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RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/16/2015 5:07:32 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Fast reply:

So neither Bama or Sanity will give an answer to the question.

'Fair to say that speaks volumes.


I pointed out that your question is based on a fallacy

Welcome to the real world. Here, you dont always get the answer you so petulantly demand

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RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/16/2015 5:18:07 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

Wow!
So you think al Queda and ISIS are the same? Is there anyone stupid or so uninformed they still believe that?


Wow! At the time they were affiliates!

You are a moron!

Wow!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/al-qaeda-disavows-any-ties-with-radical-islamist-isis-group-in-syria-iraq/2014/02/03/2c9afc3a-8cef-11e3-98ab-fe5228217bd1_story.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

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RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/16/2015 6:52:23 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

(1) How many troops and how much money should the US spend fighting ISIS? What's the total cost you want US Tax Payers to pay? $500 Billion?

(2) While we're fighting ISIS, how much money do you want the US government to spend deporting potential immigrants? Do you want the current budget doubled to $40 Billion Dollars a year?

How will items (1) and (2) affect US economic growth?


Since when were "liberals" concerned primarily about cost, when it came to resolving humanitarian crisis or stemming the tide of barbaric religious fanatics' crusades against science, and women, and gays etc

(I smell a hypocrite)



So, there's absolutely no thought or realism to anything you're saying -- you're just mad as hell -- without any semblance of a plan or solution. Nice job. FYI: this makes you an empty read.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 2:16:02 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


From The Washington Post:

quote:

Leader of Islamic State used American hostage as sexual slave




well,.. I expect that the US State Dept issued multiple strong warnings about going to countries like this.. surely she knew the extreme risk she took in going there?.. perhaps her humanitarian efforts would have been better spent in helping the homeless in the US instead.. they need all the help they can get since so many Americans coldly turn their back on them... and she would be alive and unharmed today.. This story reminds me of Rachel Corrie.. people have to accept responsibility for their decisions.. Each person has the responsibility to keep themselves as safe as possible.. if you jump out of a plane and your parachute doesnt open, well, you have to accept the risk and what goes with it, imo..

the reality is that the illegal Iraq war cost the US billions of dollars and thousands of American lives (as well as thousands of lives of innocents).. and it gave these militants/terrorists more ammunition to grow and make the US their enemy & to even entice Americans to join them.. The US has been fighting this "war on terror" since 9/11 and it is no closer to ending now than it did then..

jmo..




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RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 2:46:19 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


From The Washington Post:

quote:

Leader of Islamic State used American hostage as sexual slave




well,.. I expect that the US State Dept issued multiple strong warnings about going to countries like this.. surely she knew the extreme risk she took in going there?.. perhaps her humanitarian efforts would have been better spent in helping the homeless in the US instead.. they need all the help they can get since so many Americans coldly turn their back on them... and she would be alive and unharmed today.. This story reminds me of Rachel Corrie.. people have to accept responsibility for their decisions.. Each person has the responsibility to keep themselves as safe as possible.. if you jump out of a plane and your parachute doesnt open, well, you have to accept the risk and what goes with it, imo..

the reality is that the illegal Iraq war cost the US billions of dollars and thousands of American lives (as well as thousands of lives of innocents).. and it gave these militants/terrorists more ammunition to grow and make the US their enemy & to even entice Americans to join them.. The US has been fighting this "war on terror" since 9/11 and it is no closer to ending now than it did then..

jmo..




I love the way leftists declare something like Iraq to be illegal and then expect everyone to accept that as fact. Bush had Congressional approval. That means it was legal.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 3:52:10 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I love the way leftists declare something like Iraq to be illegal and then expect everyone to accept that as fact. Bush had Congressional approval. That means it was legal.


A nice way to overlook two pertinent facts.

1) our leftist leader thoguht it was legal, most on the right didnt.
2) Do you really think Bush would have got a yes vote WITHOUT the big WMD lie ?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 4:38:35 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I love the way leftists declare something like Iraq to be illegal and then expect everyone to accept that as fact. Bush had Congressional approval. That means it was legal.


A nice way to overlook two pertinent facts.

1) our leftist leader thoguht it was legal, most on the right didnt.
2) Do you really think Bush would have got a yes vote WITHOUT the big WMD lie ?



ISIS apologists keep going back to the lefts lies about Bush, as if Bush is even pertinent to 2015? Any more than Jimmuh Cottuh is pertinent to Iran 2015?

BS, simply an attempt at obfuscating the actual issue, which is Islamist fanatics and our current presidents negligence regarding the problem

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 5:10:32 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline 		[/quote]
well,.. I expect that the US State Dept issued multiple strong warnings about going to countries like this.. surely she knew the extreme risk she took in going there?.. perhaps her humanitarian efforts would have been better spent in helping the homeless in the US instead.. they need all the help they can get since so many Americans coldly turn their back on them... and she would be alive and unharmed today.. This story reminds me of Rachel Corrie.. people have to accept responsibility for their decisions.. Each person has the responsibility to keep themselves as safe as possible.. if you jump out of a plane and your parachute doesnt open, well, you have to accept the risk and what goes with it, imo..
[/quote]

That sounds an awful lot like victim-blaming.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 5:56:00 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:



well,.. I expect that the US State Dept issued multiple strong warnings about going to countries like this.. surely she knew the extreme risk she took in going there?.. perhaps her humanitarian efforts would have been better spent in helping the homeless in the US instead.. they need all the help they can get since so many Americans coldly turn their back on them... and she would be alive and unharmed today.. This story reminds me of Rachel Corrie.. people have to accept responsibility for their decisions.. Each person has the responsibility to keep themselves as safe as possible.. if you jump out of a plane and your parachute doesnt open, well, you have to accept the risk and what goes with it, imo..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
That sounds an awful lot like victim-blaming.


She put herself in a country where women have no rights, no one in their right mind voluntarily goes to a place like that.. ffs, even some men in the military would rather desert than go there!

But it wasnt the former IS leader that killed her, it was a Jordanian bomb that ended her life.. The former IS leader forced her to be his concubine but there are millions of women and children around the world (some are smuggled into the US and forced to service American men) that are kidnapped, forced into sexual slavery, where is the outrage and help for them? There were 3 other women held with her and in the same situation as her, but no one mentions them cuz i guess they arent American so they dont matter?

< Message edited by tj444 -- 8/17/2015 5:58:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 5:57:47 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


well,.. I expect that the US State Dept issued multiple strong warnings about going to countries like this.. surely she knew the extreme risk she took in going there?.. perhaps her humanitarian efforts would have been better spent in helping the homeless in the US instead.. they need all the help they can get since so many Americans coldly turn their back on them... and she would be alive and unharmed today.. This story reminds me of Rachel Corrie.. people have to accept responsibility for their decisions.. Each person has the responsibility to keep themselves as safe as possible.. if you jump out of a plane and your parachute doesnt open, well, you have to accept the risk and what goes with it, imo..


That sounds an awful lot like victim-blaming.


bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:02:13 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I love the way leftists declare something like Iraq to be illegal and then expect everyone to accept that as fact. Bush had Congressional approval. That means it was legal.


A nice way to overlook two pertinent facts.

1) our leftist leader thoguht it was legal, most on the right didnt.
2) Do you really think Bush would have got a yes vote WITHOUT the big WMD lie ?



ISIS apologists keep going back to the lefts lies about Bush, as if Bush is even pertinent to 2015?

if what Bush did after 9/11 and the illegal Iraq war is pertinent to the extremists and terrorists, giving them a reason/cause to hate the US, then yes, of course its pertinent today! (2015)..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 8/17/2015 6:03:31 PM >

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:05:53 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3661
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: online 		FR

Requirements of the US Constitution of Congress voting to declare war on Iraq had been met. By US law, the invasion was legal.

Foreign intelligence is never an exact science and can never be taken at face value. Sources must be verified. Motives must be questioned. The Bush Administration being provided faulty intelligence is absolutely worthy of investigation, if for no other reason than to prevent our leadership from being mislead in future tensions.

That said, everything we knew about Saddam Hussein lead us to believe that he had chemical weapons. He had already demonstrated this by using these weapons against his own people, which is ultimately the reason he was sentenced to hanging by an Iraqi court.

What we see now is a civil war, which the Iraqi government is not prepared nor equipped to put down. I don't doubt that ISIS would have existed if Saddam remained in power today, the only difference being they would be called 'police' or 'Iraqi Army'.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:06:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I love the way leftists declare something like Iraq to be illegal and then expect everyone to accept that as fact. Bush had Congressional approval. That means it was legal.


A nice way to overlook two pertinent facts.

1) our leftist leader thoguht it was legal, most on the right didnt.
2) Do you really think Bush would have got a yes vote WITHOUT the big WMD lie ?



ISIS apologists keep going back to the lefts lies about Bush, as if Bush is even pertinent to 2015?

if what Bush did after 9/11 and the illegal Iraq war is pertinent to the extremists and terrorists, giving them a reason/cause to hate the US, then yes, of course its pertinent today! (2015)..

Apparently it didn't sink in the first time HE HAD CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL SO IT WAS LEGAL.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:08:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

FR

Requirements of the US Constitution of Congress voting to declare war on Iraq had been met. By US law, the invasion was legal.

Foreign intelligence is never an exact science and can never be taken at face value. Sources must be verified. Motives must be questioned. The Bush Administration being provided faulty intelligence is absolutely worthy of investigation, if for no other reason than to prevent our leadership from being mislead in future tensions.

That said, everything we knew about Saddam Hussein lead us to believe that he had chemical weapons. He had already demonstrated this by using these weapons against his own people, which is ultimately the reason he was sentenced to hanging by an Iraqi court.

What we see now is a civil war, which the Iraqi government is not prepared nor equipped to put down. I don't doubt that ISIS would have existed if Saddam remained in power today, the only difference being they would be called 'police' or 'Iraqi Army'.

And Obama pulling out early (again with Congressional approval) certainly didn't help things.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:24:53 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3661
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: online 		We all knew going in that we could not stay in Iraq forever. The costs for the US have been entirely too high, both in lives and expenses. It absolutely cannot be up to the US alone to guarantee that democracy prevails in Iraq.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:29:15 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

if what Bush did after 9/11 and the illegal Iraq war is pertinent to the extremists and terrorists, giving them a reason/cause to hate the US, then yes, of course its pertinent today! (2015)..


Theyre kidnapping and torturing and raping and murdering Yazidis why, exactly.

Its unsound reasoning to try to blame Islamist atrocities on anyone other than the Islamists themselves




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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:30:54 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

We all knew going in that we could not stay in Iraq forever. The costs for the US have been entirely too high, both in lives and expenses. It absolutely cannot be up to the US alone to guarantee that democracy prevails in Iraq.


Weve been in Japan and Germany "forever"

Obamas abandoning the Iraqi people was very cold blooded. He knew what their fate would be and he did nothing

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:36:08 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

We all knew going in that we could not stay in Iraq forever. The costs for the US have been entirely too high, both in lives and expenses. It absolutely cannot be up to the US alone to guarantee that democracy prevails in Iraq.

No but we should have made sure that the Iraqis could defend themselves.
I have always said that when we go in to help someone, and by that time this is what we were doing, we need to have their troops do most of the ground fighting.
This is for two reasons
A They have more of a stake in their country because they earned it.
B They are more capable of doing the fighting for themselves.

The job isn't done till they can defend themselves. This is not just a weakness in Obama, it has been a problem with how we do things since WW II.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:38:01 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3661
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: online 		I would have no problem with a permanent US military base in Iraq. In fact, it's likely necessary, considering the stability issues all over the region.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: American Aid Worker Enslaved, Tortured, Repeatedly ... - 8/17/2015 6:41:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I would have no problem with a permanent US military base in Iraq. In fact, it's likely necessary, considering the stability issues all over the region.

Particularly if we follow Trump's idea and make them pay for it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 140
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