RE: Gun control in the U.K.

RE: Gun control in the U.K. (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 11:50:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: We have the same business criticizing their gun laws as they have criticizing ours.........none. That would only be true if none of us were to care about people living in other countries. We do, we have a right to, and we'd be less than human if we didn't. Or if you could comprehend that our societies are so different that you have no frame of reference or even if you could absorb the fact that our murder rates are far closer than they were when you passed your draconian anti gun laws. And no I am not saying yours skyrocketed but ours have dropped dramatically while yours has risen slightly according to the figures given here. Before it was 1.1 now it is 1.2 Instead you choose to lecture us like we were children a tactic proven, on this side of the Atlantic to get negative results. Nobody lectures you like you were a child, Bama. That's just your projection and something for you to sort out. As for our allegedly not having 'a common frame of reference': we do - people in our country kill or get killed, too.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:06:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: We have the same business criticizing their gun laws as they have criticizing ours.........none. That would only be true if none of us were to care about people living in other countries. We do, we have a right to, and we'd be less than human if we didn't. Or if you could comprehend that our societies are so different that you have no frame of reference or even if you could absorb the fact that our murder rates are far closer than they were when you passed your draconian anti gun laws. And no I am not saying yours skyrocketed but ours have dropped dramatically while yours has risen slightly according to the figures given here. Before it was 1.1 now it is 1.2 Instead you choose to lecture us like we were children a tactic proven, on this side of the Atlantic to get negative results. Nobody lectures you like you were a child, Bama. That's just your projection and something for you to sort out. As for our allegedly not having 'a common frame of reference': we do - people in our country kill or get killed, too. You have your superiority so deeply ingrained you don't even realize you are doing it. None of your gun control laws have resulted in your improving your murder rate in relation to the US, you have to absorb that fact before true communication take place.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:17:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: We have the same business criticizing their gun laws as they have criticizing ours.........none. That would only be true if none of us were to care about people living in other countries. We do, we have a right to, and we'd be less than human if we didn't. Or if you could comprehend that our societies are so different that you have no frame of reference or even if you could absorb the fact that our murder rates are far closer than they were when you passed your draconian anti gun laws. And no I am not saying yours skyrocketed but ours have dropped dramatically while yours has risen slightly according to the figures given here. Before it was 1.1 now it is 1.2 Instead you choose to lecture us like we were children a tactic proven, on this side of the Atlantic to get negative results. Nobody lectures you like you were a child, Bama. That's just your projection and something for you to sort out. As for our allegedly not having 'a common frame of reference': we do - people in our country kill or get killed, too. Even Bloomberg, who is about as anti gun as they get admits to about a quarter million legitimate defensive firearm uses a year. This greatly exceeds the number of crimes committed with firearms some estimates range as high as one million. Unbiased sources put the number at something over 400,000 with 10% or so being in life threating situations. Hard as it is for you to accept, or even consider that means that they prevent 28,000 more murders than are committed with them. When someone, not you, tells me that when confronted on my own property by a drug dealer intent on closing me that I should search for a board, or go into the house and get a chair and describes the US as having a psychopathic gun nutter society you think I should take that as being treated like an adult?

truckinslave -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:20:49 PM)
I think you should take that as being lectured to by an unrealistic person.....

Musicmystery -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:21:51 PM)
You might want to take another look at your math and your phrasing before you take him to task. A quarter million doesn't greatly exceed a million, or exceed it at all, nor does it exceed 400,000. I think your 28,000 would be hard for anyone to accept, since it doesn't come at all from the numbers you're claiming.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:22:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD None of your gun control laws have resulted in your improving your murder rate in relation to the US, you have to absorb that fact before true communication take place. And there you go again, twisting the meaning and context of what was said. We are talking guns and the UK - not the general murder rate. Now, if you were comparing apples with apples, like murder rate with guns, that would be different. Not you though... you lump general murder rate with gun homicides. Sorry, ain't the same picnic.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:35:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave I think you should take that as being lectured to by an unrealistic person..... I did, and pointed it out to him, but it was still arrogant and condescending.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:38:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery You might want to take another look at your math and your phrasing before you take him to task. A quarter million doesn't greatly exceed a million, or exceed it at all, nor does it exceed 400,000. I think your 28,000 would be hard for anyone to accept, since it doesn't come at all from the numbers you're claiming. You might want to read my post again, I referenced multiple studies which range from the anti gun one to some that run the estimates as high a one million. The 400,000 figure was from one of the middle of the road studies

Musicmystery -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:41:26 PM)
Your math still doesn't add up. Where you got it is irrelevant. That's the point, O Ever Defensive One. Even if God gave you those numbers, what you did with them violates basic arithmetic. You can correct it so he gets your point, or pretend your new math works. Whatever. Not going to waste time arguing the obvious with you.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:43:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD None of your gun control laws have resulted in your improving your murder rate in relation to the US, you have to absorb that fact before true communication take place. And there you go again, twisting the meaning and context of what was said. We are talking guns and the UK - not the general murder rate. Now, if you were comparing apples with apples, like murder rate with guns, that would be different. Not you though... you lump general murder rate with gun homicides. Sorry, ain't the same picnic. In case you haven't noticed dead is dead, doesn't matter what the weapon is. You are clearly unaware of the fact that our murder rate without firearms exceeds the total UK murder rate. And with the exception of NYC and St Louis the tighter the gun controls the higher the murder rate. If you don't think a murder with a knife should count as much as one with a knife you need a reality check.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:51:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Your math still doesn't add up. Where you got it is irrelevant. That's the point, O Ever Defensive One. Even if God gave you those numbers, what you did with them violates basic arithmetic. You can correct it so he gets your point, or pretend your new math works. Whatever. Not going to waste time arguing the obvious with you. not my numbers they came with the study. they said 10% and they said that 10% of 400,000 is 40,000 or do you have different math standards I am sure he understood it, he isn't an idiot. But thank you for attempting to push the unpushable.

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 12:57:24 PM)
quote: You have your superiority so deeply ingrained you don't even realize you are doing it. Nup. You project that onto us. If you feel that your attitudes are childish and project 'superior airs' onto foreigners who criticise you for them, again, that's on you.

Musicmystery -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 1:00:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Your math still doesn't add up. Where you got it is irrelevant. That's the point, O Ever Defensive One. Even if God gave you those numbers, what you did with them violates basic arithmetic. You can correct it so he gets your point, or pretend your new math works. Whatever. Not going to waste time arguing the obvious with you. not my numbers they came with the study. they said 10% and they said that 10% of 400,000 is 40,000 or do you have different math standards I am sure he understood it, he isn't an idiot. But thank you for attempting to push the unpushable. You're ignoring the math mistakes I pointed out. Continue on. If you want to look silly, it's your right.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 1:20:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: You have your superiority so deeply ingrained you don't even realize you are doing it. Nup. You project that onto us. If you feel that your attitudes are childish and project 'superior airs' onto foreigners who criticise you for them, again, that's on you. I know that my attitudes are not childish and I don't project superior air, or were you describing the view point of too many Englishmen?

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 1:27:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD None of your gun control laws have resulted in your improving your murder rate in relation to the US, you have to absorb that fact before true communication take place. And there you go again, twisting the meaning and context of what was said. We are talking guns and the UK - not the general murder rate. Now, if you were comparing apples with apples, like murder rate with guns, that would be different. Not you though... you lump general murder rate with gun homicides. Sorry, ain't the same picnic. Got some bad news for you, the fact that you only want to look at part of the picture doesn't mean I have to.

susie -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 2:20:54 PM)
Provisional figures for the year ending June 2012 show that 5,507 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, an 18 per cent decrease on the previous year (6,694). The trend from 2002/03 indicates that since 2005/06 there has been a general decrease in the number of firearm offences over time. The number of offences involving firearms recorded by the police has fallen by 43 per cent from 2006/07. All these figures come from the ONS (Office of National Statistics)

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 2:42:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I know that my attitudes are not childish and I don't project superior air, or were you describing the view point of too many Englishmen? You don't seem to understand the word 'project' here.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 2:46:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie Provisional figures for the year ending June 2012 show that 5,507 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, an 18 per cent decrease on the previous year (6,694). The trend from 2002/03 indicates that since 2005/06 there has been a general decrease in the number of firearm offences over time. The number of offences involving firearms recorded by the police has fallen by 43 per cent from 2006/07. All these figures come from the ONS (Office of National Statistics) But the actual crime rate has remained the same, are you trying to say that if you trade a gun murder for a knife murder you have gained anything? You still have the same number of dead bodies.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 2:47:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I know that my attitudes are not childish and I don't project superior air, or were you describing the view point of too many Englishmen? You don't seem to understand the word 'project' here. That would be in your head so you have to deal with it.

susie -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 2:50:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie Provisional figures for the year ending June 2012 show that 5,507 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, an 18 per cent decrease on the previous year (6,694). The trend from 2002/03 indicates that since 2005/06 there has been a general decrease in the number of firearm offences over time. The number of offences involving firearms recorded by the police has fallen by 43 per cent from 2006/07. All these figures come from the ONS (Office of National Statistics) But the actual crime rate has remained the same, are you trying to say that if you trade a gun murder for a knife murder you have gained anything? You still have the same number of dead bodies. So sorry my mistake. I understood this tread was about Gun Control in the UK.

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