quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Which is as I've proven plain bullshit. Now you're trying to change the subject and act like you weren't spreading complete nonsense just up this very page.

No I am trying to get us back on subject.
And for the upteenth time I didn't care if it had any legal backing,
they posted they didn't want my business so they don't get it any more.
The rest of the ccw holders that I know felt the same way.
For us it did not take the weight of law to get us to comply, it simply took their announcement that they didn't respect our right to carry.
Unless your memory is a faulty as usual that stance is what started your tirade. We obey those requests, criminals don't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Which is as I've proven plain bullshit. Now you're trying to change the subject and act like you weren't spreading complete nonsense just up this very page.

No I am trying to get us back on subject.
And for the upteenth time I didn't care if it had any legal backing,
they posted they didn't want my business so they don't get it any more.
The rest of the ccw holders that I know felt the same way.
For us it did not take the weight of law to get us to comply, it simply took their announcement that they didn't respect our right to carry.
Unless your memory is a faulty as usual that stance is what started your tirade. We obey those requests, criminals don't.

No it did not. Go look. You're as usual making shit up. What started this was you tossing out  a fallacy at GotSteel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Which is as I've proven plain bullshit. Now you're trying to change the subject and act like you weren't spreading complete nonsense just up this very page.

No I am trying to get us back on subject.
And for the upteenth time I didn't care if it had any legal backing,
they posted they didn't want my business so they don't get it any more.
The rest of the ccw holders that I know felt the same way.
For us it did not take the weight of law to get us to comply, it simply took their announcement that they didn't respect our right to carry.
Unless your memory is a faulty as usual that stance is what started your tirade. We obey those requests, criminals don't.

No it did not. Go look. You're as usual making shit up. What started this was you tossing out  a fallacy at GotSteel.

No gotsteel came into the middle of the conversation and thought, in large part due to your distortions that I was saying something I didn't say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Which is as I've proven plain bullshit. Now you're trying to change the subject and act like you weren't spreading complete nonsense just up this very page.

No I am trying to get us back on subject.
And for the upteenth time I didn't care if it had any legal backing,
they posted they didn't want my business so they don't get it any more.
The rest of the ccw holders that I know felt the same way.
For us it did not take the weight of law to get us to comply, it simply took their announcement that they didn't respect our right to carry.
Unless your memory is a faulty as usual that stance is what started your tirade. We obey those requests, criminals don't.

No it did not. Go look. You're as usual making shit up. What started this was you tossing out  a fallacy at GotSteel.

No gotsteel came into the middle of the conversation and thought, in large part due to your distortions that I was saying something I didn't say.

Nope. You're very confused. Go look.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You made this post:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

It had no reference whatever to any gas station or you taking your business elsewhere or any such crap. You where confused about a point of logic then and remain so now.

This has all been about making fun of your detachment from reality. Just like in the other thread where you thought things that had happened hadn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

really, so you mean any private citizen can just HANG A SIGN and it CHANGES THE LAWS?

so if I put a sign in my back yard declaring pot is legal here that changes the LAW?

what if I put a sign in my place of business that says negro free zone, does that mean if a negro enters my place he is doing so illegally?

OPPSSS talk about a FALLACY

what a surprise Mr I am smarter than you doesn't know the difference between a store POLICY, and an actual LAW.

so what would the police charge a man with who DID enter such a place with his/her gun? bet its not ILLEGAL gun ANYTHING, unless the person was breaking some gun law PRIOR to entering said store, maybe disturbing the peace or trespassing

Mr I Am Smarter Than You doesn't know as much as he thinks he does on any given subject but he made a lucky guess this time. It is my understanding that if a business posts a sign that reads no guns then the law stands with the business and you would be breaking it to come in armed. I'm not sure exactly what they would charge you with assuming you were caught packing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

really, so you mean any private citizen can just HANG A SIGN and it CHANGES THE LAWS?

so if I put a sign in my back yard declaring pot is legal here that changes the LAW?

what if I put a sign in my place of business that says negro free zone, does that mean if a negro enters my place he is doing so illegally?

OPPSSS talk about a FALLACY

what a surprise Mr I am smarter than you doesn't know the difference between a store POLICY, and an actual LAW.

so what would the police charge a man with who DID enter such a place with his/her gun? bet its not ILLEGAL gun ANYTHING, unless the person was breaking some gun law PRIOR to entering said store, maybe disturbing the peace or trespassing

Mr I Am Smarter Than You doesn't know as much as he thinks he does on any given subject but he made a lucky guess this time. It is my understanding that if a business posts a sign that reads no guns then the law stands with the business and you would be breaking it to come in armed. I'm not sure exactly what they would charge you with assuming you were caught packing.

well actually NO HE DID NOT...

he said and I quote, "anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally"

but the charge/ticket would have ZERO to do with carrying a gun, unless said person was doing something illegal with a gun regardless of any signs

when a private property owner asks you to leave his property for ANY REASON, and you REFUSE, you are TRESPASSING, so the sign carries ZERO LEGAL WEIGHT
if you refuse to leave even when the police are called it COULD escalate to disturbing the peace...

unless you do something STUPID with the previously mentioned GUN, there will be ZERO GUN CHARGES!

so to SUM UP, if said person ISN"T CARYING LEGALLY, there WOULD BE A GUN CHARGE!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

really, so you mean any private citizen can just HANG A SIGN and it CHANGES THE LAWS?

so if I put a sign in my back yard declaring pot is legal here that changes the LAW?

what if I put a sign in my place of business that says negro free zone, does that mean if a negro enters my place he is doing so illegally?

OPPSSS talk about a FALLACY

what a surprise Mr I am smarter than you doesn't know the difference between a store POLICY, and an actual LAW.

so what would the police charge a man with who DID enter such a place with his/her gun? bet its not ILLEGAL gun ANYTHING, unless the person was breaking some gun law PRIOR to entering said store, maybe disturbing the peace or trespassing

Mr I Am Smarter Than You doesn't know as much as he thinks he does on any given subject but he made a lucky guess this time. It is my understanding that if a business posts a sign that reads no guns then the law stands with the business and you would be breaking it to come in armed. I'm not sure exactly what they would charge you with assuming you were caught packing.

As I told him the first time you are ordered to leave the second time they can get a restraining order to stay away from the store. If you violate the order you can be charged. That is just in Alabama, I don't claim to know about other places. The no open carry signs (with which I have no problem) have more teeth. If you open carry, it is legal, however if a gunaphobic like Ken freaks out you can be charged with disturbing the peace. However if you carry concealed there is no problem. (except in Kens world). Though law enforcement would likely back the owner and make you leave the sign itself does not make it law.

Alabama law says
http://www.ago.state.al.us/File-Alabama-Weapon-Laws

quote:


§ 13A-11-61.2
Possession of firearms in certain places.
(a) In addition to any other place limited or prohibited by state or federal law, a person, including a person with a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85, may not knowingly possess or carry a firearm in any of the following places without the express permission of a person or entity with authority over the premises:
(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a), a person, including a person with a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85, may not, without the express permission of a person or entity with authority over the premises, knowingly possess or carry a firearm inside any building or facility to which access of unauthorized persons and prohibited articles is limited during normal hours of operation by the continuous posting of guards and the use of other security features, including, but not limited to, magnetometers, key cards, biometric screening devices, or turnstiles or other physical barriers.
(c) The person or entity with authority over the premises set forth in subsections (a)(1)-(6) and subsection (b) shall place a notice at the public entrances of such premises or buildings alerting those entering that firearms are prohibited.
(d) Except as provided in subsections (a)(5) and (a)(6), any firearm on the premises of any facility set forth in subsection (a)(1), or subsections (a)(4)-(6), or subsection (b) must be kept from ordinary observation and locked within a compartment or in the interior of the person's motor vehicle or in a compartment or container securely affixed to the motor vehicle.
(e) A violation of subsections (a) or (d) is a Class C misdemeanor.

Nothing about warnings. You stay out or you broke the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Nothing about warnings. You stay out or you broke the law.

Do you read every notice on the window of every gas station you go into.
I told you how it actually works.
I also told you that every ccs holder I know just takes their business elsewhere. As I told them when they first put up the sign. Since they didn't want my business they wouldn't get it. I and the other ccw holders decided that if they wanted to guarantee the safety of holdup men we wouldn't try to stop them. They didn't want non criminals coming in with guns and they got exactly what they asked for, the only one to come in with a gun was a criminal.
As usual you choose a minor point to try to make a big deal of. That no firearms sign really provided a lot of protection.

You made a claim that was wrong. I proved you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and you couldn't simply own that fact.

Own it dumbass. A property owner does have the right to tell you to keep off his property if you are carrying. And if you don't respect that order you have broken the law.

And since you claim to be a CCW permit holder you should know the law since you are required to be in compliance. In Alabama that means only carrying where allowed. Beyond posted private businesses there are numerous other buildings where you are barred from carrying automatically. Do you know what they are?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Nothing about warnings. You stay out or you broke the law.

Do you read every notice on the window of every gas station you go into.
I told you how it actually works.
I also told you that every ccs holder I know just takes their business elsewhere. As I told them when they first put up the sign. Since they didn't want my business they wouldn't get it. I and the other ccw holders decided that if they wanted to guarantee the safety of holdup men we wouldn't try to stop them. They didn't want non criminals coming in with guns and they got exactly what they asked for, the only one to come in with a gun was a criminal.
As usual you choose a minor point to try to make a big deal of. That no firearms sign really provided a lot of protection.

You made a claim that was wrong. I proved you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and you couldn't simply own that fact.

Own it dumbass. A property owner does have the right to tell you to keep off his property if you are carrying. And if you don't respect that order you have broken the law.

And since you claim to be a CCW permit holder you should know the law since you are required to be in compliance. In Alabama that means only carrying where allowed. Beyond posted private businesses there are numerous other buildings where you are barred from carrying automatically. Do you know what they are?

I have only said about a dozen times that as soon as they posted this I took my business elsewhere, since you can't seem to understand this means that I (and every ccw holder I know) didn't care whether it was backed by law we quit going in there. This means THAT I DIDN'T VIOLATE THE LAW AND DIDN'T IGNORE THE POLICY. That of course doesn't matter to you because you think you can win one. I will quote the cop who told me about the hold up when I mentioned that their no gun policy didn't help them "this time it hurt them" . I don't know the details but I will take his word for it. (the cop was black so he can be trusted).

You claimed

quote:

Funny isn't it that all they can do is ask you to leave.
If you persist in going in with a firearm, and they know it they can
go for disturbing the peace, but not the first time. I already checked it out.
Funny how you come up with the most extreme interpretation of any law that hurts gun owners. Like when you tried to tell me that if someone comes on my property causing trouble if I let them know I have a gun I am guilty of assault when the law specifically says the opposite.

Which is as I've proven plain bullshit. Now you're trying to change the subject and act like you weren't spreading complete nonsense just up this very page.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

and OPSS you CONVEINIENTLY decided to leave out LIST of "any of the following places" as set forth is subsection (a) (1)-(6) which is quite SPECIFIC about which places it includes...

but OPPPSSS gas stations and 7-11's and grocery stores were NOT ON THE LIST

upon rereading YOUR POST and the ACTUAL DOCUMENT, you intentionally EDITED OUT subsection (a) (1)-(6) so as to make it VAGUE about what places were covered

a LIE by OMMISION is STILL A LIE!

SOP

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

and OPSS you CONVEINIENTLY decided to leave out LIST of "any of the following places" as set forth is subsection (a) (1)-(6) which is quite SPECIFIC about which places it includes...

but OPPPSSS gas stations and 7-11's and grocery stores were NOT ON THE LIST

upon rereading YOUR POST and the ACTUAL DOCUMENT, you intentionally EDITED OUT subsection (a) (1)-(6) so as to make it VAGUE about what places were covered

a LIE by OMMISION is STILL A LIE!

SOP

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

and OPSS you CONVEINIENTLY decided to leave out LIST of "any of the following places" as set forth is subsection (a) (1)-(6) which is quite SPECIFIC about which places it includes...

but OPPPSSS gas stations and 7-11's and grocery stores were NOT ON THE LIST

upon rereading YOUR POST and the ACTUAL DOCUMENT, you intentionally EDITED OUT subsection (a) (1)-(6) so as to make it VAGUE about what places were covered

a LIE by OMMISION is STILL A LIE!

SOP

Did that idiot bitaykin try and read a law and think he found something? I knew I should have explained the law for the dimwitted.
The law in question has two sections (a) and (b). (a) lists six specific places where you cannot carry at all no matter what. Section (b) says any place that has any form of access control whatsoever (which obviously includes doors) requires the express permission of someone with authority over the building to let anyone carry in the building. Section (c) says the building can post a sign saying no guns and you can't bring a gun inside.

You really shouldn't believe the dumbest poster on the site.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

and OPSS you CONVEINIENTLY decided to leave out LIST of "any of the following places" as set forth is subsection (a) (1)-(6) which is quite SPECIFIC about which places it includes...

but OPPPSSS gas stations and 7-11's and grocery stores were NOT ON THE LIST

upon rereading YOUR POST and the ACTUAL DOCUMENT, you intentionally EDITED OUT subsection (a) (1)-(6) so as to make it VAGUE about what places were covered

a LIE by OMMISION is STILL A LIE!

SOP

Did that idiot bitaykin try and read a law and think he found something? I knew I should have explained the law for the dimwitted.
The law in question has two sections (a) and (b). (a) lists six specific places where you cannot carry at all no matter what. Section (b) says any place that has any form of access control whatsoever (which obviously includes doors) requires the express permission of someone with authority over the building to let anyone carry in the building. Section (c) says the building can post a sign saying no guns and you can't bring a gun inside.

You really shouldn't believe the dumbest poster on the site.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

and OPSS you CONVEINIENTLY decided to leave out LIST of "any of the following places" as set forth is subsection (a) (1)-(6) which is quite SPECIFIC about which places it includes...

but OPPPSSS gas stations and 7-11's and grocery stores were NOT ON THE LIST

upon rereading YOUR POST and the ACTUAL DOCUMENT, you intentionally EDITED OUT subsection (a) (1)-(6) so as to make it VAGUE about what places were covered

a LIE by OMMISION is STILL A LIE!

SOP

Did that idiot bitaykin try and read a law and think he found something? I knew I should have explained the law for the dimwitted.
The law in question has two sections (a) and (b). (a) lists six specific places where you cannot carry at all no matter what. Section (b) says any place that has any form of access control whatsoever (which obviously includes doors) requires the express permission of someone with authority over the building to let anyone carry in the building. Section (c) says the building can post a sign saying no guns and you can't bring a gun inside.

You really shouldn't believe the dumbest poster on the site.

Which means that they can ask you to leave. No felony, nothing to affect your right to carry. And as I have said repeatedly the normal reaction is to take your business elsewhere. It was mine.
He can't be the dumbest poster as long as you are here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

and OPSS you CONVEINIENTLY decided to leave out LIST of "any of the following places" as set forth is subsection (a) (1)-(6) which is quite SPECIFIC about which places it includes...

but OPPPSSS gas stations and 7-11's and grocery stores were NOT ON THE LIST

upon rereading YOUR POST and the ACTUAL DOCUMENT, you intentionally EDITED OUT subsection (a) (1)-(6) so as to make it VAGUE about what places were covered

a LIE by OMMISION is STILL A LIE!

SOP

Did that idiot bitaykin try and read a law and think he found something? I knew I should have explained the law for the dimwitted.
The law in question has two sections (a) and (b). (a) lists six specific places where you cannot carry at all no matter what. Section (b) says any place that has any form of access control whatsoever (which obviously includes doors) requires the express permission of someone with authority over the building to let anyone carry in the building. Section (c) says the building can post a sign saying no guns and you can't bring a gun inside.

You really shouldn't believe the dumbest poster on the site.

Which means that they can ask you to leave. No felony, nothing to affect your right to carry. And as I have said repeatedly the normal reaction is to take your business elsewhere. It was mine.
He can't be the dumbest poster as long as you are here.

Actually it is a C misdemeanor as my post makes clear. And that does affect your CCW. Since it is a weapons violation. And if you read the Alabama permit requirement the local Sheriff is required to revoke your permit if he "
has a reasonable suspicion that the person may use a weapon unlawfully or in such other manner that would endanger the person's self or others." Committing that C misdemeanor qualifies as unlawful use.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

and OPSS you CONVEINIENTLY decided to leave out LIST of "any of the following places" as set forth is subsection (a) (1)-(6) which is quite SPECIFIC about which places it includes...

but OPPPSSS gas stations and 7-11's and grocery stores were NOT ON THE LIST

upon rereading YOUR POST and the ACTUAL DOCUMENT, you intentionally EDITED OUT subsection (a) (1)-(6) so as to make it VAGUE about what places were covered

a LIE by OMMISION is STILL A LIE!

SOP

Did that idiot bitaykin try and read a law and think he found something? I knew I should have explained the law for the dimwitted.
The law in question has two sections (a) and (b). (a) lists six specific places where you cannot carry at all no matter what. Section (b) says any place that has any form of access control whatsoever (which obviously includes doors) requires the express permission of someone with authority over the building to let anyone carry in the building. Section (c) says the building can post a sign saying no guns and you can't bring a gun inside.

You really shouldn't believe the dumbest poster on the site.

Which means that they can ask you to leave. No felony, nothing to affect your right to carry. And as I have said repeatedly the normal reaction is to take your business elsewhere. It was mine.
He can't be the dumbest poster as long as you are here.

Actually it is a C misdemeanor as my post makes clear. And that does affect your CCW. Since it is a weapons violation. And if you read the Alabama permit requirement the local Sheriff is required to revoke your permit if he "
has a reasonable suspicion that the person may use a weapon unlawfully or in such other manner that would endanger the person's self or others." Committing that C misdemeanor qualifies as unlawful use.

Walking into a gas station with a concealed weapon which you never touch does not give the sheriff any reason to think you are endangering anyone.