quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Well liberals are faced with science denying cons like yourself on a daily basis, so they're worried about the cost quite often, especially since your ilk are putting in nearly the same efforts as ISIS to send us back to the stone age

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Further, many of these places you speak of that are majority Muslim, practice some version of Islamic law which can mean things like, women are severely punished for being raped. Or gays face the death penalty, or other forms of punishment etc

Its not pleasant, despite the ignorant propaganda so many leftists like to regurgitate

I am not confident that I know everything. I am confident that people who have studied this know more about it than those who don't.

You've quoted a load of verses from the Quran, well....

http://www.evilbible.com/Evil%20Bible%20Quotes.htm

...isn't the USA majority Christian? Republicans especially...

"Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock" Psalm 137:9

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to be kept silent." 1 Timothy 2:12

"And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and all shall eat the flesh of their neighbours in the siege, and in the distress with which their enemies and those who seek their life afflict them." Jeremiah 19:9

"Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is to your credit if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly." 1 Peter 2:18

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22

Yeah, there might be loads of horrible shit in the Quran if you're gay, or a woman, etc. But the same goes for the Bible. And there is this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#Ku_Klux_Klan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph

Would it be absolutely ludicrous to hold the average US Christian to account for the actions of those terrorists? Of course. But you're doing that to what you call "Islamists".

If it isn't fear that motivates you then it's basically race/culture hate, which puts you in the same camp as those Christian terrorists.

Thats a fallacious argument, fails to contradict anything I posted nor does it in any way uphold any of your previous lies and ignorance

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

You said, basically, "Islamists are evil! Look at all of these Quran quotes!"

I said, basically, "Then why aren't Christians evil? Their holy book has similar quotes"

You respond, basically, "WAAAAAHHHH!!!!"

Incidentally; I didn't lie about at all. All of my information was, unlike yours, sourced.

Look man, it's cool that you hate Islamists. I've got no problem with that. I've got no problem with hatred, bigotry, stupidity, ignorance, and all of the other key characteristics of humanity. This is also why I don't have a problem with Islamists either. Whether they're ranting in the street or dropping bombs, I don't really care as long as it doesn't effect me. I just don't like cognitive dissonance.

Your very clear anger towards Islamists is based either on pant-wetting fear or slobbering hatred, not on anything logical or reasonable.

But that's ok too. In that regard you're not unlike a lot of people living in the West circa 2015.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Since you can't refute the accusations made against the Bush administration, you demonize the people that spoke out.

There is no candidate in this election that feels Iraq was justified. Hillary voted for it, with the faulty information Congress was given at the time. Bernie didn't. I'm not sure any other Senators running were in office for the 2003 vote. Trump probably would've invaded Mexico instead.

As Americans, we hold ourselves to higher standards than the majority of our enemies. The world holds us to higher standards because they (at least did) look to us for leadership. We're going to have missteps of course, it's a lot of pressure being under so much scrutiny.

But even if we could have saved our reputation and good standing after leading our allies into a misguided invasion of Iraq, our failures have cost us dearly. And they have cost the people of Iraq dearly.

Does it make sense to be angry with people that spoke the truth? Or the people that committed horrible actions that had to be spoken out against?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Problem with this is that they see their divine mission is to convert everyone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Problem with this is that they see their divine mission is to convert everyone.

On another thread you said to me: "there you go again being reasonable".

So, in the interests of being reasonable:

Can you tell me which countries the United States has invaded in and meddled in, not the only ones by the way, but since you're American it's close to home so you'll be able to answer.

Then tell me how many times there has even been a sniff of Middle Eastern countries getting involved in North America.

And then, form your conclusion on who exactly is trying to convert whom.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Problem with this is that they see their divine mission is to convert everyone.

On another thread you said to me: "there you go again being reasonable".

So, in the interests of being reasonable:

Can you tell me which countries the United States has invaded in and meddled in, not the only ones by the way, but since you're American it's close to home so you'll be able to answer.

Then tell me how many times there has even been a sniff of Middle Eastern countries getting involved in North America.

And then, form your conclusion on who exactly is trying to convert whom.

How many times does that false narrative have to be destroyed before leftists finally give it a rest and quit parroting it

We tried to convert Kuwait? Nazi Germany? Imperial Japan? (well, okay - we did convert Japan).

After liberating the people of Iraq from possibly the most brutal tyrant the world has ever known we willingly left Iraq to their own devices, only to ignore them as they pleaded and begged us for help against ISIS

Thats "converting them"? That makes us monsters?

Heres some news for you. Its the Islamists who have been killing, enslaving, subjugating, destroying, forcefully converting everyone they have encountered ever since the time of Muhammad.

ISIS is merely following in Muhammads bloody footsteps

You, a Brit, arent anyone to rag on the USA for "meddling" in the Middle East btw, with your sordid national past...

(Another hypocrite)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Answer the question:

Is the United States in the Middle East? Are Middle Eastern countries in the United States?

Yes or no?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Answer the question:

Is the United States in the Middle East? Are Middle Eastern countries in the United States?

Yes or no?

Your fallacy, is a false dilemma

Islamists, arent a nation

And yes, there are Islamists here.

Next fallacy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Answer the question:

Is the United States in the Middle East? Are Middle Eastern countries in the United States?

Yes or no?

Your fallacy, is a false dilemma

Islamists, arent a nation

And yes, there are Islamists here.

Next fallacy?

From your own post:

"Heres some news for you. Its the Islamists who have been killing, enslaving, subjugating, destroying, forcefully converting everyone they have encountered ever since the time of Muhammad"

Now, we know that the United States and associates have been trying to convert people in the Middle East because we have been told it over and over again from the horses mouth: "we're spreading democracy".

When was the last time you or anyone else on this board met "an Islamist" let alone been the subject of a conversion attempt?

Who is trying to convert whom?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Answer the question:

Is the United States in the Middle East? Are Middle Eastern countries in the United States?

Yes or no?

Your fallacy, is a false dilemma

Islamists, arent a nation

And yes, there are Islamists here.

Next fallacy?

From your own post:

"Heres some news for you. Its the Islamists who have been killing, enslaving, subjugating, destroying, forcefully converting everyone they have encountered ever since the time of Muhammad"

Now, we know that the United States and associates have been trying to convert people in the Middle East because we have been told it over and over again from the horses mouth: "we're spreading democracy".

When was the last time you or anyone else on this board met "an Islamist" let alone been the subject of a conversion attempt?

Who is trying to convert whom?

The last time I met an Islamist was 2003. He tried to equate the U S not having national health care with the atrocities committed by Hussein and by the French in Libya. Have you heard of Garland and the recruiting stations in Pennsylvania? Don't you believe them when they say they want to destroy us and for that matter you?
After Obama deserted Iraq to their fate don't you think that we owe those people something.
As for converting.
We converted the Japanese and Germans to democracies.
But ISIS and company don't just want a political "conversion" they demand that we and everyone else convert to their perverted version of Islam. They are a threat to everyone, you included.
If the mideast blows up it will spread. I don't advocate converting them to Christianity, I don't think anyone here does. I do advocate converting the monsters who crucify children into corpses.
The world needs to be rid of this poison.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Answer the question:

Is the United States in the Middle East? Are Middle Eastern countries in the United States?

Yes or no?

Your fallacy, is a false dilemma

Islamists, arent a nation

And yes, there are Islamists here.

Next fallacy?

From your own post:

"Heres some news for you. Its the Islamists who have been killing, enslaving, subjugating, destroying, forcefully converting everyone they have encountered ever since the time of Muhammad"

Now, we know that the United States and associates have been trying to convert people in the Middle East because we have been told it over and over again from the horses mouth: "we're spreading democracy".

When was the last time you or anyone else on this board met "an Islamist" let alone been the subject of a conversion attempt?

Who is trying to convert whom?

The last time I met an Islamist was 2003. He tried to equate the U S not having national health care with the atrocities committed by Hussein and by the French in Libya. Have you heard of Garland and the recruiting stations in Pennsylvania? Don't you believe them when they say they want to destroy us and for that matter you?
After Obama deserted Iraq to their fate don't you think that we owe those people something.
As for converting.
We converted the Japanese and Germans to democracies.
But ISIS and company don't just want a political "conversion" they demand that we and everyone else convert to their perverted version of Islam. They are a threat to everyone, you included.
If the mideast blows up it will spread. I don't advocate converting them to Christianity, I don't think anyone here does. I do advocate converting the monsters who crucify children into corpses.
The world needs to be rid of this poison.

Right. You once met an Islamist, 12 years back.

Yet the United States and associates are spreading democracy in the Middle East and having been for a while. That's what your government has been saying for a long time now, and people on this board.

So, who is trying to convert whom? Who is it that is meddling in other people's affairs?

Not much point in going on in the event this fact can not be accepted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

They are monsters and fanatics do you honestly believe that they will be satisfied with Syria? or destroying Israel? Do you want to wait till they are burning people alive in London.
We want people to have more freedom, that does not compare to what they want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

So, who is trying to convert whom? Who is it that is meddling in other people's affairs?

Not much point in going on in the event this fact can not be accepted.

quote:

Biden calls Chattanooga shooter a 'perverted jihadist'

Biden's comments came at a memorial to the five servicemen killed in a shooting rampage by Kuwait-born Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez.

"These perverse ideologues, warped theocrats, they may be able to inspire a single lone wolf to commit a savage act, but they can never, never threaten who we are," Biden said. "When this perverted jihadist struck, everyone responded."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its an insane persons perversion of reality, that compares giving a people freedom from a tyrant (after the tyrant invaded other lands and sponsored terrorism etc), to being enslaved, tortured, and murdered by jihadists

"Oh! The mean old bad bogeyman is going to save me from a tyrant to give me liberty! Wont someone please save me!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I remember a few other issues that turned the public view on Iraq. Silly things like not finding WOMDs, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, finding out our government allows torture, and the fact that we had absolutely no plan on how to leave the country better than when we went in.

But it's our mess and we need to clean it up.

The part I highlighted is a logical fallacy. It's only been since the PPLs (The Hollywood crowd and other commsymps) took hold of this country that the idea of a vanquished aggressor deserving anything more than utter destruction has come into play.

Saddam had WoMDs (as far as we knew) and he had used them against his own people and threatened to use them against us.

If I'm walking through a parking lot, late at night, and some big guy walks up to me and threatens bodily harm, should I be responsible for his medical bills, when I've kicked his ass? Hardly. He'd have been healthy, if he hadn't threatened me.

The idea that we have to "spread democracy" is utter bullshit, also. It would be nice if we could get along with everyone in the world and having almost carbon-copy systems of government would help toward that end but we are speaking about sovereign nations that have the same God-given right of self-determination that we have. I don't care if they have an Islamic theocracy; as long as the leave us alone.



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I remember a few other issues that turned the public view on Iraq. Silly things like not finding WOMDs, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, finding out our government allows torture, and the fact that we had absolutely no plan on how to leave the country better than when we went in.

But it's our mess and we need to clean it up.

All used very heavily in the propaganda war

Very effectively too

ISIS couldnt have done a better job had they done it alone

You can say it was used in a propaganda war, but you can't refute any of it.

I'm the first to say Saddam was a bastard and had to be removed from power. I never really saw why it should be up to us, but who the fuck else was gonna do it?

But our intelligence going in was flawed. Our strategic planning and operations were flawed. Our troops were sent in without proper body armor. Our expectations were flawed. Our definition of victory was nowhere near as resolute as is necessary.

These mistakes cannot be repeated.

Cant refute any of it? What BS! Its all essentially PROPAGANDA. Abu Ghraib, the leftist media screamed that it went all the way up to Dick Cheney, which was a lie. Abu Ghraib was a low level crime that Bush vigorously prosecuted. Leftist trash loved showing the pictures all over the planet though, because it hurt the war effort against al Qaeda (ISIS) and aided all of our enemies, all over the world. Helped leftists politically while aiding our enemies and harming our troops and our image abroad.

WMDs, everyone including Saddam Hussein and all of the Democrats I mentioned above thought Saddam had them. And WMDs was only a fraction of the many reason everyone agreed on that we needed to go in there for. But if you listen to the leftists that all gets turned upside down

Torture - waterboarding. Debatable if its torture, and it was used on 1 - 3 high value targets, leaders who had a hand in 9/11 itself and knew of future plans. Of course, leftists wailed and gnashed their teeth and used that to help ISIS, Barack Obama and the Democrats generally and harm the US as a whole, harm the allies in their war effort and endanger our soldiers too, though it was legal and arguably the right thing to do

Gitmo, a prison for terrorists, that Obama still has open

The horror, we put terrorists in a prison

Once again, propagandized to help ISIS and the Democrats and harm the US as a whole, harm the allies in their war effort and endanger our soldiers

You claim that our efforts were flawed, well welcome to the real world. Everything here is flawed, but that doesnt mean that you should use our weaknesses against your fellow citizens as propaganda

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Fast reply:


So neither Bama or Sanity will give an answer to the question.

'Fair to say that speaks volumes.