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RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 4:42:47 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



Another liberal misconception shredded by its encounter with reality.


That many liberals are gunowners shreds this moronic encounter with reality.


How. Love to hear this one.

Ever heard of Hunter S Thompson, the noted lefty journalist and enthusiastic gun nut?



Uh - wrong thread. The question on the table is

How does the presence of liberal gunowners contest that the liberal belief that increased gun prohibitions decreases gun violence is shredded by studies like these that show violence decreases when gun prohibitions are repealed?

Nope, you made some bullshit point about there being no tooled up liberals



Uh. No I didn't.

Ever.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 4:51:30 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?


Neither does the fact that there weren't any CCW holders in Illinois last summer either, now does it?

I don't understand our disagreement, the OP posted Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply. I mentioned that it wasn't due to Illinois CCW, what am I missing?

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 4:51:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



Another liberal misconception shredded by its encounter with reality.


That many liberals are gunowners shreds this moronic encounter with reality.


How. Love to hear this one.

Ever heard of Hunter S Thompson, the noted lefty journalist and enthusiastic gun nut?



Uh - wrong thread. The question on the table is

How does the presence of liberal gunowners contest that the liberal belief that increased gun prohibitions decreases gun violence is shredded by studies like these that show violence decreases when gun prohibitions are repealed?

Nope, you made some bullshit point about there being no tooled up liberals



Uh. No I didn't.

Ever.

Two days ago was the anniversary of the Carl Rowan trial.
A strong supporter of gun control he shot a unarmed kid in his back yard
with an illegal gun.
His defense?
Until the country adopted the laws he thought we should have he
wasn't obligated to follow the gun laws we had.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 4:52:45 PM   
ForgetToRemember


Posts: 48
Joined: 5/6/2012
Status: offline 		[/quote]
But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?
[/quote]

No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased)

as we mentioned before:

State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far.

The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 4:54:33 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember


But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?


No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased)

as we mentioned before:

State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far.

The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law.


You didn't read my first post.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ForgetToRemember)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 5:10:45 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember


But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?


No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased)

as we mentioned before:

State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far.

The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law.


You didn't read my first post.

Or my reply to this line of questioning, either

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 5:38:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember


But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?


No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased)

as we mentioned before:

State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far.

The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law.


You didn't read my first post.

Or my reply to this line of questioning, either

My first post


Post # 2

"Although the effect the overturning the gun ban could only have had a measurable effect so
soon would be because of the criminal element's fear that victims could be armed.
I doubt there has been a major influx of legal guns in Chicago."


See I clearly stated that there couldn't be enough legal guns in circulation to have an effect

How can so many people fail to comprehend that this is what I said

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 5:43:31 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember


But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?


No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased)

as we mentioned before:

State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far.

The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law.


You didn't read my first post.

Or my reply to this line of questioning, either

My first post


Post # 2

"Although the effect the overturning the gun ban could only have had a measurable effect so
soon would be because of the criminal element's fear that victims could be armed.
I doubt there has been a major influx of legal guns in Chicago."


See I clearly stated that there couldn't be enough legal guns in circulation to have an effect

How can so many people fail to comprehend that this is what I said




We agree. The number of guns permits probably isn't the cause.

It could be:

a). Permit holders carrying more.
b). Criminals having more fear because of Zimmerman - and CCW now legal.
c). Existing CCW permit holders feeling more emboldened to intervene in crimes.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 5:43:54 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

i cant rob or rape anybody its to cold

He said it had dropped for 6 straight quarters, I don't think it was snowing last summer.


They didn't start issuing permits until February of this year, so the point about last summer is moot.
First Illinois CCW permits issued.

Now this is not to say that the McDonald SC decision didn't have anything to do with the crime rate, after all the SC basically bitch slapped Daley and allowed the citizens of Chicago to purchase firearms to protect their homes. But this and the Heller decision wouldn't have affected street crime at all.

As to knowing about Chicago's winter, yes I travel up there frequently, and still have family in Chicago.

But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?

Neither does CCW permits that just started getting issued in feb. either!

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 5:46:48 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

i cant rob or rape anybody its to cold

He said it had dropped for 6 straight quarters, I don't think it was snowing last summer.


They didn't start issuing permits until February of this year, so the point about last summer is moot.
First Illinois CCW permits issued.

Now this is not to say that the McDonald SC decision didn't have anything to do with the crime rate, after all the SC basically bitch slapped Daley and allowed the citizens of Chicago to purchase firearms to protect their homes. But this and the Heller decision wouldn't have affected street crime at all.

As to knowing about Chicago's winter, yes I travel up there frequently, and still have family in Chicago.

But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?

Neither does CCW permits that just started getting issued in feb. either!

How sad that you didn't read the preceding post where I reprinted post
number 2 where I discounted an influx of firearms.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 6:00:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

i cant rob or rape anybody its to cold

He said it had dropped for 6 straight quarters, I don't think it was snowing last summer.


They didn't start issuing permits until February of this year, so the point about last summer is moot.
First Illinois CCW permits issued.

Now this is not to say that the McDonald SC decision didn't have anything to do with the crime rate, after all the SC basically bitch slapped Daley and allowed the citizens of Chicago to purchase firearms to protect their homes. But this and the Heller decision wouldn't have affected street crime at all.

As to knowing about Chicago's winter, yes I travel up there frequently, and still have family in Chicago.

But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it?

Neither does CCW permits that just started getting issued in feb. either!

How sad that you didn't read the preceding post where I reprinted post
number 2 where I discounted an influx of firearms.

In reality we changed Police Chiefs and he changed the way the police went after the gangs and it seems to be working. This gun worshipping nonsense is crap. Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 6:24:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		"Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. "


And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 8:03:17 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



Another liberal misconception shredded by its encounter with reality.


That many liberals are gunowners shreds this moronic encounter with reality.


This. Liberal feminist with an arsenal. I'm from Maine it's how we roll..seriously. Generalizations suck.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 8:15:55 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

"Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. "


And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap.

Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too.

Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 8:18:49 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

simply put if the bad guy knows your packing he's running

And if the bad guy thinks he's better than you??
Also, if you are concealed carry, he ain't gonna know and probably confront you anyway.

Someone is going to get seriously injured or dead.

The bad guy always thinks he is better than you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 8:19:54 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

"Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. "


And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap.

Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too.

Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it?

Left wing myth that defies reason.
DC used that excuse so does Chicago.
So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate?
Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities?
Or is it because only the bad guys have guns?
Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 4/7/2014 8:27:50 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 8:51:04 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It has been snowing for 6 quarters?


Thaaaats riiiight!!

And, it didn't snow in Chicago for the previous 8 years

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 8:55:40 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

maybe getting robbed isn't worth taking a life.


Well, maybe it's not.
In the CCW courses I taught I stressed that I personally would never shoot someone for money.
If he wants the wallet and that's as far as it looks like it's going, fine; he gets the wallet.
If it seems he wants more than that, he's going to get me trying to take my best shot

quote:

they're stealing from you, but if you think killing someone is justified based on that then you have a twisted sense of morality.


I agree.
I will not hire out to kill someone for $5,000; why would I kill them for the $50 in my wallet?

Why do you think that has anything much to do with getting a concealed weapons permit?

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 4/7/2014 8:59:36 PM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 8:59:49 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Generalizations suck.

Don't you mean most generalizations suck?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/7/2014 9:01:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

maybe getting robbed isn't worth taking a life.


Well, maybe it's not.
In the CCW courses I taught I stressed that I personally would never shoot someone for money.
If he wants the wallet and that's as far as it looks like it's going, fine; he gets the wallet.
If it seems he wants more than that, he's going to get me trying to take my best shot

Since all my confrontations but one was on my property it makes a difference.
They start something on my property it is their problem.
That being said I have consistently sent them packing.
And my guns have allowed me to avoid violence.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 4/7/2014 9:02:19 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 80
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