RE: Gun control in the U.K.

RE: Gun control in the U.K. (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 2:55:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You don't seem to understand the word 'project' here. quote: That would be in your head so you have to deal with it. That would be in your head so you have to deal with it.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:02:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie Provisional figures for the year ending June 2012 show that 5,507 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, an 18 per cent decrease on the previous year (6,694). The trend from 2002/03 indicates that since 2005/06 there has been a general decrease in the number of firearm offences over time. The number of offences involving firearms recorded by the police has fallen by 43 per cent from 2006/07. All these figures come from the ONS (Office of National Statistics) But the actual crime rate has remained the same, are you trying to say that if you trade a gun murder for a knife murder you have gained anything? You still have the same number of dead bodies. So sorry my mistake. I understood this tread was about Gun Control in the UK. Do you not understand that gun control is only successful if it reduces the actual number of murders just changing the weapons accomplishes nothing. How can you claim that gun control makes you safer if the murder rate is the same.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:06:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You don't seem to understand the word 'project' here. quote: That would be in your head so you have to deal with it. That would be in your head so you have to deal with it. How clever

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:14:49 PM)
FR as I have said before the English can have any gun laws they want, I have no desire or intent to persuade them to change. Clearly though every Englishman in this thread feels they need to "educate" Americans.

Tkman117 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:20:45 PM)
Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it.

susie -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:29:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie Provisional figures for the year ending June 2012 show that 5,507 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, an 18 per cent decrease on the previous year (6,694). The trend from 2002/03 indicates that since 2005/06 there has been a general decrease in the number of firearm offences over time. The number of offences involving firearms recorded by the police has fallen by 43 per cent from 2006/07. All these figures come from the ONS (Office of National Statistics) But the actual crime rate has remained the same, are you trying to say that if you trade a gun murder for a knife murder you have gained anything? You still have the same number of dead bodies. So sorry my mistake. I understood this tread was about Gun Control in the UK. Do you not understand that gun control is only successful if it reduces the actual number of murders just changing the weapons accomplishes nothing. How can you claim that gun control makes you safer if the murder rate is the same. So the fact that the homicide rate has dropped from 17.9 per million population in 2002/2003 to 9.4 in 2011/2012 is just a fluke then???

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:36:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it. And yet I am assured that you (plural not singular) in no way claim to be superior.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:38:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie Provisional figures for the year ending June 2012 show that 5,507 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, an 18 per cent decrease on the previous year (6,694). The trend from 2002/03 indicates that since 2005/06 there has been a general decrease in the number of firearm offences over time. The number of offences involving firearms recorded by the police has fallen by 43 per cent from 2006/07. All these figures come from the ONS (Office of National Statistics) But the actual crime rate has remained the same, are you trying to say that if you trade a gun murder for a knife murder you have gained anything? You still have the same number of dead bodies. So sorry my mistake. I understood this tread was about Gun Control in the UK. Do you not understand that gun control is only successful if it reduces the actual number of murders just changing the weapons accomplishes nothing. How can you claim that gun control makes you safer if the murder rate is the same. So the fact that the homicide rate has dropped from 17.9 per million population in 2002/2003 to 9.4 in 2011/2012 is just a fluke then??? Which runs contrary to what every other Englishman has told me, and still doesn't match our drop in the same time period.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:42:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie Provisional figures for the year ending June 2012 show that 5,507 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, an 18 per cent decrease on the previous year (6,694). The trend from 2002/03 indicates that since 2005/06 there has been a general decrease in the number of firearm offences over time. The number of offences involving firearms recorded by the police has fallen by 43 per cent from 2006/07. All these figures come from the ONS (Office of National Statistics) But the actual crime rate has remained the same, are you trying to say that if you trade a gun murder for a knife murder you have gained anything? You still have the same number of dead bodies. So sorry my mistake. I understood this tread was about Gun Control in the UK. Do you not understand that gun control is only successful if it reduces the actual number of murders just changing the weapons accomplishes nothing. How can you claim that gun control makes you safer if the murder rate is the same. So the fact that the homicide rate has dropped from 17.9 per million population in 2002/2003 to 9.4 in 2011/2012 is just a fluke then??? And it is just a fluke that more crimes are stopped with guns than committed with them in this country. I would not presume to tell you how to do things in your country, I just ask the same courtesy.

Tkman117 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:46:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it. And yet I am assured that you (plural not singular) in no way claim to be superior. Education wise, technically most first world nations are by comparison. Militarily and prison wise the US is superior, but America is hardly the beacon of progress that it was decades ago.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:49:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it. And yet I am assured that you (plural not singular) in no way claim to be superior. Education wise, technically most first world nations are by comparison. Militarily and prison wise the US is superior, but America is hardly the beacon of progress that it was decades ago. You mean like when I got my basic education. You know that sounds like we don't think we are better than you, we know it.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 3:57:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: susie Provisional figures for the year ending June 2012 show that 5,507 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, an 18 per cent decrease on the previous year (6,694). The trend from 2002/03 indicates that since 2005/06 there has been a general decrease in the number of firearm offences over time. The number of offences involving firearms recorded by the police has fallen by 43 per cent from 2006/07. All these figures come from the ONS (Office of National Statistics) But the actual crime rate has remained the same, are you trying to say that if you trade a gun murder for a knife murder you have gained anything? You still have the same number of dead bodies. So sorry my mistake. I understood this tread was about Gun Control in the UK. Do you not understand that gun control is only successful if it reduces the actual number of murders just changing the weapons accomplishes nothing. How can you claim that gun control makes you safer if the murder rate is the same. So the fact that the homicide rate has dropped from 17.9 per million population in 2002/2003 to 9.4 in 2011/2012 is just a fluke then??? polite (I think) posted that when the most recent gun laws were passed your murder rate was only 1.0 per hundred thousand this means one of three things 1 the murder rate skyrocketed right after passage and has just recovered 2 he was grossly misinformed or 3 you are grossly misinformed

Tkman117 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 4:01:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it. And yet I am assured that you (plural not singular) in no way claim to be superior. Education wise, technically most first world nations are by comparison. Militarily and prison wise the US is superior, but America is hardly the beacon of progress that it was decades ago. You mean like when I got my basic education. You know that sounds like we don't think we are better than you, we know it. Really, it took you that long to figure out what it sounds like? Even when I essentially stated that flat out? [:D] Who knew I'd be seeing evidence of that poor education first hand [8\|] So no, I don't mean when you got your basic education, I mean even before then when the US was looking to science as the future of your country. Most other first world countries are better than the US when it comes to education. That's a fact. The numbers don't lie, and if you want me to provide them then just ask, I'd be happy to, but at the moment I'm in the middle of studying and I'm not going to make the effort if it's going to fall on deaf ears.

Phydeaux -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 4:08:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it. And yet I am assured that you (plural not singular) in no way claim to be superior. Education wise, technically most first world nations are by comparison. Militarily and prison wise the US is superior, but America is hardly the beacon of progress that it was decades ago. Another interesting non fact by the left. Quick. Name 10 of the outstanding universities in the world. You're crazy if you don't think at least 5 of them are in the US. Harvard. Mit Yale Princeton Cale Tech Univerity of Chicago Universtiy of Pennsylvania Georgia Tech. Also interesting that Britains homicide rates were lower before they passed the gun laws than after. So its right ridiculous to claim its because of guns now, isn't it.

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 4:18:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it. And yet I am assured that you (plural not singular) in no way claim to be superior. Education wise, technically most first world nations are by comparison. Militarily and prison wise the US is superior, but America is hardly the beacon of progress that it was decades ago. You mean like when I got my basic education. You know that sounds like we don't think we are better than you, we know it. Really, it took you that long to figure out what it sounds like? Even when I essentially stated that flat out? [:D] Who knew I'd be seeing evidence of that poor education first hand [8\|] So no, I don't mean when you got your basic education, I mean even before then when the US was looking to science as the future of your country. Most other first world countries are better than the US when it comes to education. That's a fact. The numbers don't lie, and if you want me to provide them then just ask, I'd be happy to, but at the moment I'm in the middle of studying and I'm not going to make the effort if it's going to fall on deaf ears. No it was obvious from the beginning

Tkman117 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 4:22:27 PM)
And if the kids aren't smart enough to get into those universities? Wake up, your own party fights to remove evolution and any hint of climate change science from the class room. How can you expect to compare against other countries if you have an entire party fighting against science and intellectualism? Universities are businesses, they'll fight to keep their education as some of the best around, but what about the public sector? Your government would sooner cut education funding than their military funding, and you can claim that the military is keeping you safe, but at the expense of what? The economic and intellectual prosperity of your country? Do some research and you'll find 'merica isn't #1 anymore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index#Ranking http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html

BamaD -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 4:22:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Well considering America's poor education standards, it seems like you people could benefit from it. And yet I am assured that you (plural not singular) in no way claim to be superior. Education wise, technically most first world nations are by comparison. Militarily and prison wise the US is superior, but America is hardly the beacon of progress that it was decades ago. Another interesting non fact by the left. Quick. Name 10 of the outstanding universities in the world. You're crazy if you don't think at least 5 of them are in the US. Harvard. Mit Yale Princeton Cale Tech Univerity of Chicago Universtiy of Pennsylvania Georgia Tech. Also interesting that Britains homicide rates were lower before they passed the gun laws than after. So its right ridiculous to claim its because of guns now, isn't it. Suzie came up with a never before seen set of stats that claim that their murder rate has a net drop in their murder rate of .06 with an intermediate jump of .79 and she thinks this is better than our 4.5 drop over the same time.

Politesub53 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 4:50:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: We have the same business criticizing their gun laws as they have criticizing ours.........none. That would only be true if none of us were to care about people living in other countries. We do, we have a right to, and we'd be less than human if we didn't. Or if you could comprehend that our societies are so different that you have no frame of reference or even if you could absorb the fact that our murder rates are far closer than they were when you passed your draconian anti gun laws. And no I am not saying yours skyrocketed but ours have dropped dramatically while yours has risen slightly according to the figures given here. Before it was 1.1 now it is 1.2 Instead you choose to lecture us like we were children a tactic proven, on this side of the Atlantic to get negative results. Nobody lectures you like you were a child, Bama. That's just your projection and something for you to sort out. As for our allegedly not having 'a common frame of reference': we do - people in our country kill or get killed, too. Can someone ask him wtf he means by 1.1 and 1.2 because as far as ratios go, it bollocks.

Politesub53 -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 4:52:06 PM)
Okay, I saw the other post, because per person they dont kill as many as they used too, he thinks they have somehow cracked the problem.

thezeppo -> RE: Gun control in the U.K. (3/23/2014 4:57:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD We have the same business criticizing their gun laws as they have criticizing ours.........none. I don't mean to be rude, but do you not see how hypocritical it is to spend five pages hijacking a thread about UK gun laws with your opinion on who can post on discussions about US gun laws? To tell you the truth, I am more pro-gun ownership (in the US at least) than I was before I started reading threads such as these. Reading the various arguments first-hand has enabled me to understand the different sides a little better. If there was ever a reason to allow the pesky Brits onto the US-centric threads then surely that is it.

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