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bounty44 -> RE: Oscar Wilde's revenge: Ireland votes Yes to Marriage Equality (5/26/2015 9:21:39 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
of course they all have different agendas...and every one of them is some form of collectivism that is at odds with emphasis on, and the freedom of, the individual.
no narrower distinctions were necessary in my post.
if i am talking about animals, I don't have to make distinctions between bears, deer and mice when my point is some trait they all share in common.
So purile.
You havent even got a clue of what freedom is if you think that way. let me remind you it was due to the collectiveness of the ordinary working man that ened up with our Bill of Rights, on which yours is based.
You have tried to denigrate a joyous thread which was voted on by all sections of Irish society into a left vs right issue.
This fact will piss you off royally, pun fully intended. Your revolution gave you more in common with Marxism than you ever dreamt of, it certainly wasnt inline with Conservative thinking of the 1700s.
it sounds like you don't know leftists have their own definition of freedom that differs greatly from conservatives and especially libertarians. so again, instead of being presumptuous, you might ask how I understand "freedom."
that said:
quote:
"COLLECTIVISM: Collectivism is defined as the theory and practice that makes some sort of group rather than the individual the fundamental unit of political, social, and economic concern. In theory, collectivists insist that the claims of groups, associations, or the state must normally supersede the claims of individuals." -- Stephen Grabill and Gregory M. A. Gronbacher,
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"collectivism ... treats society as if it were a super-organism existing over and above its individual members, and which takes the collective in some form (e.g., tribe, race, or state) to be the primary unit of reality and standard of value." -- Prof. Fred D. Miller
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"Collectivism means the subjugation of the individual to a group -- whether to a race, class or state does not matter. Collectivism holds that man must be chained to collective action and collective thought for the sake of what is called 'the common good'." -- Ayn Rand,
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"Collectivism is the doctrine that the social collective -- called society, the people, the state, etc. -- has rights, needs, or moral authority above and apart from the individuals who comprise it. We hear this idea continually championed in such familiar platitudes as 'the needs of the people take precedence over the rights of the individual,' 'production for people, not profits,' and 'the common good.' “Collectivism often sounds humane because it stresses the importance of human needs. In reality, it is little more than a rationalization for sacrificing you and me to the desires of others." -- Jarret B. Wollstein in The Causes of Aggression,
If those aren’t commonalities between progressives/liberals/socialists/communists, then the sky isnt blue.
and for lots more:
http://freedomkeys.com/collectivism.htm
Here’s someone else who is saying the same thing, except for his common ground is “power and control” (which is also true)
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Socialists, Marxists, Communists, Liberals and Progressives…Same animals, same pack!
(although, maybe he is “puerile” too?)
http://joeforamerica.com/2013/11/socialists-marxists-communists-liberals-progressivessame-animals-pack/
or try bill whittle:
http://americaswatchtower.com/2014/10/10/firewall-with-bill-whittle-youre-not-a-liberal/
if you have an actual argument as to how progressives/liberals/socialists/communists are not all collectivists, you might want to share that rather than changing the subject, or calling me puerile.
or you can just keep "celebrating the joyous occasion."
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