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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:08:08 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Only by the reality of the happenings of the world... How else would you explain the attitude of those children... Common sense would say the reaction of the children was put a vary small percentage of the reality of thought. Most children would not express their thoughts on murder so i would guess...yes a guess.. that many more supported the jihadist then actually refused to observe the moment of silence... Very disturbing to me anyway.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/31/2015 10:11:34 AM >

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:09:58 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Common sense would call that speculation.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:12:24 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		and american kids cheered against the "camel loving rag heads" being bombed to oblivion in iraq,
Nasty little monsters parroting the bigoted parents. Come in every flavour, race and gender
When the IRA bombed aldershot in 1972, there were irish catholic ten year olds cheering soldiers deaths in my junior school
Religions fucking suck and so do radical religious parents.
Dont tell me it doesnt happen with good as gold- all american kids
look at how pervasive bullying and resulting suicide of the bullied works
Lousy fucking parents and usually a dogma behind it.

Yanno there are christian child soldiers as well as islamic child soldiers,
in Africa , South America AND Syria among other places.
look into it.
or cling to your beliefs, but it wont make them any more factual


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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:12:41 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes it would but the reality of those children is there... can you deny it?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:13:52 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		This may all be true... but again... how does that change reality?

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:19:23 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes it would but the reality of those children is there... can you deny it?

Butch

Can you support it beyond speculation?

Because then we'd be talking reality.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:27:55 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I posted reality... what else do you want... do you want a link to the story... no speculation as far as i can tell... the facts speak for themselves.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:30:36 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		We all read the news and make of it as we will... what is your take on these children?

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:32:27 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We all read the news and make of it as we will... what is your take on these children?

they are guilty of being force fed religion and hate

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:38:03 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Oh yes I agree with you wholeheartedly... it does not bode well for the future... And to me it shows the problem is deeper than just a few fanatics among a peaceful religion... of course an opinion but a reasonable one i think.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:39:01 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I posted reality.

You posted your subjective take, as your next post acknowledges

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We all read the news and make of it as we will.


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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:41:19 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Of course... what else can it be... you... I... Lucy... everyone takes the same facts and has their own conclusion... what is yours?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:42:22 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So Butch...how do you figure the percentage of radicals? And by what methodology?

It's not just the extremists and radicals Muse, it's the whole religious standpoint.

People can cherry-pick all sorts of shit from the bible and the qoran to support the good and the bad. The essential thing is, most of the world's religions are at least trying to keep up with 'modern' society and its intrinsic values. Unfortunately, most Islamists don't and neither does the religion.
Therein lies half, if not the majority, of the problem.
The Islamic faith, even in the most moderate of terms, is still 500+ years behind most other modern religions. The clerics and other Islamic leaders around the world still follow those ancient scriptures and have extended them beyond the book into their cultural lifestyle (eg; Sharia Law).

They say one thing to your face (and to the media) but actually believe in the total opposite - as dictated/written in their qoran.
I have seen the behaviour of some (most?) Muslims at our local school and there were an awful lot of them that didn't/wouldn't observe the minute silence. The white kids stood still, even in the playground, many non-whites didn't.

How did I know they were Muslims and not something else? That would be a good question and I can only go by the fact that they were 1) non-white, 2) wore traditional Muslim garb, 3) many that I personally knew come from local Muslim families.

Yes, these kids are being force-fed bad religion and hate and some of these will no doubt grow up to be jihadists of the future.
Call it what you will and you can dig up various bits where there are non-Islamic bad things happening; but I posit that the majority of extremist actions come from the Islamic faith and that faith, in and of itself, is anathema to the general way of western life.


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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:44:03 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		My conclusions are not written in stone... they can change with new input...but for now i see more than just a few fanatics and I think it is reasonable to to come this conclusions.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:53:48 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Of course... what else can it be... you... I... Lucy... everyone takes the same facts and has their own conclusion... what is yours?

Butch

There's a reason I don't have one to share--I don't make up facts.

The "all Islam is against us and coming after us" is hysteria. 23% the world is Muslim -- if they were all radical and coming after you, they're be FAR more news about if for you to speculate over. That's more than twice the population of all Europe.

That there's radicalism, certainly. That's it's spread, of course.

But "the world is ending at the hands of Islam" is, along with what actual threat exists, the 21st century version of first "the reds are coming," then "the communists are coming."

And you couldn't get the hysteria believers to look at the reality of data then either.

But it's spreading hate from this side, and I'm not playing along. The world is full of peace-loving Islamists, just as the world is full of hateful Christians too, along with many wonderful people.

And all the rounds of jabs and quips and snark people can throw over the Internet isn't going to change that.

Just a few people's perceptions of it.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 10:56:21 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

most of the world's religions are at least trying to keep up with 'modern' society and its intrinsic values. Unfortunately, most Islamists don't


That's 1.6 billion people -- more than twice the population of Europe.

You're going to need support for such a grand claim. Because it's just your speculation, and the reality of peace along with some hot spots brings your claim into question.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 11:13:14 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

most of the world's religions are at least trying to keep up with 'modern' society and its intrinsic values. Unfortunately, most Islamists don't


That's 1.6 billion people -- more than twice the population of Europe.

You're going to need support for such a grand claim. Because it's just your speculation, and the reality of peace along with some hot spots brings your claim into question.

Ok....
The Church of England have now allowed to ordain female bishops.
Do you see females within the upper echelons of any Islamic faith - extreme or otherwise?

Many western faiths (although not all) have at least acknowledged that gays exist and they are allowed to live within our society.
That doesn't happen in any Islamic country/state that I know of. As per the qoran, gays are persecuted and often slaughtered.

Many western faiths allow Islam the right to exist.
As far as Islam and the qoran goes, if you aren't following Islam, you deserve to die.

How many non-Islamic extremists/jihadist groups are there compared to Islamic-based ones?


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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 11:16:04 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		That's miles away from your original claim.

Your assumption as to the last question's answer is the issue.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 11:23:28 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That's miles away from your original claim.

Your assumption as to the last question's answer is the issue.

Here is my original claim: "but I posit that the majority of extremist actions come from the Islamic faith and that faith, in and of itself, is anathema to the general way of western life."

I have given examples of where Islamists do not follow the western ways and even teaching their children to do the same.
In another thread somewhere, I posted a link the the most heinous 25 terrorist crimes; something like 16 of the top 20 were all committed by Islamic groups.
Those are documented facts.

Can you refute that with sensible citation instead of just waving your hand in dismissal??


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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/31/2015 11:29:16 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I might ask the same. You have no support for "the majority of extremist actions come from the Islamic faith" nor for "that faith, in and of itself, is anathema to the general way of western life" beyond your perception and belief.

I've pointed out that 1.6 billion Muslims considerably dwarfs the terrible actions of the radicals. To help bring that number into context, I even shared that this is more than double the population of Europe. It's more than the population of China. The majority are living around the world in peace. I'm sorry that didn't make the news for you. But it's what is.

You simply repeated your belief. And added a little cherry picking--and we could cherry pick the nasty parts of the Bible too. I'll pass on both.

You have a sweeping dismissal and judgment of the faith of 1.6 billion people, 23% of the global population, ignoring the reality of their daily existence in favor of your prejudice, which you insist is fact, but can't factually support.

Anecdotes do not a majority make.


ETA: the entire population of all the middle east and north Africa, all faiths, is 336 million. That's only 20% of the global Islamic population. We could all all of Europe to the middle east and north Africa, all faiths, and we'd have 1 billion people--still only 60% of the global Islamic population. We could all the entire population of the US, all faiths, and we'd have 1.3 billion -- still only 80% of the global Islamic population.

Now go back and take ONLY the Muslims. Then only the radicals. It's a fraction of Islam, whatever numbers you want to assume.

The tail is wagging your dog.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/31/2015 11:36:17 AM >

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