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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 2:18:13 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jezabelKH

dark,

you have made your views very known, i have not discounted them, thanks for your contribution, back to topic.

jezabel

What have I said in my last statement that wasn't on topic?  Goodness, jezabel - the reason people (ie Masters and Mistress')are not responding is simply because you are not hearing anything that people are saying because it doesn't conform to your 'ideal' response. People are keeping onto topic(as you, a slave, demands).
 
Kennel answered you incredibly well.  He wasn't stating BDSM started just in the 1970's... he was offering you an example of tradition that exists from an individual viewpoint(which you asked for). There is no oddness.
 
I am not trying to be a pain, seriously - I just cannot understand how one can ask a question, then discount the answers from individuals.  Maybe you have placed your question in a way people do not understand it and are responding in the 'wrong' way.  Maybe it's a breakdown of communication.  No ones having a go, simply trying to grasp why you are seemingly discounting the majority of responses.
 
Peace and Love


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 3:11:05 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I don’t want a sub with me, even for the first time, to entitle anyone else Master. If we didn’t know each other that well, I would explain my feelings to her. However, if we went to an event, Gorean or whatever, where it was expected all the slaves present would bring into play titles, she would participate and she would carry out the expected social courtesies. The decision for us to attend the event is my permission for her to use titles with others. See Spot run for me.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 3:44:47 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		There is no universal standard of traditions.  However if you are looking for scholarly information on the history of the BDSM and leather scene I would suggest:

- Going to the library, there are a limited number of actual, solid, and reliable sources of information online
- Visiting the Leather Archives & Musem in Chicago
- Reading Rob Binevenu's dissertation at: http://www.americanfetish.net/

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 3:55:59 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for your response. I was wanting a more personal touch on the subject, I wanted to hear about individual or BDSM community "history" or "traditions" or "knowledge" from BDSM Masters and Mistresses. And How their "history" or "traditions" or "knowledge" compare to the original quote.  To be specific in response to items #1-#4. There maybe that should clarify the question more.

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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 4:24:31 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jezabelKH

Thank you for your response. I was wanting a more personal touch on the subject, I wanted to hear about individual or BDSM community "history" or "traditions" or "knowledge" from BDSM Masters and Mistresses. And How their "history" or "traditions" or "knowledge" compare to the original quote.  To be specific in response to items #1-#4. There maybe that should clarify the question more.


And you expect to find these sorts HERE?

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 4:43:30 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jezabelKH

Thank you for your response. I was wanting a more personal touch on the subject, I wanted to hear about individual or BDSM community "history" or "traditions" or "knowledge" from BDSM Masters and Mistresses. And How their "history" or "traditions" or "knowledge" compare to the original quote.  To be specific in response to items #1-#4. There maybe that should clarify the question more.


But the quote referred to a Gorean outlook and has been so often said Gor has nothing to do with BDSM.  You might as well ask Trekkies or Civil War Reenactors.



_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 4:47:44 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		... or dare I say it... refer back to the original thread on this on the Gor boards, where it was first posted? 

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 5:15:28 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		You hush up with your logic.  That has no place in the House.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 6:12:34 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Hahaha stef!

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/10/2006 6:34:49 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		It's been said already but you apparently don't want to hear it unless it's from a Mistress so let Me try. 
 
Regardless of your race, sexual identity, creed, religion, or lack thereof, orientation, or leather affiliation when you have a guest in your home it's your responsibility as a host to do whatever is necessary to make THEM comfortable.  You are at home, they are not, the onus is on you to make them feel at home. 
 
Gorean, BDSM, Leather, muppet, whatever manners are manners and the object of manners is that everyone is comfortable and no one is ostracized.  If a guest in your home drinks from the finger bowl and everyone else at the table is staring,  you better pick yours up and commence drinking. 

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 7:02:25 AM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		Thank You for You Input and Views, and i agree to them on making guest's feel welcome. What are Your Views on items #1-#4?

jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 7:44:12 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Exactly what are items 1-4?  I see in the OP that you quoted someone's opinions on why Masters won't let their slaves call anyone else Master but themselves.  Are you asking people to comment on the opinions of someone else?  I won't do that, but I will give you My opinion on honorific titles.
 
Honorific titles are earned.  I didn't order My girl to call Me Mistress, she does it of her own volition, it's how she feels and reflects our relationship.  There are some who refer to themselves as Mistress or Master or (gulp) even Lord and introduce themselves as such.  I don't use such honorifics when addressing them, and I have let her know that she has no obligation to use them either.

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthful,... - 7/11/2006 7:56:06 AM   
GddssBella


Posts: 343
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		G'morning all:


Got to love Google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM

History portion towards the middle. Traditions? Those are much harder to define. Too dependent on the individual to make a list. It's adaptable to the persons involved at the time, place, and occurrence.

I'd be more interested in etiquette. Differences, protocols, pros/cons. It would be lovely to see a basic collection gathered and assembled for distribution like a flyer or some other handout. Especially at public dungeons. (Hijack finished.)

jezabel, you have to realize one thing. The term "master" is so subjective. You're going to get dizzying amounts of controversy over it. Frankly, I don't believe anyone can be a master, of anything, because people are constantly learning and refining their skills, knowledge. (If they think they already know everything, look out.)

Also, why should the opinion of anyone that fits a different orientation be of any less value? There's plenty of sub, slaves, bottoms, etc. that have more time in the lifestyle than some dominants, tops, or switches. You can learn just as easily from them. I know I have. Don't discount the websites provided. I've got them bookmarked for a good read later after work tonight. Hope mine gave you some pointers.


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!"

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 12:57:13 PM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jezabelKH

quote:

ORIGINAL: KennelDeSade2

Depends on how you define BDSM.  The current scene lifestyle culture has been extant since about 1970


KennelDeSade2,

Could You please site Your source for the 1970 quote. i personally know people who have had a 24/7, BDSM, Poly Leather Family since 1956......my Father and His friends. So Your quote on 1970 does not make since, actually i find it rather odd.

jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken


You wouldn't happen to be from the Dakota/Montana area would you?
I knew a girl who was raised as a slave back in the 50's, but the "BDSM Family" she was raised in, was just that.  They didn't have any ancient traditions dating back hundreds of years, they where just an incestuous group of like minded perverts and child molesters Put a tutu on a pig, it does not become a ballerina.

The scene. A group of meaningful size and organization with common purpose or goals, inclusive and hetro/pan sexual. Not a bunch of gay bikers who never got over not being in the Army any more.


New York City's Eulenspiegel Society — which was founded in 1971 and claims to be the oldest and largest BDSM support group in the U.S. — simultaneously claims that pursuing "joy and happiness in one's own evolving nature" is a basic human right and offers classes that teach safewords and the proper way to tie someone up. TES is a not-for-profit corporation which began as an informal association in the winter of 1971.

Much of the BDSM ethos can be traced back to gay male leather culture, which grew out of post-WWII biker culture. This subculture is epitomized by the Leatherman's Handbook by Larry Townsend, published in 1972, which essentially defined the "Old Guard leather " culture.

First, a bit of historical perspective will be more helpful than you might guess. '0ld Guard' is really a misnomer - a misapplied name - for the earliest set of habits that jelled by the mid- to late 1950s in the men's leather community here in the U . S.

The truth is that the Old Guard as is it conceived and spoken of today is mostly myth. Some of the forms are genuine and have history, but they never had the kind of universal acceptance and weight they are given in "memory." That is not a problem! If inventing a way of life that is loosely (and sometimes comically so) based on the behaviors of the "Old Guard" results in a myth that can breathe and have value in the lives of leathermen today, so be it.

Eulenspiegel Society http://www.tes.org/
http://www.nerve.com/regulars/singlelife/008/printcopy.asp
http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/boards/generalbdsm/36973/
http://www.evilmonk.org/A/oldguard.cfm
http://www.evilmonk.org/A/jwbean.cfm
http://www.evilmonk.org/A/rinella.cfm
http://www.darkangel.com/kinks-protocol.html


_____________________________

Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 1:07:17 PM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jezabelKH

Thank you for your response. I was wanting a more personal touch on the subject, I wanted to hear about individual or BDSM community "history" or "traditions" or "knowledge" from BDSM Masters and Mistresses. And How their "history" or "traditions" or "knowledge" compare to the original quote.  To be specific in response to items #1-#4. There maybe that should clarify the question more.


Found it at last.  All it took was having a Baptist. . . strike that, Gorean ask for chapter and verse, and the books all stand up on their shelves once more.

May I present;  

http://www.geocities.com/daggerdom/transgressionmanual.html

DAGGERDOM’S MANUAL OF TRANSGRESSIONISM By Charles W. Cosimano


The Transgressionist Manifesto  
We are not old, obsolete guard, nor are we new guard.  We are beyond such petty labels.   
We follow no rules, save those it serves our purposes for the moment to do so, in accord with the practice of expediency.  
We respect no authority and defer to no pretended hierarchy.  
We despise tradition, that stinking collection of moldy walls and incontinent briefs that need changing.  It has no place in our lives save as a source of never-ending ridicule and laughter.  
We do not fear and we cannot be intimidated.  We refuse to live in hiding, cowering like frightened animals.  
We do not give a damn about community nor its image.  We will never allow ourselves to be controlled by such considerations.  Rather we defend the right of the individual to follow his own path and make his own decisions, to express his lifestyle by whatever definition he so chooses without regard to any external consideration.  
We do not defend our lifestyle to the despised vanillas.  We make them defend their lifestyle to us.  
We admire skill, wit and daring.   
We are the Outlaws.  
We are the Anarchists  
We are the Future.




_____________________________

Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 1:13:46 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		thank You i agree, honorifics are used when people have earned them out of respect, not to be used on demand.

sincerely,
jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 1:21:50 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KennelDeSade2

You wouldn't happen to be from the Dakota/Montana area would you?
I knew a girl who was raised as a slave back in the 50's, but the "BDSM Family" she was raised in, was just that.  They didn't have any ancient traditions dating back hundreds of years, they where just an incestuous group of like minded perverts and child molesters Put a tutu on a pig, it does not become a ballerina.




No i am not from the Dakota/Montana area. And unlike your example i did NOT grow up in a incestuous group of like minded perverts and child molesters, i find this subject to be distasteful and the two above mentioned segments have not nor will they ever have a connection to M/s, BDSM, Poly and are certainly not suitable topics or comments for collarme.com.

(in reply to KennelDeSade2)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 1:30:10 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for sharing transgressionism, a small segment of the BDSM culture. But as the author said
 
The views and opinions expressed in this work are those of the author and do not reflect the views or opinions of any group, organization or other individual.   I need to say that because this book is going to really piss people off.

© Charles W. Cosimano 2002
 
i think you will find this line of thought to the extreme, but i will let everyone choose their own thought process on the matter.

What is transgressionism?

Transgressionism is the breaking of rules for the sake of breaking the rules, raising hell for the joy of raising hell and in all ways regarding convention as something contemptible, worthy only of disdain and ultimate destruction.  Transgressionists are radical individualists and libertarians who do not suffer control lightly.  Even if we practice it in our BDSM relationships, we do not allow others to impose their ways and regulations upon us, but will always work to remove such regulations by whatever means prove to be expedient.

For the Transgressionist, the only rule is that there are no rules and those systems set up by others to impose their rules are fair game, as are those who would establish them.  Or, as the saying goes, “Rules are made to be broken along with the heads of those who make them.”  Transgressionists respect no hierarchy and defer to no authority.

 

(in reply to KennelDeSade2)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 1:35:29 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Hehe looks like someone likes to play school marm... come off it jez.. if anyone really cared enough about your thread to hijack it, let me assure you, it would be done before you could whip out your ruler to thwack a single knuckle... where is benji???  Here boy!!

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/11/2006 1:45:38 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		please stay on topic

p.s. and it is jezabel{KH} not jez, only my friends may call me that, i am asking no more or no less than you have asked of your name in other post puella

< Message edited by jezabelKH -- 7/11/2006 1:48:11 PM >

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 80
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