quote:

This is because The International Community of the Ever So Caring and Sensitive (ICOTESCAS, Marca Registrada) Cannot admit that Islam - as a complete political, social, and legal system - is different in kind from every other _major_ religion, such that it is questionable - I believe impossible - to be both a devout Muslim and a good citizen. (You can be a fine citizen and a crappy Muslim, however.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
If you don't want the violence, then don't commit it in the first place, end of story.

Until the WABAC machine is developed (why can't we say we're going to develop one and then be able to use it immediately, like in the movies?), we can't "un-commit" the violence in the first place. It's done. It's over. It's been written about in history books (may have even been taught, but might not have been taught correctly).
What do we do, going forward, to help foment peace in the Middle East?

I don't have a good idea about what to do 'going forward' after such an extent of going backwards that got us to this point. I'm completely out of my league in the situation we have now, and much smarter people than I said they feel the same way.
I understand your point, but at the same time, just as with the financial debacle, the people who kept telling us not to go this route said that if whatever ill-advised venture went forward against their advice, they counseled that neither they nor anyone they knew of would know how to get us out of the near-guaranteed mess resulting. Which is why they (ironically enough) advised against such action.
So since they told you beforehand that if you proceeded against their advice and told you very honestly that they wouldn't know what to do about it afterwards if you proceeded anyway ....
Why are you asking?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
Would one of you brilliant people stop telling me why it is all the fault of the U S, and how taking any military action is so evil and tell me how you are going to establish these schools when going to one or teaching in one is a capital offense.

It's not a matter of whose fault it is. Maybe the US does share some portion of fault in all of this, but one of you brilliant people might consider explaining why all of this is the responsibility of the US that we are the only ones who can stop this "evil."

That's pretty much what's being said: If "we" don't face up to and stop this "evil," then nobody else will, it will spread and eventually cover the whole Middle East, and then the entire world...just like The Blob.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is because The International Community of the Ever So Caring and Sensitive (ICOTESCAS, Marca Registrada) Cannot admit that Islam - as a complete political, social, and legal system - is different in kind from every other _major_ religion, such that it is questionable - I believe impossible - to be both a devout Muslim and a good citizen. (You can be a fine citizen and a crappy Muslim, however.

This just isn't a convincing appraisal, Aylee. If anything, devoutness is a guard against terrorist inclinations and being a 'crappy Muslim' is in fact a characteristic of Jihadi madness and violence, it seems. Hence,

"In 2008, a classified briefing note on radicalisation, prepared by MI5's behavioural science unit, was leaked to the Guardian. It revealed that, "far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could . . . be regarded as religious novices." The analysts concluded that "a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation", the newspaper said."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/jihadist-radicalisation-islam-for-dummies_b_5697160.html

And, once again, you are focusing on the periphery and not the core. That is, you're zeroing in on the loud and aggressive extremes and not the millions of Muslims living amongst us and committing no greater crime that wearing kind of bizarre looking clothes. The way you talk, I'd expect to have been killed by now by my local corner shopkeeper. The worst he's ever done, though, is forgotten to say 'Thank you' when I've paid for my groceries.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is because The International Community of the Ever So Caring and Sensitive (ICOTESCAS, Marca Registrada) Cannot admit that Islam - as a complete political, social, and legal system - is different in kind from every other _major_ religion, such that it is questionable - I believe impossible - to be both a devout Muslim and a good citizen. (You can be a fine citizen and a crappy Muslim, however.

This just isn't a convincing appraisal, Aylee. If anything, devoutness is a guard against terrorist inclinations and being a 'crappy Muslim' is in fact a characteristic of Jihadi madness and violence, it seems. Hence,

"In 2008, a classified briefing note on radicalisation, prepared by MI5's behavioural science unit, was leaked to the Guardian. It revealed that, "far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could . . . be regarded as religious novices." The analysts concluded that "a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation", the newspaper said."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/jihadist-radicalisation-islam-for-dummies_b_5697160.html

And, once again, you are focusing on the periphery and not the core. That is, you're zeroing in on the loud and aggressive extremes and not the millions of Muslims living amongst us and committing no greater crime that wearing kind of bizarre looking clothes. The way you talk, I'd expect to have been killed by now by my local corner shopkeeper. The worst he's ever done, though, is forgotten to say 'Thank you' when I've paid for my groceries.

She is focusing on the problem. You pretend that this is somehow attacking the ones who are not. You must have missed the post where she stated that there is a sect of Islam which is totally different from the problem.

quote:

As an exception to the above, there is a strain of Islam that really is capable of both devoutness and citizenship, but it is a small minority strain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Or the millions of people that don't kill, or the millions of people who dont drive drunk, or the millions of people who don't invade sovereign countries under false pretenses, or the millions of voters who don't commit voter fraud..........oh wait.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Or the millions of people that don't kill, or the millions of people who dont drive drunk, or the millions of people who don't invade sovereign countries under false pretenses, or the millions of voters who don't commit voter fraud..........oh wait.

Oh, forget it, Ron. We know how this works. Those looney extremist Christians - they're the exceptions. We must never, ever judge all Christians that way. Perish the thought. But those looney extremist Muslims - that's *all* Muslims, that is. Mr Patel who smiles and says 'How are you this morning?' as he sells you your newspaper - just don't inadvertently reveal to him the crucifix around your neck - cos, you know, all his cover will suddenly vanish, out will come his scimitar and you'll find your head rolling on the floor. Happens all the time in drugstores and corner shops in cities all over world. Only people who have been blinded by political correctness have failed to see this on a daily basis as they've popped out in the morning to buy their copy of the Raving Red Commie Anti-Freedom Daily.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Other than leftists, being sarcastic, who said anything like that?
I know I didn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Other than leftists, being sarcastic, who said anything like that?
I know I didn't.

This forum's full of those members of the right wing intelligentsia who have read the Koran and, as a result, feel themselves able to describe the character of every person across the world who calls him or herself a Muslim, Bama. You must have seen such people here. They are well-read, highly-educated, well-spoken - and absolute, unmitigated, bollocks-for-brains.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Good post. I read a memorable quote today about IRAQ from someone living in exile back in 2003. "Topple Saddam, and you'll end up with 1000 little Saddams."

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
If you don't want the violence, then don't commit it in the first place, end of story.

Until the WABAC machine is developed (why can't we say we're going to develop one and then be able to use it immediately, like in the movies?), we can't "un-commit" the violence in the first place. It's done. It's over. It's been written about in history books (may have even been taught, but might not have been taught correctly).
What do we do, going forward, to help foment peace in the Middle East?

I don't have a good idea about what to do 'going forward' after such an extent of going backwards that got us to this point. I'm completely out of my league in the situation we have now, and much smarter people than I said they feel the same way.
I understand your point, but at the same time, just as with the financial debacle, the people who kept telling us not to go this route said that if whatever ill-advised venture went forward against their advice, they counseled that neither they nor anyone they knew of would know how to get us out of the near-guaranteed mess resulting. Which is why they (ironically enough) advised against such action.
So since they told you beforehand that if you proceeded against their advice and told you very honestly that they wouldn't know what to do about it afterwards if you proceeded anyway ....
Why are you asking?

For the same reason we still seek to get answers about what we do now from the people who made the mess in the first place.

The point is, it's been done. While it would have been much, much better had we stayed out of it decades ago, we can't undo any of that, so saying that we shouldn't have done it isn't getting us any closer to a solution.

It's like the adage: "The best time to plant an oak tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is right now."

We don't have the luxury of not acting before. Now, we have to decide what to do not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
France has started air strikes in Iraq.
But we all know about their Spartanesque attitude toward war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
France has started air strikes in Iraq.
But we all know about their Spartanesque attitude toward war.

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

As a student of history, I am quite convinced that being on the same side as France is generally quite unsafe.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

As a student of history, I am quite convinced that being on the same side as France is generally quite unsafe.

There's a quote about France, probably arising from their reputation based upon their late entry into our revolution while promising help for years, all of WWI and most of WWII that goes: "The French. They're there, when they need you."







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?