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RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/22/2015 9:16:14 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I don't think I have ever seen Spinal Tap

If you're a musician or a classic rock enthusiast, I would classify this as "required" viewing.

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 101

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/22/2015 9:50:00 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I don't think I have ever seen Spinal Tap

If you're a musician or a classic rock enthusiast, I would classify this as "required" viewing.

Michael

Obviously I am not.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 102

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 12:08:51 AM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

Spinal Tap?

Isn't that the 80s parody of a rock band done like a documentary?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_Spinal_Tap

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 103

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 1:48:37 AM

bounty44

Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

so just to be clear---in your world, the only people who get to have guns then would be the military and maybe law enforcement?

love this: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/robert-farago/688-armed-robberies-in-gun-free-uk-in-three-years-at-betting-shops/

"I don’t mean to pick on my former home but . . . “From April 2008 to June 2011, there were 688 robberies at London betting shops where a gun was used, according to the Metropolitan Police.” There it is in black and white via guardian.co.uk: the country held up as the exemplar for American gun control is prey to hundreds of armed robberies."

even if what you are suggesting could remotely be true (lots fewer bad guys with guns), women are still at a disadvantage compared to male attackers. guns equalize that. so....it's probably better they bring a gun to a knife fight wouldn't you think?

I'm not advocating to completely ban guns.... just don't allow them in public.

And from your quote: "“From April 2008 to June 2011, there were 688 robberies at London betting shops where a gun was used".
688 robberies in what.... just over 3 YEARS??!?
And how many guns deaths in those robberies, huh???

And now compare that to over 32,000 gun deaths per year alone in the US.
No fucking contest!

am not sure what "public" means...so maybe the only place you can have them is what, inside your house?

the point of the armed robberies in England story, since you either seemed to miss it or are purposefully trying to change the subject is---you suggested that the taking of guns away from most everyone would effect the bad guys having them. less guns everywhere, less guns for the bad guys. the 688 armed robberies in England (in fact just London if I remember and only in certain types of shops--which means there are lots more all across the country and in different places), shoots (no pun intended) your argument into the ground.

now on another hand---an alternative and really absurd interpretation of what you just wrote is: since you are focusing solely on the deaths, that you're really okay with people being robbed or otherwise victimized, so long as no deaths occur in the process. I hope that's not true---so then we are back to my other point above. less guns everywhere---the bad guys nevertheless still have them.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 104

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 3:42:25 AM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
What about tasers? are those in the same category as guns or are women/people allowed to carry those? and pepper spray? a gun isn't the only way to defend oneself..

A taser is classed as a firearm.

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-76-6.pdf

Stun guns and disabling sprays are up to state law;
http://planetstungun.com/pages/stun-gun-laws

Note: checked before I went to Canada last year. Stun devices or pepper spray cannot be brought into Canada.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 105

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 4:01:03 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
What about tasers? are those in the same category as guns or are women/people allowed to carry those? and pepper spray? a gun isn't the only way to defend oneself..

A taser is classed as a firearm.

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-76-6.pdf

Stun guns and disabling sprays are up to state law;
http://planetstungun.com/pages/stun-gun-laws

Note: checked before I went to Canada last year. Stun devices or pepper spray cannot be brought into Canada.

I'm sure they have a sign, at the border: "Gun/Stun Gun/Pepper Spray-Free Zone"

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 106

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 5:55:06 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
but if some people can get written permission to conceal carry/carry on campus then it's not a gun free zone.. at least not imo..

And how many have been successful in achieving that??
I'm guessing it's a pretty low number.

I am guessing that few people try to get permission.. so if very few people try, then yeah, it will be a low number..

what about tasers? are those in the same category as guns or are women/people allowed to carry those? and pepper spray? a gun isn't the only way to defend oneself..

If FD or you were the school President no one would get one.
Have you ever heard of private property?
The law bans firearms from schools.
Here the law says that businesses can ban open carry if they post it.
There are a lot of places that are gun free, government buildings for example.

..again, you jump to wrong conclusions.. what is it with people like you that label someone when they have the audacity to ask questions? I don't think there is any way to turn the US into a gun free country, given the prevalence of guns here, that would be impossible.. plus now people that cant get a gun can 3-D print one.. I am not anti-gun regarding the US (my country yes since its a different culture and it has gun laws).. but down here in the US with all the nut bars, its a different culture.. you are almost forced to have a gun (I would prefer a taser myself tho).. And I would never be Prez here as I am not an American and never will be..

yes I live here, I know there are private businesses that post No Guns.. you again assume I don't know this..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 107

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 5:59:31 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

I must admit I have not been following this topic, neither have I read what's written above me, but I recently read in the New York Times International Edition, as its a physical copy, I have no link, but the story is about one of the US Senators pushing for guns to be allowed in colleges, to lower college rape statistics or something. The logic is something like if everyone is arm with guns, the women can protect themselves against rape. He also added that, if everyone is armed with guns, then, no mass shooting incidents would happen like those that been going on. People will have arms to protect themselves.

I seriously rolled my eyes on that! I almost wish it could be legislated just to prove this guy how wrong he could be. And if he turn out to be right, I'd say, okay, I will believe in arming everybody with guns.

PS: I just looked at Page 1 of this thread, and ahhh, the article is there! I so want them to make this happen so that they can be proven without a single doubt to be wrong!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/23/2015 6:03:31 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 108

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 6:22:04 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
What about tasers? are those in the same category as guns or are women/people allowed to carry those? and pepper spray? a gun isn't the only way to defend oneself..

A taser is classed as a firearm.

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-76-6.pdf

Stun guns and disabling sprays are up to state law;
http://planetstungun.com/pages/stun-gun-laws

Note: checked before I went to Canada last year. Stun devices or pepper spray cannot be brought into Canada.

yes, I know tazers are decided by each state, some states do allow them, some don't.. there are tazers that look like a smart phone so unless you use it you wouldn't know it was a tazer.. but if someone attacks you and you tase them with a tazer you aren't supposed to have, are they gonna run to the police and report you? I think not..

what does Canada's laws have to do with this US issue???

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 109

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 7:52:01 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

its surprising how many americans who get stopped at the border, believe their rights trump canadian law.
they whine like fuck when they get their guns confiscated

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(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 110

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 8:27:43 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

its surprising how many americans who get stopped at the border, believe their rights trump canadian law.
they whine like fuck when they get their guns confiscated

TSA takes their guns too.. and can fine them big bucks!

TSA Has Record-Breaking Haul In 2014: Guns, Cannons, and Swords
"Criminal charges or not, passengers found with firearms at airport checkpoints are subject to civil penalties, ranging from $1,500 up to $11,000. In 2013, TSA assessed nearly $1.7 million in civil penalties for firearms discovered in carry-on bags nationwide."
http://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/2014/12/18/guns-cannons-swords-tsa-record-breaking-haul-2014/

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 111

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 3:23:35 PM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

yes, I know tazers are decided by each state, some states do allow them, some don't.. there are tazers that look like a smart phone so unless you use it you wouldn't know it was a tazer.. but if someone attacks you and you tase them with a tazer you aren't supposed to have, are they gonna run to the police and report you? I think not..

what does Canada's laws have to do with this US issue???

No, tasers are NOT decided by each state but classed as a firearm by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

Stunners and spray chemical irritants are classified by state.

There is a significant difference as a "Taser" uses a propellant to fire darts on a wire.

I mentioned Canada because there is a nationwide ban on personal importation of stunners and spray irritants (both CS and pepper spray) and if you wander across the border and get searched you will face significant trouble. A lot of things are verboten for bringing across the border that can get you in trouble. Sometimes the things are really innocuous such as "Kinder Eggs".

There is a devil in the details and they can matter.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 112

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 4:45:38 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

yes, I know tazers are decided by each state, some states do allow them, some don't.. there are tazers that look like a smart phone so unless you use it you wouldn't know it was a tazer.. but if someone attacks you and you tase them with a tazer you aren't supposed to have, are they gonna run to the police and report you? I think not..

what does Canada's laws have to do with this US issue???

No, tasers are NOT decided by each state but classed as a firearm by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

Stunners and spray chemical irritants are classified by state.

There is a significant difference as a "Taser" uses a propellant to fire darts on a wire.

I mentioned Canada because there is a nationwide ban on personal importation of stunners and spray irritants (both CS and pepper spray) and if you wander across the border and get searched you will face significant trouble. A lot of things are verboten for bringing across the border that can get you in trouble. Sometimes the things are really innocuous such as "Kinder Eggs".

There is a devil in the details and they can matter.

hmmm I thought tazers and stun guns were the same thing.. but I am not into all that weapon stuff.. its like (to me) a Volvo and a camry are the same thing, they are both cars! I used to be a letter carrier in Canada and the Post Office gave us pepper spray to use for vicious dogs.. that was when I was a kid tho.. The same holds true when bringing stuff into the US, there are all sorts of rules & regs on what is allowed and not.. I mean, Cuban cigars anyone?

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 113

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/23/2015 4:52:03 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

yes, I know tazers are decided by each state, some states do allow them, some don't.. there are tazers that look like a smart phone so unless you use it you wouldn't know it was a tazer.. but if someone attacks you and you tase them with a tazer you aren't supposed to have, are they gonna run to the police and report you? I think not..

what does Canada's laws have to do with this US issue???

No, tasers are NOT decided by each state but classed as a firearm by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

Stunners and spray chemical irritants are classified by state.

There is a significant difference as a "Taser" uses a propellant to fire darts on a wire.

I mentioned Canada because there is a nationwide ban on personal importation of stunners and spray irritants (both CS and pepper spray) and if you wander across the border and get searched you will face significant trouble. A lot of things are verboten for bringing across the border that can get you in trouble. Sometimes the things are really innocuous such as "Kinder Eggs".

There is a devil in the details and they can matter.

hmmm I thought tazers and stun guns were the same thing.. but I am not into all that weapon stuff.. its like (to me) a Volvo and a camry are the same thing, they are both cars! I used to be a letter carrier in Canada and the Post Office gave us pepper spray to use for vicious dogs.. that was when I was a kid tho.. The same holds true when bringing stuff into the US, there are all sorts of rules & regs on what is allowed and not.. I mean, Cuban cigars anyone?

A taser shoots out wires with "prongs" attached to the end which allows them to shock a person from a "distance" A stun "gun" has the same range as a knife, not only do you have to wait until the attacker is right on top of you, but if you are in contact when you use it you can get shocked.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 114

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/24/2015 5:34:03 AM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

On the Canada front. What struck me is that you can't bring a stun device or pepper spray into Canada from the U.S. But, once in Canada you can acquire them. There are probably different limits on concentration in sprays or voltage for stunners but I didn't check the fine print on the specs. I just gave my daughter the stunner I kept in the car and left the pepper spray at home with the camping equipment.
BTW, if you want serious pepper spray; do a search on "bear repellent".
I have taken to use the term "stunner" as they no longer look anything like a gun. A stun circuit built into a flashlight seems to be the most common variant these days.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 115

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/24/2015 6:08:20 AM

worth0

Posts: 3
Joined: 2/8/2015
Status: offline

Ah, as far as I know, up here pepper spray is a prohibited item and stun guns are illegal. If something has change legally please let me know but that is the most recent legal status that I'm aware of.

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 116

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/24/2015 6:24:57 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Yes, tasers and stun guns can only be sold to law enforcement agencies.

Only one company is allowed to import into canada. They are registered and tracked like handguns are.

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(in reply to worth0)

Post #: 117

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/25/2015 2:13:23 AM

ThirdWheelWanted

Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I think most campuses are gun free zones.

But the question would be.... what legal right do the campuses have to deny legal owners with legit licenses the right to carry under the 2nd??
And what about other gun free zones? How does that work from a legal sense?

We always hear that it is a fundamental right to carry and bear arms and in every gun thread we hear that the right cannot be removed from legal citizens.
So how can they enforce a gun free zone.... legally, in direct breach of the constitution??

Unfortunately there's no easy answer to this. It varies by state. Here in PA, it's legal for stores to post signs saying that weapons aren't allowed on the premises. If you're caught with one anyway, you can be removed from the store, have a no trespassing order given to you saying that you can never return, or even be arrested outright.

In other states, store owners can post such signs, but they have no legal standing.

You mentioned pepper spray in an earlier post, many states outlaw that along with guns and other weapons.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 118

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/25/2015 2:42:12 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

I gotta tell ya, law or no law; if a store owner doesn't want weapons in their store, as far as I'm concerned; that's their right. That store is theirs. I won't tolerate certain things coming into my house. I see their point of view.

Of course, when TWW gets invited to my house, I'm not fairly certain that he's going to drop a boatload of cash on me, while he's here.

The store owner is, essentially, telling me: "You're gun-wearing money isn't wanted here." Fine. There's other places that want my money. For quite some time, I've been saying that the dollar is the only power we have. Why not use it to send a message?

If supporters of the Second absolutely refuse to spend their money in these places, the businesses would have to (at least) re-think their stance on this policy.

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)

Post #: 119

RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... - 2/25/2015 5:11:42 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I gotta tell ya, law or no law; if a store owner doesn't want weapons in their store, as far as I'm concerned; that's their right. That store is theirs. I won't tolerate certain things coming into my house. I see their point of view.

Is your house open to the public?

K.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 120

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