source. I clearly gave a link for your own congressional library, showing that both the hungerford and Dunblame massacres resulted in a change in the law demandaed by "We the people". I would have thought your own congressional library would have been a good enough source, even for the gun nuts, obviously it wasnt. If you are unable or unwilling to post valid links, even to back your clown claims let alone the OP, then thats your problem. But lets get it right, I have shown from a valid source that the 1903 Pistols act was more about raising money via indrect taxes, anyone could walk into a post office and obtain a gun license. The OP lists in chronological order the history of gun control legislation in the UK and the fact that it was easy to round up guns with registration lists. It didn't mention Hungerford and Dunblain. Ok, so what ? Where is the bullshit. No points of fact in there that can be refuted ? Oh ffs..... quote: From the OPs link In 1988 all semi-automatic rifles were banned, including pump action rifles. The personal property of law abiding people was once again outlawed and seized. All the guns were registered and easy to find, that is to say, all the legally held ones. In 1996 all handguns were banned and they too were all registered with the agents of the state. Well, need I say more? You get the picture. Also in 1996 carrying any knife with a blade longer than 3 inches was made illegal. Presumably one cannot stab someone to death with a three inch knife. You now had to show "good reason" for carrying a knife, the presumption of innocence, until proven guilty of a crime, was gone. Here is the bullshit, from the OP. Both pieces of legislation were carried out due to a demand by the public in response firstly to Hungerford then Dunblane, the fact you dont know that and failed to google isnt my problem. It doesnt help trying to be obtuse. Certain types of guns were banned in accordance with the wishes of the people, why do you find that so fucking difficult to follow. While I am at it, show me a link for Salisburys quote re "A gun in every cottage" I wont hold my breath either.

Politesub53 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 5:16:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: I wonder what kind of BS he's going to come up with this time. ** That's all he had. ** How limp is that? I`m not sure if you saw my post that got pulled. Anyhow following the thread should clue you in to my sources.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 5:29:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin The UK people demanded gun control. Yes I get it. But we're not exactly demanding it here. Ok, well some are demanding it and as far as I'm concerned I've drawn the proverbial line in the sand because I can see a slippery slope here in the US. But the original post (with the link) that started the discussion was specifically aimed at the British and gun control being a slippery slope - hence the thread title. Right at the top of that article, it states "Voluntary servitude has consequences." then heads the article with "A Brief History of British Gun Control (or, How to Disarm the Law Abiding Populace by Stealth)". He ends up by saying - In 2009 talks with the British government were started to devolve airgun laws to the Scottish parliament. If and when the Scottish parliament is given the power over airgun legislation the Parliament has vowed to ban the sale of all airguns in Scotland. In the coming years, England will follow the Scottish example and airgun registration and an eventual licensing system will follow. The slippery slope is now in a vertical freefall. Apart from the fact that Scotland is almost completely separate from England in it's legislature, he goes on to say... Am I suggesting that there has been some nefarious plan all along to disarm and subjugate the British people? Yes, partly. I am also suggesting that this is a cycle of government behaviour long recognised, one we should be paying attention to, and breaking. We KNOW what governments do; they acquire power at the expense of the governed. They do it slowly, almost imperceptibly, and usually for nefarious reasons and political expediency. He explicitly states that "...has been some nefarious plan all along to disarm and subjugate the British people". We the people, have been demanding tighter gun laws to include air guns. Many also want to include BB guns as well. Subjugate?? I hardly think so. First off I think the article itself was aimed at US gun owners using the UK as an example. The OP reads "Leads to an interesting history of a dissenting voice." The interpretation of that seems subjective. "......disarm and subjugate the British people? Yes, partly." Certainly an argument could be made for partly but like I said, I get it. The Brits welcome their gun laws. "I am also suggesting that this is a cycle of government behaviour long recognised, one we should be paying attention to, and breaking. We KNOW what governments do; they acquire power at the expense of the governed. They do it slowly, almost imperceptibly, and usually for nefarious reasons and political expediency." I'll concede the UK gun laws, considering there is virtually no opposition to them, won't make a great example of this. However since I believe the article is aimed at US gun owners, it portrays something that would be considered draconian to us. "......a cycle of government behaviour long recognised, they acquire power at the expense of the governed, nefarious reasons and political expediency." would absolutely apply to other governments throughout history. Nazi Germany and The Soviet Union come to mind among others. Yeah, I get it, the OP used the UK for an example.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 5:36:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I'll concede the UK gun laws, considering there is virtually no opposition to them, won't make a great example of this. However since I believe the article is aimed at US gun owners, it portrays something that would be considered draconian to us. "......a cycle of government behaviour long recognised, they acquire power at the expense of the governed, nefarious reasons and political expediency." would absolutely apply to other governments throughout history. Nazi Germany and The Soviet Union come to mind among others. Yeah, I get it, the OP used the UK for an example. Being on the butt end of the whole thing, I definitely see it completely differently to you. And again, it's not a case of 'no opposition', it's a definite case of "we the people" actively wanting and pushing for our government to do it. Big difference. We didn't 'let' it happen - we pushed for it. I don't see it as aimed at the US and using the British 'as an example'. Otherwise, some mention of other countries would be there or hinted at; but there were none. It is squarely aimed at the British and the assumption that our gun laws were oppressing and subjugating us and that it was a very slippery slope that the US needed to watch out for.

Politesub53 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 5:39:28 PM)
No matter if its an example or not, it still needs to be factual unless you are happy to be fed bullshit. The fact these myths are now posted as "truth" on US gun owner sights seems to suggest I have got it right. Anything might seem draconian if its total bollocks. One thing it isnt is "an interesting history of a dissenting voice"

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 5:44:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I'll concede the UK gun laws, considering there is virtually no opposition to them, won't make a great example of this. However since I believe the article is aimed at US gun owners, it portrays something that would be considered draconian to us. "......a cycle of government behaviour long recognised, they acquire power at the expense of the governed, nefarious reasons and political expediency." would absolutely apply to other governments throughout history. Nazi Germany and The Soviet Union come to mind among others. Yeah, I get it, the OP used the UK for an example. Being on the butt end of the whole thing, I definitely see it completely differently to you. And again, it's not a case of 'no opposition', it's a definite case of "us the people" actively wanting and pushing for our government to do it. Big difference. I don't see it as aimed at the US and using the British 'as an example'. Otherwise, some mention of other countries would be there or hinted at; but there were none. It is squarely aimed at the British and the assumption that our gun laws were oppressing and subjugating us and that it was a very slippery slope that the US needed to watch out for. I guess we'll disagree on that point. I take it as aimed a us showing how far things can go. What would be the point of aiming it at the UK ? Oh yeah, and one other thing, air gun legislation ?? Really ?? I mean if ya'all favor it, ok then but come on, what's the point ?

deathtothepixies -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 5:59:40 PM)
where were we again? oh, yeah, living in a democracy. If Brits wanted more guns, we would say so, but we don't, we want fewer guns. Every time the subject comes up over here we say no, fewer guns please. Oppress and subjugate my fat one

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 6:00:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 No matter if its an example or not, it still needs to be factual unless you are happy to be fed bullshit. The fact these myths are now posted as "truth" on US gun owner sights seems to suggest I have got it right. Anything might seem draconian if its total bollocks. One thing it isnt is "an interesting history of a dissenting voice" At least Peon and Freedomdwarf can come up with some points of contention, not exactly an erroneous point of fact but errors in the perspective worth discussing. All you can do is cry bull shit and run away. When asked what the bullshit is you claim you've said it before, we should do a search for it, google it, cry bullshit some more and run away again. Then come back and cry bullshit on the slippery slope thing, run away again and come back when Peon and Freedom come up with something legitamate only to jump in once again because your so smart. Good for you. I suppose now you can come up with a myth stated as a point of fact or will you just keep crying bullshit ?

Politesub53 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 6:22:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 No matter if its an example or not, it still needs to be factual unless you are happy to be fed bullshit. The fact these myths are now posted as "truth" on US gun owner sights seems to suggest I have got it right. Anything might seem draconian if its total bollocks. One thing it isnt is "an interesting history of a dissenting voice" At least Peon and Freedomdwarf can come up with some points of contention, not exactly an erroneous point of fact but errors in the perspective worth discussing. All you can do is cry bull shit and run away. When asked what the bullshit is you claim you've said it before, we should do a search for it, google it, cry bullshit some more and run away again. Then come back and cry bullshit on the slippery slope thing, run away again and come back when Peon and Freedom come up with something legitamate only to jump in once again because your so smart. Good for you. I suppose now you can come up with a myth stated as a point of fact or will you just keep crying bullshit ? Again, there was no slippery slope, the act was mainly designed to create revenue, was ineffective as a control since almost anyone could still obtain a license. You have the sources I used, try reading them. You could also try finding a credible link yourself yet fail to do so. You want another Myth, try that the 1968 act was due to Harry Roberts, a small time criminal. It was nothing of the sort. The reason behind it was to consolidate all the existing firearms laws into one act of Parliament. There was no law on regulations for shotguns, just an introduction of a license. So again, more bullshit from the OP is dispelled. Continue to deny the truth if you like but it is clear you have no clue as to the realities of UK law, nor the reasons for the implication of them.

deathtothepixies -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 6:22:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 No matter if its an example or not, it still needs to be factual unless you are happy to be fed bullshit. The fact these myths are now posted as "truth" on US gun owner sights seems to suggest I have got it right. Anything might seem draconian if its total bollocks. One thing it isnt is "an interesting history of a dissenting voice" At least Peon and Freedomdwarf can come up with some points of contention, not exactly an erroneous point of fact but errors in the perspective worth discussing. All you can do is cry bull shit and run away. When asked what the bullshit is you claim you've said it before, we should do a search for it, google it, cry bullshit some more and run away again. Then come back and cry bullshit on the slippery slope thing, run away again and come back when Peon and Freedom come up with something legitamate only to jump in once again because your so smart. Good for you. I suppose now you can come up with a myth stated as a point of fact or will you just keep crying bullshit ? I think this might be the crux of the matter, who do you trust? the person who's avatar is a pic of someone drinking a cup of tea or the person who's avatar is "love" but with a big gun substituted for the "E" I am struggling with a gun in the word love personally

Politesub53 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 6:24:50 PM)
How about someone who actually lives in the UK (and knew Harry Roberts`s nephews pretty well) or someone who gets all his info from bullshit websites. I have asked for credible sources on numerous occassions and have had zilch.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/25/2014 7:19:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 No matter if its an example or not, it still needs to be factual unless you are happy to be fed bullshit. The fact these myths are now posted as "truth" on US gun owner sights seems to suggest I have got it right. Anything might seem draconian if its total bollocks. One thing it isnt is "an interesting history of a dissenting voice" At least Peon and Freedomdwarf can come up with some points of contention, not exactly an erroneous point of fact but errors in the perspective worth discussing. All you can do is cry bull shit and run away. When asked what the bullshit is you claim you've said it before, we should do a search for it, google it, cry bullshit some more and run away again. Then come back and cry bullshit on the slippery slope thing, run away again and come back when Peon and Freedom come up with something legitamate only to jump in once again because your so smart. Good for you. I suppose now you can come up with a myth stated as a point of fact or will you just keep crying bullshit ? I think this might be the crux of the matter, who do you trust? the person who's avatar is a pic of someone drinking a cup of tea or the person who's avatar is "love" but with a big gun substituted for the "E" I am struggling with a gun in the word love personally Awwww......ya mean you can't feel the love. Other than on a political forum , everyone loves me. That's why I'm lovmuffin. I'm thinking for my next avatar I'll use PeacE[8D]

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