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RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 12:30:47 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

That is because you do not comprehend that the strategy of sitting and waiting while doing nothing but playing defense has and always will fail.




Right.

So then the overthrowing of Árbenz in Guatemala, Mosaddegh in Iran, and incessant other violent intrusions into South America and the Middle East, most infamously the latest Iraq debacle, all of which actions created new armies upon newer armies of violent radical reactionaries, is considered by you to be "the strategy of sitting and waiting while doing nothing." Interesting, quite interesting. But in fact many of us would be curious how the 'strategy' of "doing nothing" would have played out in SA and the ME, since we quite provably and obviously have never, ever, done anything close to "sitting and waiting while doing nothing" in those regions in the last many decades.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/16/2014 12:39:23 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 12:39:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

That is because you do not comprehend that the strategy of sitting and waiting while doing nothing but playing defense has and always will fail.




Right.

So then the overthrowing of Árbenz in Guatemala, Mosaddegh in Iran, and incessant other violent intrusions into South America and the Middle East, most infamously the latest Iraq debacle, all of which actions created new armies upon newer armies of violent radical reactionaries, is considered by you to be "the strategy of sitting and waiting while doing nothing." Interesting, quite interesting. But in fact many of us would be curious how the 'strategy' of "doing nothing" would have played out in SA and the ME, since we've quite provably and obviously have never, ever, done anything close to "sitting and waiting while doing nothing" in those regions.



From a man who's personal code of conduct is run and hide.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 12:40:37 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

From a man who's personal code of conduct is run and hide.



From a man whose code is of conduct is to run and hide from the facts, and send others to die, for his own entertainment of watching 3+ trillion dollars of tax money burn in the desert and over 100,000 civilians expire, just in one episode.

That's as chickenshit as it gets.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/16/2014 1:13:00 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 1:12:31 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


From a man whose code is of conduct is to send others to die.

You must have missed the part were I pointed out that I volunteered during Vietnam.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 1:15:31 PM   
Edwynn


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No I didn't. All fine and well if you believed in that war, if you were actually in battle. But the current situations in the ME and S America have nothing to do with that.

And it still does nothing to disprove that you run and hide from the facts re the current situation in the ME and how it came about and who is directly responsible for it.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/16/2014 1:20:08 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 1:24:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


No I didn't. All fine and well if you believed in that war, if you were actually in battle. But the current situations in the ME and S America have nothing to do with that.

And it still does nothing to disprove that you run and hide from the facts re the current situation in the ME and how it came about and who is directly responsible for it.





You are a coward hiding behind a claim of high morals.
I was involved in the war on terror long before the government even admitted it existed.
I understand the people doing this better than you can ever hope to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 2:02:16 PM   
Edwynn


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Forget "high morals," you are the one hiding behind that mask, not me. I am only talking about the issue from the stand point of good sense or patent lack of same. I am not hiding behind a damn thing, I am presenting known history and known facts, which you incessantly refute for sake of your fantasy world.

Unless you understand that ME history since WWI is in fact one episode after another of the Western powers' folly (which you clearly don't), then you know squat.

That fact that you sit your ass at a keyboard and consider yourself 'brave' in calling someone whom you know nothing about in real life a coward, at safe distance of the internet, tells us all we need to know about your warped sense of rectitude.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 2:10:37 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


Forget "high morals," you are the one hiding behind that mask, not me. I am only talking about the issue from the stand point of good sense or patent lack of same. I am not hiding behind a damn thing, I am presenting known history and known facts, which you incessantly refute for sake of your fantasy world.

Unless you understand that ME history since WWI is in fact one episode after another of the Western powers' folly (which you clearly don't), then you know squat.

That fact that you sit your ass at a keyboard and consider yourself 'brave' in calling someone whom you know nothing about in real life a coward, at safe distance of the internet, tells us all we need to know about your warped sense of rectitude.



I have talked to you before and you revealed yourself as a person who will run and hide rather than stand and fight. You lack the ability to get inside the minds of people like ISIS, some times I wish I didn't understand them, which makes it impossible for you to comprehend them. You make it our fault because if it is our fault we can just stop doing the wrong thing and everything will be ok. You have made it clear that to you evil is just a word, I know it isn't.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 2:20:14 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:


You must have missed the part were I pointed out that I volunteered during Vietnam.


Why in God's name did you do that, Bama? The whole thing was a political cesspit from start to finish. Were you just not at all politically aware at the time?

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 2:40:15 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: BamaD

From a man who's personal code of conduct is run and hide.


This from a punk who wont go outside without two guns and a dog to protect him.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 2:49:07 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You must have missed the part were I pointed out that I volunteered during Vietnam.

For a desk job where your t.o. weapon was a clip board.

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 2:53:23 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

I have talked to you before and you revealed yourself as a person who will run and hide rather than stand and fight.

I have talked to you before and you revealed yourself as a person who will run and hide rather than stand and fight.



You lack the ability to get inside the minds of people like ISIS,

You lack the ability to form a cogent thought.


some times I wish I didn't understand them,

You dont understand which foot to put your shoes on if they were not marked.


You make it our fault because if it is our fault we can just stop doing the wrong thing and everything will be ok.

What part of the near east belongs to the u.s.?





(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 3:21:18 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Unlike you I understand Jihad


You dont even understand simple posts, let alone the bigger picture. You assume all Muslims are Jihadists or support Jihad. That makes your point invalid right from the start. Bush didnt even know the fucking difference between Sunni and Shia a week before the Iraq war, Blair probably did but wanted to leave his mark on history (You got your wish Tony) It is because of them and the advisors they used and puppets they installed that Iraq is in the mess it is today.

What gets me is the double standards of all those who cried for Obama to pull the troops from Iraq are now swapping opinions to absolve Bush and Blair.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 3:24:26 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

From a man who's personal code of conduct is run and hide.


Ironic from a man who hides people whose views he doesnt like.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 5:08:28 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Pick a side

how's that concept worked for you over the years?
Which side?
When?
For how long?

I guess it'll be the side you want, when you want it, for as long as you want it.

And then the cycle repeats, again and again until......peace!

Before you unload on me I am not excluding the UK from this cycle of bullshit, but it ain't working

How about the side that isn't beheading people, isn't selling them as sex slaves, isn't destroying everyone who isn't 100% in line with them, and hasn't declared you to be their next target? Seems like an easy choice.

you miss the point as usual, the OP was "The complicated road ahead" not "Bomb the fuckers"

Which side are you arming this time? The anti IS side, yeah I get that, but which side are you picking to fuck up IS?

Iraq? the Kurds? Syria? Iran? others?

Which is less likely to bite you in the ass in years to come or do you not care?


As usual you fail to comprehend that the military option is part of the equation.
You want it to be let's make sure nobody hurts the good guys (good guys being anyone who hates the west)

this is the 3rd time you have responded to my post, and each one has been more absurd than the last.

Stop ISIS, they are evil, got it,ok?

How? bomb them? brilliant, works every time. What happens after you bomb the fuck out of "whatever they call themselves this time"?

You were in Nam, bombing the shit out of everything, did that work?

No, it fucking didn't.

Military intervention kills people and puts a hold, temporarily on the assumed threats, but it is only ever a temporary solution.

If you put down your gun and engage your brain you might see that but all you see is
"You want it to be let's make sure nobody hurts the good guys (good guys being anyone who hates the west)"

How many times is the failure of killing people in foreign lands to protect your "god bless America" bullshit going to happen before people like you realise that every dead body brings forth more death and an endless cycle of fear and hatred on both sides.

You, and people like you whether they are Christians or Muslims are the biggest threat to peace.




_____________________________


The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 6:36:42 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
They won't quit if we go after them, and they sure won't if we just play defense, remember the Maginot Line? That is the policy you are advocating.


What makes you such an expert on what "they" will do anyway? The Maginot Line would be analogous only if we shared a common border with Muslim countries. Since we don't, I'm not sure why you think that's a relevant analogy.

That is because you do not comprehend that the strategy of sitting and waiting while doing nothing but playing defense has and always will fail.


So, no country in history has ever fought a defensive war and won? Is that your claim here?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 6:37:53 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
They won't quit if we go after them, and they sure won't if we just play defense, remember the Maginot Line? That is the policy you are advocating.


What makes you such an expert on what "they" will do anyway? The Maginot Line would be analogous only if we shared a common border with Muslim countries. Since we don't, I'm not sure why you think that's a relevant analogy.

Unlike you I understand Jihad


I seriously doubt that.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 7:08:51 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies
Military intervention kills people and puts a hold, temporarily on the assumed threats, but it is only ever a temporary solution.
If you put down your gun and engage your brain you might see that but all you see is
"You want it to be let's make sure nobody hurts the good guys (good guys being anyone who hates the west)"
How many times is the failure of killing people in foreign lands to protect your "god bless America" bullshit going to happen before people like you realise that every dead body brings forth more death and an endless cycle of fear and hatred on both sides.


Technically, it worked in WWII. Or, it has thus far.

What happens, though, when diplomacy doesn't work, or the only thing they'll accept in negotiation is something you're not willing to give up?

I'm firmly on the side of "let the Middle East settle this."


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 9:34:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Pick a side

how's that concept worked for you over the years?
Which side?
When?
For how long?

I guess it'll be the side you want, when you want it, for as long as you want it.

And then the cycle repeats, again and again until......peace!

Before you unload on me I am not excluding the UK from this cycle of bullshit, but it ain't working

How about the side that isn't beheading people, isn't selling them as sex slaves, isn't destroying everyone who isn't 100% in line with them, and hasn't declared you to be their next target? Seems like an easy choice.

you miss the point as usual, the OP was "The complicated road ahead" not "Bomb the fuckers"

Which side are you arming this time? The anti IS side, yeah I get that, but which side are you picking to fuck up IS?

Iraq? the Kurds? Syria? Iran? others?

Which is less likely to bite you in the ass in years to come or do you not care?


As usual you fail to comprehend that the military option is part of the equation.
You want it to be let's make sure nobody hurts the good guys (good guys being anyone who hates the west)

this is the 3rd time you have responded to my post, and each one has been more absurd than the last.

Stop ISIS, they are evil, got it,ok?

How? bomb them? brilliant, works every time. What happens after you bomb the fuck out of "whatever they call themselves this time"?

You were in Nam, bombing the shit out of everything, did that work?

No, it fucking didn't.

Military intervention kills people and puts a hold, temporarily on the assumed threats, but it is only ever a temporary solution.

If you put down your gun and engage your brain you might see that but all you see is
"You want it to be let's make sure nobody hurts the good guys (good guys being anyone who hates the west)"

How many times is the failure of killing people in foreign lands to protect your "god bless America" bullshit going to happen before people like you realise that every dead body brings forth more death and an endless cycle of fear and hatred on both sides.

You, and people like you whether they are Christians or Muslims are the biggest threat to peace.




First off you don't know what you are talking about. We weren't allowed to "bomb the shit out of everything". All of the important targets were off limits. We weren't trying to win the war, we were trying not to lose. McNamara was a moron and Johnson wanted to keep our involvement to a minimum. I don't want to send troops, if you had seen anything except what you wanted to you would know that I want to help people defend themselves and provide them the air support they need, but we have to equip them well enough to do so.
My first choice would be to help the Kurds, how can you disagree with this unless you have no problem with genocide. My second choice would be the people who are trying to overthrow Assad, again they are facing genocide. It isn't about Lslam against Christians, ut us about genocidal monsters against humans.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Foreign Policy -- The Complicated Road Ahead - 9/16/2014 9:35:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
They won't quit if we go after them, and they sure won't if we just play defense, remember the Maginot Line? That is the policy you are advocating.


What makes you such an expert on what "they" will do anyway? The Maginot Line would be analogous only if we shared a common border with Muslim countries. Since we don't, I'm not sure why you think that's a relevant analogy.

That is because you do not comprehend that the strategy of sitting and waiting while doing nothing but playing defense has and always will fail.


So, no country in history has ever fought a defensive war and won? Is that your claim here?


never say never


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 140
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