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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/2/2015 9:18:59 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		The point I am making tweak is that these terrorists no longer have the protection of the government. They have gone too far and have also attacked liberal Israeli groups and the Israeli military. This is different than in the past.

Butch

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/3/2015 4:00:49 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		No it isnt......these attacks have happened before with the same words sprayed onto buildings. They were condemned as terrorist attacks by the US, back around 2012.

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/4/2015 7:09:08 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The point I am making tweak is that these terrorists no longer have the protection of the government. They have gone too far and have also attacked liberal Israeli groups and the Israeli military. This is different than in the past.

Butch

It may be that you are far too trusting in the good faith of Netanyahoo and the rest of his criminal gang.

In the recent past, the only time that action was taken against the Zionist fanatics was when they murdered someone. Anything and everything else was permitted by Netanyahoo, who is dependent for his political survival on support from the settlers/colonists. So on the surface, nothing much has changed. It remains to be seen whether the promised crackdown will apply only in cases of murder and anything and everything else to terrorise Palestinians will be permitted (and encouraged), or whether the Israeli Govt has a genuine change of heart.

When Israel abandons its ethnic cleansing, which is the Netanyahoo sponsored policy that underwrites settler/colonist violence against Palestinians, then it will be time to accept Israel's good faith. Until then it would be rash in the extreme to place too much reliance on Netanyahoo's words. Even among politicians Netanyahoo enjoys a reputation as a liar ... as your President noted in some off the cuff remarks not so long ago.

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/4/2015 7:58:45 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		tweak I am not basing my comments on the good faith of Netanyahoo and the past. I believe the narrow victory in the last election and the pressure from competing parties over the recent stabbings of gays and the burning of churches and attacks on the military within Israel will force Netanyahoo to bring these extremists to justice....We will see I guess.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/4/2015 10:15:54 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		Terrorism from the Israeli Right isn't a new phenomenon. Here's some of the incidents they have caused over the years, compiled by Israeli paper Haaretz.

Netanyahoo et al have had years to take a stand against the fanatics but has done more to encourage the looneys on Israel's Right than bring them to heel. If you think he's suddenly going to change and become all democratic and law abiding, think again. If he was serious the first thing to do is to stop the ethnic cleansing. You can bet your bottom dollar that isn't going to happen.

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/4/2015 11:12:22 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I understand that but....This is a new political reality in Israel.

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/4/2015 3:52:49 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

tweak I am not basing my comments on the good faith of Netanyahoo and the past. I believe the narrow victory in the last election and the pressure from competing parties over the recent stabbings of gays and the burning of churches and attacks on the military within Israel will force Netanyahoo to bring these extremists to justice....We will see I guess.

Butch


You still miss the point. If something had been done in the first place, to halt illegal settlements, the current level of violence by the settler movement wouldnt have been reached.


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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/4/2015 6:19:42 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		But you see I agree with you on the settlements so I am not missing the point... I am just talking about the recent incidents and what i think will be the reaction to them. I believe it will be different than in the past.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/5/2015 1:01:05 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		The 'settlements'/colonies are much more than little semi-agricultural outposts built on stolen land. At one level, they are a major obstacle to peace. At another level, they are also bases from which the ethnic cleansing of Palestine is conducted.

I'm not sure that you fully grasp the extent of settler/colonist violence and aggression that emanates from these colonies. Attacks are launched from the colonies on Palestinian farms villages homes and people on a daily basis. These attacks are so vicious that (for example) in many areas, the IDF is forced to accompany Palestinian children en route to school every day to safeguard the kids from attacks by the colonists. The attacks can be anything from stone throwing to crop sabotage, arson, home demolitions and shootings,as well as physical assaults.

It is virtually unheard of for any colonists to be arrested for these attacks. In many cases the IDF protects the settlers from Palestinians trying to defend their homes, villages and lives, often joining in the attacks themselves. The colonies act as bases from which these attacks are planned launched and havens for the thugs to retire to when they feel they have done enough ethnic cleansing for a day. It must be stressed that these attacks are daily occurrences, so common that they are no longer newsworthy.

Seen from this perspective, it is inevitable that tragedies such as the poor infant being burned to death will happen. Such tragedies will continue to occur for as long as the authorities turn a blind eye to, and/or protect and are complicit with settler violence. These attacks are an integral part of Israel's ethnic cleansing program. For as long as the official policy of ethnic cleansing continues, for as long as the authorities maintain a culture of impunity behind which the colonist thugs and the IDF can continue their attacks the tragedies such the OP will continue to occur.

Declaring an intention to stop this rampant violence is not sufficient. Mere words designed to placate international reaction to the tragedy will do nothing to remove the cause of the ongoing colonist aggression. Do you really believe that Netanyahoo will take the Palestinian's side against the colonists - the same colonists whose Knesset votes delivered the Prime Ministership to Netanyahoo? Do you really believe that this tragedy is sufficient to make him change policies he has pursued all his political career, to abandon the goal of integrating the whole of the West Bamk into Israel and ethnically cleansing the land of its inhabitants? Only a radical change in policy and policy goals will ensure a stop to colonist violence and aggression to defenceless Palestinians.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe that such a change of policy is in the offing.

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/5/2015 5:53:33 AM   
Sanity


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Do you have credible cites for any of that?

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/5/2015 6:29:23 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Do you have credible cites for any of that?

You will find all the claims I listed in my previous post supported by evidence at the B'Tselem (the Israeli Human Rights organisation) site, which has a special section on settler/colonist violence here, the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights site here which carries weekly reports of human rights violations in Occupied Palestine, and in numerous reports and interviews by people such as Amnesty International here or the Red Cross here

There is also a mountain of video evidence at YouTube - just type in 'Palestine ethnic cleansing' and/or 'Palestine settler violence' and browse away. I trust this is enough material to satisfy you and even the most blinkered person will concede that people like B'Tselem, the PCHR, the Red Cross and Amnesty are both independent and credible. If you need more there's plenty more available - mountains of it in fact.

The weight of evidence is so overwhelming that there is no credible basis for rejecting the claims I made, especially that settler/colonist violence and aggression, often aided and abetted by the IDF and state-sponsored Israeli ethnic cleansing are daily facts of life in Occupied Palestine.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/5/2015 6:42:21 AM >

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/5/2015 6:42:38 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		There has been a significant arrest.

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/6/2015 2:50:02 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There has been a significant arrest.



There have two arrests of Zionist extremists but it is unclear which arrest you are referring to. It seems most likely you are referring to the imprisonment of Mordechai Meyer

Meyer is believed to be implicated in this arson attack on a Christian church recently and has been interned without trial for 6 months. Mayer's lawyer is reported in the Times of Israel as stating there is nothing in his file to connect him to the death of the Palestinian infant.

According to The Guardian, the other, Meir Ettinger "was not being held under administrative detention but was arrested for “involvement in an extremist Jewish organisation”. The Shin Bet security agency would not say if Ettinger is also suspected in the West Bank arson attack." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/05/israel-jails-suspected-jewish-extremist-without-trial-following-attacks

So it is far from clear whether anyone implicated in the murderous arson attack on the poor Palestinian tot has been put in custody or not. And it seems highly unlikely that the hundreds if not thousands of settler/colonist thugs who carry out the everyday ethnic cleansing (and the IDF terrorists who are complicit with them) have seen anything that will cause them to change their ways.

Of course the Israeli Govt was silent when it comes to the cause of the problem - the Occupation of Palestine - so there doesn't appear to me to be any real grounds for optimism.


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/6/2015 2:52:20 AM >

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/6/2015 7:57:59 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Do you have credible cites for any of that?

You will find all the claims I listed in my previous post supported by evidence at the B'Tselem (the Israeli Human Rights organisation) site, which has a special section on settler/colonist violence here, the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights site here which carries weekly reports of human rights violations in Occupied Palestine, and in numerous reports and interviews by people such as Amnesty International here or the Red Cross here

There is also a mountain of video evidence at YouTube - just type in 'Palestine ethnic cleansing' and/or 'Palestine settler violence' and browse away. I trust this is enough material to satisfy you and even the most blinkered person will concede that people like B'Tselem, the PCHR, the Red Cross and Amnesty are both independent and credible. If you need more there's plenty more available - mountains of it in fact.

The weight of evidence is so overwhelming that there is no credible basis for rejecting the claims I made, especially that settler/colonist violence and aggression, often aided and abetted by the IDF and state-sponsored Israeli ethnic cleansing are daily facts of life in Occupied Palestine.


I wrote, credible sources. I checked the home page of your http://www.btselem.org/ source, and its all anti-Israel, all of the time. Your second link took me to "The Palestinian Center For Human Rights", another obviously biased source. Your Amnesty International site totally ignores the widespread, grievous and infamous provocations against Israel in its reporting, thereby coloring its report as heavy biased. And your Red Cross source while more balanced isnt actually saying what your you and your other propaganda sources are

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/6/2015 8:00:53 AM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There has been a significant arrest.



There have two arrests of Zionist extremists but it is unclear which arrest you are referring to. It seems most likely you are referring to the imprisonment of Mordechai Meyer

Meyer is believed to be implicated in this arson attack on a Christian church recently and has been interned without trial for 6 months. Mayer's lawyer is reported in the Times of Israel as stating there is nothing in his file to connect him to the death of the Palestinian infant.

According to The Guardian, the other, Meir Ettinger "was not being held under administrative detention but was arrested for “involvement in an extremist Jewish organisation”. The Shin Bet security agency would not say if Ettinger is also suspected in the West Bank arson attack." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/05/israel-jails-suspected-jewish-extremist-without-trial-following-attacks

So it is far from clear whether anyone implicated in the murderous arson attack on the poor Palestinian tot has been put in custody or not. And it seems highly unlikely that the hundreds if not thousands of settler/colonist thugs who carry out the everyday ethnic cleansing (and the IDF terrorists who are complicit with them) have seen anything that will cause them to change their ways.

Of course the Israeli Govt was silent when it comes to the cause of the problem - the Occupation of Palestine - so there doesn't appear to me to be any real grounds for optimism.



Why do far left people seem to rely so heavily on The Guardian for their European anti-Israel "news stories"

(Rhetorical question)





< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/6/2015 8:01:46 AM >

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/6/2015 8:20:18 AM   
crazyml


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Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There has been a significant arrest.



There have two arrests of Zionist extremists but it is unclear which arrest you are referring to. It seems most likely you are referring to the imprisonment of Mordechai Meyer

Meyer is believed to be implicated in this arson attack on a Christian church recently and has been interned without trial for 6 months. Mayer's lawyer is reported in the Times of Israel as stating there is nothing in his file to connect him to the death of the Palestinian infant.

According to The Guardian, the other, Meir Ettinger "was not being held under administrative detention but was arrested for “involvement in an extremist Jewish organisation”. The Shin Bet security agency would not say if Ettinger is also suspected in the West Bank arson attack." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/05/israel-jails-suspected-jewish-extremist-without-trial-following-attacks

So it is far from clear whether anyone implicated in the murderous arson attack on the poor Palestinian tot has been put in custody or not. And it seems highly unlikely that the hundreds if not thousands of settler/colonist thugs who carry out the everyday ethnic cleansing (and the IDF terrorists who are complicit with them) have seen anything that will cause them to change their ways.

Of course the Israeli Govt was silent when it comes to the cause of the problem - the Occupation of Palestine - so there doesn't appear to me to be any real grounds for optimism.



Why do far left people seem to rely so heavily on The Guardian for their European anti-Israel "news stories"


Gosh, that's a tough one, since it would be absurd for a "far left person" to rely upon a "center-left" newspaper.


quote:



(Rhetorical question)




Nope. It was a <finger quotes>stupid question</finger quotes>

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/6/2015 8:32:41 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I trust this is enough material to satisfy you and even the most blinkered person will concede that people like B'Tselem, the PCHR, the Red Cross and Amnesty are both independent and credible.



I wrote, credible sources.

"Credible" doesn't appear to have the same meaning for you as for most people. Most people understand 'credible" as something that is likely to be true, something that can be believed.

For you, "credible" appears to mean something that is consistent with your looney Right ideology. Good luck with that.

All your pathetic quibbling about sources is distinctly Plan B stuff. When it's impossible to challenge the facts (Plan A), resort to Plan B - try to dispute and discredit the sources. Sad and pathetic that you are blinding yourself to the so very obvious but even sadder is that it's no surprise.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/6/2015 8:41:30 AM >

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/6/2015 8:58:18 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I trust this is enough material to satisfy you and even the most blinkered person will concede that people like B'Tselem, the PCHR, the Red Cross and Amnesty are both independent and credible.



I wrote, credible sources.

"Credible" doesn't appear to have the same meaning for you as for most people. Most people understand 'credible" as something that is likely to be true, something that can be believed.

For you, "credible" appears to mean something that is consistent with your looney Right ideology. Good luck with that.

All your pathetic quibbling about sources is distinctly Plan B stuff. When it's impossible to challenge the facts (Plan A), resort to Plan B - try to dispute and discredit the sources. Sad and pathetic that you are blinding yourself to the so very obvious but even sadder is that it's no surprise.


When combined with the word "sources" the word "credible" takes on a special meaning, as in sources that arent biased

And the only reason you and your friend have to resort to ad hominems is that your case is very weak, leaving you no recourse other than attacking the person (as is typical for leftists in any given debate)

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/6/2015 8:58:19 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:


I wrote, credible sources. I checked the home page of your http://www.btselem.org/ source, and its all anti-Israel, all of the time.


It's an Israeli organisation.

I think if an organisation constantly sees a given body doing bad things, it's going to look like an anti-that-body organisation. I can't see how it'd be otherwise.

I mean, for instance, you wouldn't trash every American organisations' reporting on the KKK because they all looked like they were 'anti KKK', would you?

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RE: Firebombs kill Palestinian child - 8/6/2015 4:44:53 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


I wrote, credible sources. I checked the home page of your http://www.btselem.org/ source, and its all anti-Israel, all of the time.


It's an Israeli organisation.

I think if an organisation constantly sees a given body doing bad things, it's going to look like an anti-that-body organisation. I can't see how it'd be otherwise.

I mean, for instance, you wouldn't trash every American organisations' reporting on the KKK because they all looked like they were 'anti KKK', would you?


Dont be silly .......... Obviously the other Israelis are anti Israeli, didnt you read what Sanity said ?

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