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RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 1:29:34 PM   
satanscharmer


Posts: 376
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Hey shifty, I was actually with family members as I was reading this and I got comments like "your eyes just widened...what's wrong?" And then I was asked what I was reading and what's wrong and all I could say is "there are such total lowlives in the world."
Honestly I would like to believe most people are good, I have covered many parts of North America and most of my encounters have been good. I would like to believe I am not sheltered and foolish but I was still amazed at the level of cruelty some people will stoop to en masse and for no one to call them on their shit/ correct their behavior. See, my problem is I would not have stayed quiet and I would have hurt a lot of people's feelings and had probably been expelled. I would consider it my civic duty to cut them down to size. I really cannot tolerate bullies and I have a zero tolerance for it. If it were a group of people doing it I would just have to purchase a megaphone and make sure every single one of them heard EXACTLY what I had to say. I am so mortified that people will bombard others with this level of cruelty and they actually think they are taking a MORAL HIGH GROUND. Total and complete irony. This explains the defensive nature of some when it comes to certain topics. One of my besties called me a "mean, cold hearted slut" jokingly and I said "flattery will get you nowhere" and thought nothing of it. I just can't believe the way some "adults" conduct themselves, shameful. If I were you, I'd pity how pathetic they actually are and there is NO WAY I would let their words affect me. It's so funny how strangers love to judge, pick on and cause discomfort to other strangers just for sport. Sickening honestly, they are all the results of piss poor parenting. I'm sorry for having to go there. You keep it up shifty, don't let a group of assholes (sorry, I couldn't hold back there) dictate who and what you are. Kind regards and good luck with your bf's gram and family stuff!
I can see it from both you and Kaliko's perspectives but I feel that it's a bunch of immature dickwads emotionally scarring individuals and your position makes so much more sense.



I know this was directed at Shifty, but thank you for this.
Bullying, of all kinds, is something I am passionate about.

P.s. Thank you for your response to my previous pondering. I'm still stewing on that. What I'm taking from your post, I see almost as a possibly different view as what I questioned - but just as interesting.

P.s.s. This is a fast reply. I'm not sure what pay equality has to do with the original topic, but I don't see why women who choose to have families should not be included in statistics. Yes, women have the right to choose whether or not they want to have kids. But choosing to do so should not have an effect on their pay. Would it on men? Regardless, I find it difficult to take statistics from either side as factual - there are just too many variables IMO that often aren't taken into account.

P.s.s.s. Shifty, best wishes and healing thoughts to you and your guy's families.


Edited for clarity. Sometimes less is more/better


< Message edited by satanscharmer -- 3/1/2015 2:16:53 PM >

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 2:22:43 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: satanscharmer

P.s.s. This is a fast reply. I'm not sure what pay equality has to do with the original topic, but I don't see why women who choose to have families should not be included in statistics. Yes, women have the right to choose whether or not they want to have kids. But choosing to do so should not have an effect on their pay. Would it on men? Regardless, I find it difficult to take statistics from either side as factual - there are just too many variables IMO that often aren't taken into account.



In an effort not to derail this thread, I have made a new one that may answer your question.

Here ya go.



Michael

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RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 2:30:39 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: satanscharmer

P.s.s. This is a fast reply. I'm not sure what pay equality has to do with the original topic, but I don't see why women who choose to have families should not be included in statistics. Yes, women have the right to choose whether or not they want to have kids. But choosing to do so should not have an effect on their pay. Would it on men? Regardless, I find it difficult to take statistics from either side as factual - there are just too many variables IMO that often aren't taken into account.





It's the 8% Slut factor... ya know, like biker gangs have the 1%'ers, Sluts have 8%'ers and those be some hardcore sluts.

Jus sayin


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RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 3:09:39 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		So, no broken pelvis. Thank god.

I'm still pretty busy, but without that on my plate, I will probably be around- thanks for all the well wishes! <3

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 3:21:01 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

So, no broken pelvis. Thank god.

I'm still pretty busy, but without that on my plate, I will probably be around- thanks for all the well wishes! <3


YAY!!!!!!

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 3:26:09 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I am sick at home so too tired to pull statistics.

i don't want to further derail the thread, but to those who believe that women at all levels, from CEO to fast food workers do not make less money than men, keep living in your uninformed cloud. And it has nothing to do with stay at home mothers.

As an example, in my field of media sales, women are much better at it than men, but uniformly make $ 10-30,000 less in their base salary than men, despite outselling the men. Their commission percent is also sometimes lower.

In every place I worked in my career, I was the documented top seller and yet I discovered the inequality of the pay scale.

And I have no kids.

And I never felt slut shamed, but maybe I was. I know I felt screwed.


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RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 3:34:19 PM   
satanscharmer


Posts: 376
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

So, no broken pelvis. Thank god.

I'm still pretty busy, but without that on my plate, I will probably be around- thanks for all the well wishes! <3


Good news! That's great!

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 3:56:07 PM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		I've never even seen shut shaming in real life :/ ....I've seen the opposite, tell people you don't want to have sex and everyone will jump on that bandwagon and try to prove you'll like it with them.... but all the sluts I've known (and I worked as a model recruit for an adult website and strip club so... yeah) were well liked. And I went to all Christian prep schools for 4th-8th grade and no shut shaming there either, the sluts were a well respected part of the ecosystem. I've been called a slut but in every case it was when in hadn't had sex so I don't think that counts. Though I don't necessarily think being a slut is a good thing. Having the right to choose what you do with your body, thumbs up. Middle schoolers having orgies instead of slumber parties, thumbs down. 1/3 of Americans have an std, most kids grow up in single parent homes. So I see both sides, on one side people should be free to make their own choices... but when they haven't been around people who want to protect them, when they don't know the difference it makes it harder to make those choices well. If it had a daughter I wouldn't want her to fuck everything that moves, but then I also think it's strange that the kid I raised is deciding to get married to someone she hasn't had sex with.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 3:59:32 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Sure- I'm putting "spin" on it I guess. I guess I don't know why you're focusing on you're own experience so much and ignoring what others may experience...


Well, that's the thing. That's what's kind of fascinating about this to me is that my experiences aren't that much different than, say, yours (for example) and what you described. I'm not ignoring the experience of you or others. I'm pondering how we can walk away from our similar experiences feeling completely differently about the role that slut-shaming has on our lives.

I've said that it might be that I am already somewhat aligned with that type of thinking. I think a woman should consider the ramifications of promiscuity. I believe in differences between the genders and that we cannot possibly be judged equally across the board on all points. And I am 100% certain that I'm not alone in feeling this way. (Though, I might be here on these boards, I know.) And I'm aware that these being my beliefs might explain why I don't feel oppressed. But seeing as I'm not alone in my beliefs, then those who are fighting slut-shaming are not fighting for oppression against women. They're fighting oppression against women who perceive oppression.

Without going back to reread my posts to be sure, I'm pretty sure I left myself open to the possibility that the oppression does exist and I just don't see it. You volunteered some examples, but I can't agree that they're necessarily examples of oppression. As a counter, similar to what Catize briefly touched on, I saw recently across my Facebook feed a teacher's contract from 1923. A teacher (female, then, of course) was not allowed to marry, leave town, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, dress in bright colors, etc. If legally we were forced to endure these types of restrictions, forced to endure sexual harassment in the workplace, or if we were forced to endure rape as a man's right, .... That is oppression, and oppression that any woman would be at risk of being the victim of. But knowing that some people don't approve of my sexual activity? And they might voice that? I'm still having trouble seeing how other peoples' opinions oppress me.

I almost want to apologize. I feel like you (general you, not just shifty) might be banging your head against the desk at my inability to see this. But no. I just don't.

And (respectfully and with some slight humor), the fact that you posted that list from Facebook as perhaps a means to convince me is just another example of how far apart we are on the spectrum. Not that you're wrong. And not that I am. But wow, we are reading that list completely differently.


(in reply to shiftyw)
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RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:06:43 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline 		As an amusing side note, to show you that I don't really think I'm all that and I'm prepared to be proven wrong, I just texted this to Awareness:

"LOL I have no idea what I'm doing on that slut shaming thread. I suppose at some point I'm going to wind up saying "Yeah, you're probably right" to someone."




(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:15:05 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Kalisto, I may be mistaken, but don't you believe in male superiority?

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:18:01 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline 		Yes, though as I've said, that declaration comes with a whole bunch of asterisks and footnotes attached to it. Which I've not gone into on these boards. But the short answer is yes.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:20:18 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Perhaps that minimizes the impact of "slut" in your regard.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:32:34 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Sure- I'm putting "spin" on it I guess. I guess I don't know why you're focusing on you're own experience so much and ignoring what others may experience...


Well, that's the thing. That's what's kind of fascinating about this to me is that my experiences aren't that much different than, say, yours (for example) and what you described. I'm not ignoring the experience of you or others. I'm pondering how we can walk away from our similar experiences feeling completely differently about the role that slut-shaming has on our lives.

I've said that it might be that I am already somewhat aligned with that type of thinking. I think a woman should consider the ramifications of promiscuity. I believe in differences between the genders and that we cannot possibly be judged equally across the board on all points. And I am 100% certain that I'm not alone in feeling this way. (Though, I might be here on these boards, I know.) And I'm aware that these being my beliefs might explain why I don't feel oppressed. But seeing as I'm not alone in my beliefs, then those who are fighting slut-shaming are not fighting for oppression against women. They're fighting oppression against women who perceive oppression.



Kaliko, I agree with you in the respect that, whether we like it or not, there are ramifications to promiscuity, and the world being what it is, women should take that into account.

If I am understanding this part of your response correctly, then you are saying that your experiences are similar to what other posters have described as slut shaming, but that you didn't interpret it that way.

If that is correct, is that because you didn't care what others thought, so even if they were attempting to slut shame, it had no impact on you-you didn't let yourself be one of their "victims"?

Or am I misunderstanding this?

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:34:39 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Perhaps that minimizes the impact of "slut" in your regard.



I'm sure it does. I think I've mentioned a couple of times now that I am already somewhat aligned with those that might be doing the "shaming"; that I probably don't feel the wrath. Which makes me wonder if the oppression felt as a result of it is more a matter of perception than reality. Just because someone thinks she's oppressed, does that mean that she actually is? And on the flip side, just because I don't think I am, does that mean I'm not? I'm sure one of my feminist friends would be tempted to come along and say that my belief in male superiority is a result of my oppression and I'm too blind to see it. Of course, I would disagree. And I would say the same about someone who believes that women are oppressed in the society I live in today. And they would disagree.

It's all interesting to talk about, which is why I'm here. But I personally think it stops at discussion around the dinner table. There's not much injustice against women to be fought at this point, in my opinion. There seem to be a lot of angry women out there, but I've never really been able to get behind their reasons why.


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RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:36:52 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline 		I think the belief in male superiority is fair for a female sub, same as Female superiority for a male sub (not to derail the thread). I was raised in an ultra conservative society where ladies were supposed to behave a certain way, and it was almost unthinkable for women to smoke, it was indeed seen as a man's thing. I do not know if disposition on male/female superiority would alter perception of the word "slut" though.
Also sexyred, indeed a family is seen as a liability for many workplaces so some female executives decide early to forsake one for the other. It's simply a fact. I was putting the #'s out there because they affect the way women are seen and treated and even hired in the workplace.
DerangedUnit that also has been the case with me, the opposite. I often found it hilarious that they would act like I was a freak of nature if I didn't sleep with them and they would not give me a call back (as far as the vanilla dates, hehe). It was almost a game for me after a time, the whole tease and denial thing. I would purposely dress promiscuously but none of my actions or words suggested I was and also I would have momentary displays of intelligence to indicate I may be an asset in some way (even if helping with investment advice) but they would never pick up on the subtle hints. "How old are you?" Tell them my age. "Are you a virgin?" No. "We're both adults." *amused* "I know. Etc. I have even been called a "prude" LOL. Now THAT was funny.

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RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:37:46 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Kaliko, would you consider PTSD to be a superfluous term made up by those in the mental health field?

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:44:24 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Perhaps that minimizes the impact of "slut" in your regard.



I'm sure it does. I think I've mentioned a couple of times now that I am already somewhat aligned with those that might be doing the "shaming"; that I probably don't feel the wrath. Which makes me wonder if the oppression felt as a result of it is more a matter of perception than reality. Just because someone thinks she's oppressed, does that mean that she actually is? And on the flip side, just because I don't think I am, does that mean I'm not? I'm sure one of my feminist friends would be tempted to come along and say that my belief in male superiority is a result of my oppression and I'm too blind to see it. Of course, I would disagree. And I would say the same about someone who believes that women are oppressed in the society I live in today. And they would disagree.

It's all interesting to talk about, which is why I'm here. But I personally think it stops at discussion around the dinner table. There's not much injustice against women to be fought at this point, in my opinion. There seem to be a lot of angry women out there, but I've never really been able to get behind their reasons why.




I wouldn't see it as a result of oppression but alternatively from entitlement. That would be my first guess.
Otherwise there would have been factors to give you the impression women are facing injustice daily based on numbers and statistics. Some people are just lucky enough to not be born into a country where it is violent and completely accepted.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:52:44 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


If I am understanding this part of your response correctly, then you are saying that your experiences are similar to what other posters have described as slut shaming, but that you didn't interpret it that way.

If that is correct, is that because you didn't care what others thought, so even if they were attempting to slut shame, it had no impact on you-you didn't let yourself be one of their "victims"?

Or am I misunderstanding this?



Well, I'm sure I felt victimized, but not based on the fact that I'm a female. I felt the victim because I was at the hands of bullies and criminals, not because I felt that anybody was trying to make me feel like my gender or my actions deserve it.

And yes, I'm sure there was impact on me. But not on my view of my own self-worth and sexuality. (Of course, now I'll be analyzing myself for the rest of the night.)

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Slut Shaming - 3/1/2015 4:55:11 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Kaliko, would you consider PTSD to be a superfluous term made up by those in the mental health field?


I couldn't comment on that. I don't know enough about it to say.



(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 100
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