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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 9:13:06 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		dc how come no one reads my posts? I do understand the distrust... I listed what i think needs to be done to regain it... but the larger problem is crime and its cause... source... and responsibility. And the need for African Americans to assume SOME responsibility for it instead of exclusively blaming others. I believe the brutality of the police can be directly attributed to the constant battle against violent crime... To solve this problem the African American community needs to take some responsibility just as the police MUST do the same and change their ways of dealing with the crime and doing what it takes to regain trust. This will mean more minorities on the force as well as other suggestions I have made.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/5/2014 9:34:08 AM >

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 9:17:10 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

I can't believe how racist you are.


Surprise surprise... I never would have thought it.

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 9:51:49 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Yep - I get what you feel! Myself, I watched this event unfolding and thought to myself, 'Another incidence of nastiness in America'. It's really difficult not to think of Americans as savages ... It's wrong to feel that way, but there are reasons for the way we Brits feel, even they're wrong reasons ....

Actually, I don't feel that at all. You get the point, though? You'd rightly get pretty damned prickly if a Brit were to say that about Americans - tarring all of you with the same brush? So, you could understand why black Americans would get pissed off at white Americans tarring *them* all with the same brush, no? Isn't it the same principle?




Why yes, you do on a regular basis and we do. Not sure why you put the "if" in there.


Nope, I don't, THB. That's just your usual hyper-sensitivity and national inferiority hang up speaking.

Not speaking to you personally, but I have noticed than in general, there's a tendency for those people who most deny racism when it's blatantly obvious to anti-racists to be exactly those who'll (claim to) feel anti-American bias from non-Americans. Odd that. My own hunch is that such people live in a world of prejudices and assume everyone else does too - only with different prejudices. They look down on one kind of person and end up believing, to their horror, that another sort of person entirely looks down on them. It's the flip side of the same prejudice-minded coin.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 12/5/2014 9:55:30 AM >

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 9:56:28 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Yep - I get what you feel! Myself, I watched this event unfolding and thought to myself, 'Another incidence of nastiness in America'. It's really difficult not to think of Americans as savages ... It's wrong to feel that way, but there are reasons for the way we Brits feel, even they're wrong reasons ....

Actually, I don't feel that at all. You get the point, though? You'd rightly get pretty damned prickly if a Brit were to say that about Americans - tarring all of you with the same brush? So, you could understand why black Americans would get pissed off at white Americans tarring *them* all with the same brush, no? Isn't it the same principle?




Why yes, you do on a regular basis and we do. Not sure why you put the "if" in there.


Nope, I don't, THB. That's just your usual hyper-sensitivity and national inferiority hang up speaking.

Not speaking to you personally, but I have noticed than in general, there's a tendency for those people who most deny racism when it's blatantly obvious to anti-racists to be exactly those who'll (claim to) feel anti-American bias from non-Americans. Odd that. My own hunch is that such people live in a world of prejudices and assume everyone else does too - only with different prejudices. They look down on one kind of person and end up believing, to their horror, that another sort of person entirely looks down on them. It's the flip side of the same prejudice-minded coin.

The reverse could also be true.

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 10:04:54 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

This thread brings to mind a point made in the latest New Yorker:

Giuliani’s argument [that the real problem is black-on-black crime] is a curious, if durable, one that would seem to suggest that the members of a community should themselves be responsible for correcting the behavior of other members of their demographic. (Nobody asks the same of the white population.)

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/08/crimes-commissions
Could that possibly be because whites are not allowed to see themselves as a community because to do so would be racist?

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 10:12:56 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Could that possibly be because whites are not allowed to see themselves as a community because to do so would be racist?


It'd feel a bit silly, I think. It would be like vanillas seeing themselves as a community because they're not kinksters. When you're part of that big a majority, you just see yourself as 'ordinary'.

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 10:46:46 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

This thread brings to mind a point made in the latest New Yorker:

Giuliani’s argument [that the real problem is black-on-black crime] is a curious, if durable, one that would seem to suggest that the members of a community should themselves be responsible for correcting the behavior of other members of their demographic. (Nobody asks the same of the white population.)

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/08/crimes-commissions
Could that possibly be because whites are not allowed to see themselves as a community because to do so would be racist?


1) Who doesn't "allow" this?
2) What would be the reason for excluding other races?

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 10:48:43 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Could that possibly be because whites are not allowed to see themselves as a community because to do so would be racist?


It'd feel a bit silly, I think. It would be like vanillas seeing themselves as a community because they're not kinksters. When you're part of that big a majority, you just see yourself as 'ordinary'.

What you have said is that African Americans should consider themselves a community except for matters of being responsible, but that whites can only be considered a community when it comes to being responsible.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 11:03:31 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:



It'd feel a bit silly, I think. It would be like vanillas seeing themselves as a community because they're not kinksters. When you're part of that big a majority, you just see yourself as 'ordinary'.


quote:

What you have said is that African Americans should consider themselves a community except for matters of being responsible, but that whites can only be considered a community when it comes to being responsible.


Could you walk me through how you got from my statement to yours there, Bama?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 12/5/2014 11:05:13 AM >

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 11:07:48 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It'd feel a bit silly, I think. It would be like vanillas seeing themselves as a community because they're not kinksters. When you're part of that big a majority, you just see yourself as 'ordinary'.

What you have said is that African Americans should consider themselves a community except for matters of being responsible, but that whites can only be considered a community when it comes to being responsible.


Could you walk me through how you got from my statement to yours there, Bama?

When it was stated that the black community needs to do something to reduce crime you argued that this was unfair to them unless the white community is asked to do the same.
The white community doesn't make martyrs of criminals, the black community does. That would be a good start.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 11:17:14 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

This thread brings to mind a point made in the latest New Yorker:

Giuliani’s argument [that the real problem is black-on-black crime] is a curious, if durable, one that would seem to suggest that the members of a community should themselves be responsible for correcting the behavior of other members of their demographic. (Nobody asks the same of the white population.)

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/08/crimes-commissions
Could that possibly be because whites are not allowed to see themselves as a community because to do so would be racist?


1) Who doesn't "allow" this?
2) What would be the reason for excluding other races?
What do you think would happen if a group calling itself the N.A.A.W.P. tried to form? Or the United White College Fund? Think they'd be seen as doing something for the "white community" or as "racist" organizations?

The same reason other races are excluded when speaking of the "black" community...well, except for including whites as the "base" reason for all their problems.

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 11:52:42 AM   
HeartAndSoul31


Posts: 148
Status: offline 		I'm proud of the community I live in. I can be a first class B but I am not prejudice. I know wonderful people of all kinds of descents, colors, mixes, etc. and we mingle, tolerate, or even love each other, most times lol.
I am white. Most of us have two things in common faith and respect.
I am very sorry for what is happening in Missouri. I hope it doesn't have a ripple effect. It can't continue.

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 11:57:45 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

When it was stated that the black community needs to do something to reduce crime you argued that this was unfair to them unless the white community is asked to do the same.
The white community doesn't make martyrs of criminals, the black community does. That would be a good start.


Eh? What post(s) are you talking about? Are you mixing me up with someone else again?

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 12:01:20 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I agree... I hope in the end it will be a step forward. We may all disagree on the cause and what must be done but staying where we are today is not what we all envision America to be.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 12:49:09 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

When it was stated that the black community needs to do something to reduce crime you argued that this was unfair to them unless the white community is asked to do the same.
The white community doesn't make martyrs of criminals, the black community does. That would be a good start.


Eh? What post(s) are you talking about? Are you mixing me up with someone else again?

It does appear that I combined your post with one of DCs

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 1:54:13 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It does appear that I combined your post with one of DCs


No problem, BitYakin. It's easily done. ;-)

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 2:19:21 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It does appear that I combined your post with one of DCs


No problem, BitYakin. It's easily done. ;-)

Now if only someone would confuse my torso with Peon's . . .

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 2:21:24 PM   
cloudboy


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You penned the words:

>In white neighborhoods when a murder in committed it makes no difference what race did it police get cooperation from witnesses and the crime is often solved... This IS policing yourself... But in African American neighborhoods when a murder is committed often witnesses refuse to cooperate and the murders go unsolved. Of course this is not all the time and we are speaking in generalities.<

^^^^^ just a major league head-scratcher there.

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RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 2:24:06 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Now if only someone would confuse my torso with Peon's . . .


You don't want a torso like mine, DC. People would think you're gay.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is Ferguson happening in a vacuum - 12/5/2014 3:00:35 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Not for me cloudboy....I understand it perfectly... You know we always lock horns but it's good to have differences in opinion. In fact you spell out the problems quite well. To me your only problem is refuse to even try to see another perspective. To come up with real answers people of all colors have to understand each other. Then be willing to listen to the other side without anger. Let's see if we can do that sometime

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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