RE: Eric Cantor defeated!

RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/12/2014 7:53:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Even the legal process doesn't do the "line" sensibly. For example, if you do everything legally, say, join your (legally here) parents in the US--and the wait can be a decade or more--but if you reach age 21 while waiting, now you have a different status, and you go to the back of the line again, just for aging out. That's just one of quirks in this tangle of immigration laws that desperately need reform -- even Bush II was harping on this. Absolutely. Most on the right (this is not a comment about anything those on the left are for or not for) don't have a problem with improving the legal immigration process. Most don't have an issue increasing legal immigration. Opposing illegal immigration, and/or amnesty for those illegally here, is not opposing immigration in toto, regardless of what nonsense some posters here continue to spout.

cloudboy -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/12/2014 9:30:17 PM)
What I'm saying is Congress can solve the problem. You have punitive "they're in the wrong" mindset that allows for no solutions or creative thinking. You are stuck in the laws on the books and are against reforms and new laws. Me, I want workable solutions that contribute to family unity, economic investment, economic growth, and a healthier housing market. I want to unleash peoples' potential -- you want to stifle it through regulation, outdated laws, and expensive imprisonments and deportations. Unfortunately, you are succeeding.

DomKen -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/12/2014 9:36:51 PM)
First, does anyone really think we can really deport or any other really effective manner penalize the existing undocumented immigrants? Any reform has to begin with finding a way to regularize their status.

cloudboy -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/12/2014 9:38:49 PM)
The overriding impact of immigrants is to strengthen and enrich American culture, increase the total output of the economy, and raise the standard of living of American citizens. Immigrants are advantageous to the United States for several reasons: (1) Since they are willing to take a chance in a new land, they are self-selected on the basis on motivation, risk taking, work ethic, and other attributes beneficial to a nation. (2) They tend to come to the United States during their prime working years (the average age is 28), and they contribute to the workforce and make huge net contributions to old-age entitlement programs, primarily Social Security. (3) Immigrants tend to fill niches in the labor market where demand is highest relative to supply, complementing rather than directly competing with American workers. (4) Many immigrants arrive with extremely high skill levels, and virtually all, regardless of skill level, bring a strong desire to work. (5) Their children tend to reach high levels of achievement in American schools and in society at large. http://www.cato.org/research/immigration Democrats, Business Republicans, The Bushes (all), Catholics, and Evangelical all want immigration reform.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/12/2014 11:59:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy What I'm saying is Congress can solve the problem. You have punitive "they're in the wrong" mindset that allows for no solutions or creative thinking. You are stuck in the laws on the books and are against reforms and new laws. Completely wrong. quote: Me, I want workable solutions that contribute to family unity, economic investment, economic growth, and a healthier housing market. I want to unleash peoples' potential -- you want to stifle it through regulation, outdated laws, and expensive imprisonments and deportations. Unfortunately, you are succeeding. If we are not a nation of laws, then, what are we? I want people who are going to respect our laws. I want everyone who wants to become a US Citizen the opportunity to become a US Citizen. I want foreigners (defined as "not US Citizens") who want to work and/or study in the US, to have the opportunity to work and/or study in the US. We have rules as to how you join either of those two groups. If you can't follow those rules, then, you don't get to jump ahead of those that can and do follow those rules. As far as reform goes, we need to make it easier for people to immigrate. We need to not put a cap on the number of immigrants allowed per year. Reform can, and should, update our immigration laws. To cut down on illegal immigration, we definitely need to close the borders, make sure our "don't fucking hire illegals" laws have teeth, and make it easier for people to legally immigrate. Accusing people of opposing immigration simply because they don't want those currently here illegally to be granted the status that some have been waiting years to legally gain, is wrong on it's face. You know it, too. It's funny how you think I want to stifle people's potential through regulation. That is exactly what you support in most other areas.

cloudboy -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 9:56:37 AM)
You're big government man on Immigration. Believe me, I have a first hand view of what regulation looks like from my law practice in the field. The current regulations / laws are separating families and preventing investment and a vibrant work force from taking root. The last immigration act passed was in 1994. No wonder it's working poorly now, it's 20 years outdated. The backlog of cases before the Immigration Court is now 24 months for a case to be heard. The line is getting longer. Congress could clear this mess up -- but a small minority of ignorant, hateful, tighty-whitey tea party Republicans is holding everyone hostage. BTW: Most libertarians are ready to side with the CATO INSTITUTE.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 10:34:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy You're big government man on Immigration. Believe me, I have a first hand view of what regulation looks like from my law practice in the field. The current regulations / laws are separating families and preventing investment and a vibrant work force from taking root. The last immigration act passed was in 1994. No wonder it's working poorly now, it's 20 years outdated. The backlog of cases before the Immigration Court is now 24 months for a case to be heard. The line is getting longer. Congress could clear this mess up -- but a small minority of ignorant, hateful, tighty-whitey tea party Republicans is holding everyone hostage. BTW: Most libertarians are ready to side with the CATO INSTITUTE. How is getting rid of illegal immigrants, reducing illegal immigration and increasing legal immigration (by making it easier to navigate and get through) preventing a vibrant work force from taking root, preventing investment and separating families? Doesn't the fact that illegal immigrants have broken the law not count at all towards their actions breaking up their families? Are other criminals who are incarcerated wrongly having their families separated by government, too?

mnottertail -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 10:55:27 AM)
Well, the illegal immigrant is a breaker of civil law. The corporations that employ them break criminal and civil law. You want illegal immigration done and over with? Arrest Corporation executives all the way down the line, and levy massive fines and jailtime against them, the issue will resolve itself in a little less than an hour.

cloudboy -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 11:11:40 AM)
Quit speaking in euphemisms: "getting rid of illegal immigrants" (1) You want massive incarcerations, legal battles, and deportations. (2) You want to let the problem fester unsolved. (3) You want new, updated laws to unite families, help businesses, and spur economic growth while collecting fines and saving money on enforcement PICK ONE P.S. Quit confusing criminal law with administrative law.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 12:46:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Quit speaking in euphemisms: "getting rid of illegal immigrants" (1) You want massive incarcerations, legal battles, and deportations. (2) You want to let the problem fester unsolved. (3) You want new, updated laws to unite families, help businesses, and spur economic growth while collecting fines and saving money on enforcement PICK ONE P.S. Quit confusing criminal law with administrative law. (4) New, updated laws that increase and streamline legal immigration channels, increase penalties for businesses that hire illegals, secure our borders, and punishes illegal immigrants.

mnottertail -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 12:48:32 PM)
punishing the illegal immigrants is a waste of our time, and treasure. Jail and fine the corporations. Simple, streamlined and absolutely effective

DomKen -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 2:11:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri punishes illegal immigrants. How? Keep in mind the number involved.

Musicmystery -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 2:20:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri punishes illegal immigrants. How? Keep in mind the number involved. Borrow and spend, of course. The mantra of the right.

mnottertail -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 2:21:20 PM)
BIG government by the right.

Sanity -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 2:33:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri (4) New, updated laws that increase and streamline legal immigration channels, increase penalties for businesses that hire illegals, secure our borders, and punishes illegal immigrants. What is the sense in trying to pass new laws if the laws that are in place are only selectively enforced?

Musicmystery -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 2:35:57 PM)
Congress is going to have to wake to the reality that regulations cost enforcement money. That means selective enforcement or revenue enhancement. It's hardly a new concept -- sometimes the police go after everyone driving faster than, say, 72. It's selective enforcement -- they don't sit there nailing everyone going 56 in a 55 or 33 in a 30. It would cost a fortune (and clog the courts, costing even more).

dcnovice -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 2:37:34 PM)
quote: A Great Day for the U S A ! Not to be a killjoy, but that depends on who gets the seat. As a wise friend pointed out, "When the Tea Party wins, America loses."

mnottertail -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 2:47:54 PM)
But we will be able to guffaw at the antics of these rapscallions all fall!!!!!

Sanity -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 4:17:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Congress is going to have to wake to the reality that regulations cost enforcement money. That means selective enforcement or revenue enhancement. It's hardly a new concept -- sometimes the police go after everyone driving faster than, say, 72. It's selective enforcement -- they don't sit there nailing everyone going 56 in a 55 or 33 in a 30. It would cost a fortune (and clog the courts, costing even more). The selective enforcement on Obamas part that I am concerned with here is politically motivated, it has nothing to do with budget concerns. He is striving to bring in more Democrat voters at the expense of the rest of the nation, according to what he tells fellow Democrats at his fundraisers The money for enforcing the immigration statutes has already been budgeted a very long time ago.

Musicmystery -> RE: Eric Cantor defeated! (6/13/2014 4:23:41 PM)
The "child abuse" for finding shelter for these immigrants is politically motivated as well, with little to do with the realities of immigration policies from the Deporter in Chief. It's striving to bring in more Republican donors at the expense of the rest of the nation. NOTHING in the federal government has been budgeted for a very long time. That's why enforcement is lax in several areas.

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