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RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/29/2015 9:28:42 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
if there's 4 men searching and only one woman available, three guys are left out in the cold --

I don't think the ratio is anywhere near 4:1, but that's what others think.
I think, at best, it's 100:1 (as did a few others), and at worst, it's Ashley-Madison millions to one (as outlined in the prior articles).

Even then, men will take on the odds.
It's what men do.
In fact, it's what makes men men.

< Message edited by crumpets -- 8/29/2015 9:30:31 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 4:47:55 AM   
HoneyBears


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

The distinction is all about motive for sexual behavior.


Could you please enlighten us then, as to what your personal motive is for your sexual behavior?

Because there is nothing intrinsically wrong with personal gain. To gain is to profit.
Profit in this sense is not limited to material gain. It could be ego boosting or ego-aggrandizement stemming from deep-rooted insecurities. It could be getting various (other) needs met.
What is wrong, is to profit at the expense of another.

It has been said that Money Is the Root of All Evil. Not true.
Money is simply a medium of exchange. The lowest form ... or that which is the lowest common denominator that virtually everybody recognizes.
It is the Love of Money or, rather, Having a Love Obsession with Money. Why? Because this leads to selfish and destructive anti-social conduct where Money and the Things that Money Can Buy, come before respecting the rights of other human beings.

When you go around indiscriminately tossing about the s-word and the w-word as it pertains to sexuality, you not only disrespect all women AND men, but you reveal that you have no self-respect for yourself either.
Which is why you do what you do, say what you say, and cannot figure out why you keep coming up empty-handed.

-- Lisa & Cub

_____________________________

"The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman's heart."-- J.G. Holland

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 5:20:55 AM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Could you please enlighten us then, as to what your personal motive is for your sexual behavior?

That's a good question.

Keeping this generic, what is the motive of most men, for their sexual behavior, and, is it DIFFERENT than the motive for the women they have sex with?

Take the Ashley Madison site, for which we have actual recent numbers from multiple sources, as our example.

The site's database contained listings for 31 million PAID male subscribers, of which with 50.8% were tagged as “attached males seeking females”. That's over fifteen million men, at one site alone, who PAID MONEY to find a woman for an affair, admitting outright, that they were attached (how many of the other men were similarly attached, I don't know).

Even the grossly inflated advertised numbers of 5.5 million women who are on the site, gratis (which includes millions of faked accounts, as noted by the researchers) puts the best ratio possible of male:female at 6:1 odds. Now, for men, 6:1 odds are pretty good, as many of you females will note, men will whistle (so to speak) at anything, so, 1,000:1 odds are still worth going after for most men.

Do women go after 1,000:1 odds? I doubt it. For one, they don't have to, since they can hang out at the water fountain at the local park and get more guys in a day (if they wanted to) than a guy can get on Ashley Madison. The odds, for women, are more like 1:1, or, if they're actually going for QUALITY, the odds get a bit more risky, at, oh, something like 10:1, but rarely (I believe) much worse than that (unless they're going for a professional athlete or CEO or rock star - in which case, the odds get increasingly more difficult).

Let's think about that for a moment.

Notice that the ENTIRE SEXUAL EQUATION isn't at all close to what the men and women are faced with, if they want a tryst tonight.

We could go on (as some have) about the biological expense of sex being vastly different for men and for women, and, that the biological benefits of babymaking also being vastly different, but the point is that the conditions are wholly different for sex by men than for sex by women.

Since the CONDITIONS are tremendously different, the MOTIVE is also different. If everything were the same, as some naive posters have intimated in this thread, sure, then there would be this 1:1 ratio of men to women having the same reasons for sex, and the same numbers, in approximately the same ratio.

However, the MOTIVE now changes, purely naturally. It's nobody's fault. The women get CHOOSY and the men take RISKS. It's the natural outcome of the conditions that exist, and have existed since the beginning of time. Nothing I say, whether it's politically correct or not, is going to change anything about our MOTIVES.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Because there is nothing intrinsically wrong with personal gain. To gain is to profit.
Profit in this sense is not limited to material gain. It could be ego boosting or ego-aggrandizement stemming from deep-rooted insecurities. It could be getting various (other) needs met.

I can't disagree.
I'm not ascribing a good or bad label to human sexual behavior.
PC or not, it is what it is, and it is what it always has been, and it is what it always will be.

EDIT: Things may change in the future if there is a huge change in the sexual equation. For example, in China, with far more men than women surviving birth, the equation may change dramatically as it does during wartime when there are far fewer men of certain baby-making ages available. Likewise, if a dramatically new technology arises, such as how the pill liberated women, or how the near elimination of the dangers of STDs can do, then the EQUATION may change dramatically. Also the POLITICAL environment drastically changes the equation (witness the whacky social mores of some areas of the Middle East, for example).

But, I'm assuming classic western-world sexual conditions, for the purpose of this discussion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
What is wrong, is to profit at the expense of another.

Literally, that's how maximizing profit works most of the time (think stock market), but, I get what you meant, which is to TAKE ADVANTAGE of the others' weaknesses is immoral.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
It has been said that Money Is the Root of All Evil. Not true.
Money is simply a medium of exchange. The lowest form ... or that which is the lowest common denominator that virtually everybody recognizes.

I have never been driven by money, so, I can easily agree with you here.
I'm more driven by knowledge, than by money, for example.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
It is the Love of Money or, rather, Having a Love Obsession with Money. Why? Because this leads to selfish and destructive anti-social conduct where Money and the Things that Money Can Buy, come before respecting the rights of other human beings.

Since I'm not a connoisseur of money, I'll not argue either way with you on this.
When I use the term "whore" here, I have been careful to mention that the "GAIN" is something of value to the women, but, I haven't necessarily said it's always money that they gain. They may gain other things, and that isn't my beef what they deem to desire. It could be LOVE or UNDERSTANDING or some other metric of value to them.

Since I'm not very well versed on people's motive solely for MONEY, I'm going to learn from you - by being attentive to what you have to say here, with respect to money and motive.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
When you go around indiscriminately tossing about the s-word and the w-word as it pertains to sexuality, you not only disrespect all women AND men, but you reveal that you have no self-respect for yourself either.

Ah. I see the problem.

You think the word "slut" and "whore" are pejorative, when applied in this conversation.
Would you feel better if I said the same thing in a different way (bearing in mind that none of these are "my" creations)?

How about me repeating the oft stated phrase that every boy learns in high school which is that "men give love to get sex while women give sex to get love"?

Would those ageless words make you feel any better about the cold hard facts?

Bear in mind it's not MY IDEA that men are sluts, versus women are whores, or that men give love to have sex while women give sex to get love, when it comes to motive for sex. I'm just the messenger.

I'm just restating what others have figured out, long before I was ever born, and, what I learned, the very first time my friends and I tried to figure out girls, because their actions were entirely perplexing to us.

We easily understood the actions of the boys; but we couldn't figure out the actions of the girls (the whole playing hard to get stuff confused us to no end, for example - since we don't play that game and we have no understanding of it as can be grossly visualized by the multitudes of profile cock shots on this forum). Girls did funny things that made no sense to us, until we finally (belatedly most of the time, since it made no sense to us) realized that they do things for DIFFERENT REASONS than we did them.

If we played hard to get, it was because we WERE hard to get (we didn't like you). It wasn't because we want you to like us more.
That's stupid (to us) to do the opposite of what you want. We're far more direct than you are. We hit a baseball where we want it to go. That makes sense to us. Girls did the strangest things, and, we only figured out that what they did made no sense years later.

Then, a few years after that, we realized, in an epiphany, that girls' reasons made sense (to them), so, they did have a reason after all, but, it sure was way more complicated than the reasons we did the same things.

Anyway, since boys and girls today are no different than boys and girls of yesterday (or tomorrow), we have to realize that boys and girls do the same thing for different reasons.

Why is that?
I'm just characterizing the answer to that question, in a way that is simply a repeat of many others' characterization.

We have to realize the words are used to strongly characterize the motive, which is that the men do it for simpler reasons than do women, who do it for far more complex reasons than they even realize themselves (ask Masters & Johnson and others).

If you don't like either of those characterizations of what is, and always will be, then I could rephrase it further to meet your politically correct aspirations.

It just doesn't have quite the same ring when I say "men have sex for the sex while women have sex to gain something for sex".
pejorative
Which is why you do what you do, say what you say, and cannot figure out why you keep coming up empty-handed.


I am only trying to explain that there is a REASON for the 100:1 (at best) ratio of men to women on collarspace (and elsewhere) looking for sensual gratification.

This isn't about "me", despite your desperate attempts to make it so.
Everything I note happens everywhere in the world, and has happened countless times in the past, and will happen until the end of time.

< Message edited by crumpets -- 8/30/2015 5:42:58 AM >

(in reply to HoneyBears)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 8:41:00 AM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		These differences arent just seen in sex. To understand why men more actively seek sex you have to look at behavior as a whole. This goes beyond 'slut' or 'whore'

Look at your average teenage boy.... they are competitive, take risks, and are dangerous and self destructive. They will break a leg jumping off a roof and be commended for it. They are seen as brave and strong for taking that risk... a man isnt likely to have them institutionalized for "being a danger to themselves and others"

Look at a teenage girl and we already see how society has had an opposite effect. A girl is just as likely to be self destructive but they hide it. They learn to keep things to themselves and not share when they "test ground" and do dangerous things. Boys like dirtbikes and skateboards, girls cutting and eating disorders. And this is because if a girl does something to test the water she is seen as dangerous where a boy is seen as "just being a boy"

Seeking sex is an extension of these behaviors. If a girl seeks sex it is seen as acting out, as being rebellious, as trying to harm yourself. A boy.... bravo

Woman have too much to fear to actively seek sex or and behavior that society would consider dangerous for them. Boys it is considered part of the learning experience, girls are not given the opportunity to learn. If you test the water you are pregnant, have herpes, or thrown in an institution and chemically labotomized for being a"nympho"

Whether we like it or not there are separate stigmas attached to the sexes that alter the way we seek things we want. A man is commended for his bravery in approaching women directly where a woman is looked down on if she uses direct methods rather than subversive ones... it doesn't mean women arent seeking, it means they do it differently.... they hide it.

There are a lot of beneficial reasons for this as well, because our bodies are different we are at greater risk. Social pressure to always appear "together" and "appropriate" come along because of that greater risk. When a woman gets pregnant it's not just that she has another life she's responsible for. She gives up herself. Quite literally, her dna changes. She shares stem cells wuth the baby and her brain alters to include the fathers dna. She BECOMES another person. Getting pregnant is the genetic equivalent of saying "I dont want to be me anymore, I want to be you". And pregnancy isnt the only risk, birth control prevents it but causes mood swings and unstable behavior you also have to learn to hide or be at risk, mine make ovulation and menstation incredibly painful(id rather have my toenails ripped out twice a month). AND despite men being having more sex in general women are at a much greater risk from sti's. Our genitals are a membrane, not skin. Viruses that are stopped by skin on the penis find a vagina paradise. Not only that but women are a lot more likely to show symptoms which only perpetuates the trend that men are a lot less likely to get tested, they act as carriers... never showing signs but infecting everyone around them. Things that men often dont know they have can kill women.

Is a sexual tryst with a stranger who has a greater probability of killing you than getting you off worth it? Hell no. It has absolutely nothing to do with numbers or desire at that point and a lot to do with risk vs. reward.

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 11:44:32 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

I don't think the ratio is anywhere near 4:1, but that's what others think.
I think, at best, it's 100:1 (as did a few others), and at worst, it's Ashley-Madison millions to one (as outlined in the prior articles).



Actually I don't think that whatever the ratio is is an issue. I think it's the men themselves.

I've met 3 men thought here for long term relationships, and about 6 for shorter term relationships, and about 40 where things didn't go past a first meet (sometimes intentionally so because the meet was scheduled in friendship).

The 3 I've been in long term relationships with, have also all met several women through here.

Of the 6 I've had short term relationships with, 4 have met several women through here, 1 only met me, and 1 I have no data on.

Of the 40 of so I met only 1 time, I mostly have no data... but for the ones where I do have data about 10 of them. I know they have all met several women through here as well.

But wait a minute... that doesn't make sense... if the ratio is 4:1, or 10:1, oo 100:1... then you would think that a significant portion of the men I've met would have only met me.
That's not the case. Of the ones I've got data on about 95% have been very successful meeting women through here, that doesn't jive with the fact that the odds would not be in their favor.

Yet on the other side you've got thousands of men complaining that meeting a women through here is impossible. And you know what... when looking at their profiles I can see why.

I think that it's a matter that for some portion of CM users the ratio is 10000:0... because there are NO women out there interested in them.
However, for another portion of CM users the ration seems to be much closer to 1:1... though maybe not exactly that close.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 12:02:04 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		Yes, this is why I say it's the men, not the ratio. When I limit the profiles that come up by distance, desired age range, orientation, the number of profiles that appear is not at all huge. And I have messaged none of them, specifically because of what I've read in their profiles, user names, or their messages to me. The issue is the men themselves, not that there are too many to pick from.

As long as women prefer to be with no one than with a man as psychologically and socially impaired as the vast majority of men on the profile side, then the ratio has no impact at all. The hope is for the few gems in that multitude.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 2:19:51 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
These differences arent just seen in sex.

No doubt about it.
I get all excited when I go into Harbor Freight, while women might arouse the same excitement at a jewelry store (which bores me to tears).
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
To understand why men more actively seek sex you have to look at behavior as a whole. This goes beyond 'slut' or 'whore'

To be sure, the whole "motive" value hinging on the characterization of slut versus whore is vastly oversimplified (as all generalizations are).
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Look at your average teenage boy.... they are competitive, take risks, and are dangerous and self destructive. They will break a leg jumping off a roof and be commended for it. They are seen as brave and strong for taking that risk...

Agreed.
One parent once told me "To have a boy is to risk losing him", since boys do things all the time that can get them killed.

I'm actually surprised I survived my own childhood. We used to try to capture rattlers bare handed. We'd go into ANY cave we found (some of which took hours to find our way back out). We'd ride our bikes as fast as we could and then jump off them to see how far we could land after we purposefully headed straight into a pile of sand. We'd climb cliffs without rope. We'd jump off the roofs of sheds. Lord knows how many streams we explored simply by throwing an inner tube into them and floating down (waterfalls and all). When we were old enough to drive, every single one of us had a motorcycle accident or two. etc.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Look at a teenage girl and we already see how society has had an opposite effect.

I was at the library yesterday, and the girls' coach was a couple whose wife kept fawning to the grade-school girls over how cute the girls were dressed. I asked what was going on, and the male half of the coaching team said this was a girls' track team where they were trying to build up the confidence of the girls. I almost fell backward, having just seen his wife tell a group of girls how pretty they were. Sheesh.

He didn't even understand what I was trying to tell him. It's shocking how stupid people are. We treat girls totally differently than boys from the day they're born, and, yet, we find time to disparage that they don't have the confidence that the boys have.

Worse yet, we try to "fix" it like this couple did, right in front of my face.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Seeking sex is an extension of these behaviors.
If a girl seeks sex it is seen as acting out, as being rebellious, as trying to harm yourself. A boy.... bravo

We certainly have a double standard when it comes to girls and boys doing what girls and boys naturally do.
It's the Puritan in us, I think.
The Scarlet Letter said it all.
Only the female was punished; not the male.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Boys it is considered part of the learning experience,

Yup. In fact, it's often said to be the transition of when a boy becomes a man.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
girls are not given the opportunity to learn. If you test the water you are pregnant, have herpes, or thrown in an institution and chemically labotomized for being a"nympho"

Agreed.
Although, I haven't seen all these nympho's running amok, I can't disagree with the concept you portray.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
there are separate stigmas attached to the sexes that alter the way we seek things we want.

Again, I can't disagree one bit.
We treat boys totally differently than girls (witness the Scarlet Letter again).
Add testosterone to the mix on one side, and the value of a girl's body to others on the other side, and you have two totally different formulas for sexual activity and behavior.

That's why I was shocked that anyone could equate men's and women's behavior as being egalitarian.
Their behavior is so different that we may as well be different species.
Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't delving any deeper than their per-concieved Utopian politically correct yet wholly incorrect notions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
A man is commended for his bravery in approaching women directly where a woman is looked down on if she uses direct methods rather than subversive ones...

Yup. I remember being shocked that a girl, bigger than I was, asked me out on Sadie Hawkin's day way back when.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
it doesn't mean women arent seeking, it means they do it differently.... they hide it.

This is the only statement you made, so far, that I'd have to see a better argument for.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
our bodies are different we are at greater risk.

Yup.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Social pressure

Yup.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
When a woman gets pregnant ... She gives up herself.

Yup. The guy often skips town. Rarely does the woman abandon the babies.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
women are at a much greater risk from sti's.

Sad fact. But true. Disease is a receiver's nightmare.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Our genitals are a membrane, not skin.

Very pretty membrane, but nonetheless, I don't disagree that you have far more chances of getting diseases than we do, especially if we're circumcised.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Viruses that are stopped by skin on the penis find a vagina paradise.

More than just viruses. Bacteria and Fungi too!
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Is a sexual tryst with a stranger who has a greater probability of killing you than getting you off worth it? Hell no. It has absolutely nothing to do with numbers or desire at that point and a lot to do with risk vs. reward.

We agree on every point you made (but one needs a bit more detail).
As for the risk, yup.

The men don't care about 1,000 to 1 risks. They take 'em anyway.
The women do care. In general, they don't NEED to take a risk, and they don't WANT to take that risk.

I can't disagree with anything you say. You speak words of wisdom and understanding.

(in reply to DerangedUnit)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 2:41:39 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Actually I don't think that whatever the ratio is is an issue. I think it's the men themselves.

I see where you're going with this, and again, I can't disagree.

Bearing in mind that I have created every kind of profile I can think of, on a variety of sites, I have a pretty clear idea of the grade-school eloquence of the typical "wanna fuck" missive the ladies get on a daily basis.

If I actually had saved all the penis shots I've gotten unsolicited as an 18-year-old-babe, I could publish an entire treatise on the subject. But, will spare us all the indignity of coupling the male cock shot with the horrifically canned puerile banter that accompanied same.
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I've met 3 men thought here for long term relationships, and about 6 for shorter term relationships, and about 40 where things didn't go past a first meet (sometimes intentionally so because the meet was scheduled in friendship).

I've met about a half dozen since this profile was started. Two went rather well. I have no idea what happened to the others.
If the odds were truly 1,000 to 1, that wouldn't have happened.
So, we have to qualify those odds since they're based PURELY on NUMBERS of profiles (and not on quality of profiles).
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
The 3 I've been in long term relationships with, have also all met several women through here.

Yup. Now we're in the next level of detail.
There are men who make profiles.
And there are men who make good profiles.

I'm not sure if "my" profile is considered good or bad - but I'd assume I'm average (you can take a look and let me know privately or publicly if you like).

Point is, if I'm average, then the average guy should get about a half-dozen face-to-face meets in about a year or two (I don't remember when I signed up).

The average woman would have the opportunity for far more, but I don't have any clue HOW MANY she would actually meet.
Do you consider your number of actual meetings about average?
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Of the 6 I've had short term relationships with, 4 have met several women through here, 1 only met me, and 1 I have no data on.

You're doing far better, so to speak, than I am, which, makes sense, after all.
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Of the 40 of so I met only 1 time,

I doubt very many men here will actually MEET 40 women in a couple of years' time.
Maybe I'm wrong, but, I would think the average is closer to a half dozen.
(I'm sure some young stud is going to chime in that he's met 100 women and they all loved him - but - I'm just trying to be realistic here.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
But wait a minute... that doesn't make sense... if the ratio is 4:1, or 10:1, oo 100:1... then you would think that a significant portion of the men I've met would have only met me.

I see where you're going with this, and I don't disagree.
SOME MEN will NEVER meet anyone.
Those are the ones, most likely, who bitch and whine about the lack of females here (remember, on Ashley Madison, they PAID to have an affair, yet, the ratio of active men to women was MILLIONS to none!).

At least here, I can vouch for a few women being real, and I'm sure many more of you can vouch for yourselves being of real warm flesh and blood!
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Of the ones I've got data on about 95% have been very successful meeting women through here, that doesn't jive with the fact that the odds would not be in their favor.

I think you're on to an obvious but often-missed truth.
There are a LOT of male profiles here which will NEVER gat any attention whatsoever from the females.
Why?
The profile speaks for itself!
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Yet on the other side you've got thousands of men complaining that meeting a women through here is impossible. And you know what... when looking at their profiles I can see why.

We agree.
How many threads have been about the lack of women here?
Tons.
They take many forms of course (complaints about findommes, complaints about fakes, complaints about scams, complaints about people not responding to mails, etc.); but they're all just thinly disguised whines that a guy can't get a gal simply by throwing together a few sentences and cropping a few pictures off the net (or, heaven forbid, he snaps a picture of his gorgeous precious unique cock!).
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I think that it's a matter that for some portion of CM users the ratio is 10000:0... because there are NO women out there interested in them.

I think you've made a convincing argument that there is a kink in the demand curve!
(Remember "kinked demand curves" from college Economics' days?)
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
However, for another portion of CM users the ration seems to be much closer to 1:1... though maybe not exactly that close.

I think you're on to the truth.
The RATIO of men to women, taken in toto, is horridly stacked against the men, with the numbers approaching 1,000 to 1.
However, the ratio of SUCCESSFUL men to women, is on a portion of the curve that has a far better ratio, perhaps even approaching single or double digits.

All well argued, and hard not to agree with!

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 2:58:58 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
Yes, this is why I say it's the men, not the ratio.

I'm in agreement.
It wasn't the conclusion that this thread started with (whoever it was that started it, of course, can chime in)
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
When I limit the profiles that come up by distance, desired age range, orientation, the number of profiles that appear is not at all huge.

This is a fantastic point.
The interesting thing is that when I put realistic filters into "my" search, I get only about two collarspace pages (something like 20 to 25 per page so that's about 40 to 50?) women even remotely fitting what I seek.

Following your argument, if "my" chances were really 1,000 to 1, then out of 40 to 50 potential ladies, I'd basically meet zero of them face to face. Even at 100:1 (i.e., 1%), I'd only meet about 0.4 to 0.5 females (let's call that one female). Yet, I've actually met at least a half dozen as a direct result of Collarspace (I'm not counting other social avenues such as Fetlife and Munches and The South Bay Spot, etc.).

So, my ratio of real-face-to-face meets is something like 40 or 50 to 6, which is about 12% to 15%.
But I was NEVER looking at INDIVIDUAL numbers; I was always looking at the AGGREGATE.

If I search for males similar to who I am in that same search, the men will outnumber the women, probably from 100 to 1,000 to one.
So, I do think you're all giving me a deeper understanding of the numerical dynamics here, which is that there is a kinked curve that depends on what we might want to describe as the quality of the appeal to women for the male profile.

The clear indication I'm getting from you is that there is a huge number of male profiles that don't appeal in the least to the average lady here, while there is a much smaller subset that does appeal to the ladies, and that the feminine demand for those two types of male profiles is correspondingly skewed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
And I have messaged none of them, specifically because of what I've read in their profiles, user names, or their messages to me. The issue is the men themselves, not that there are too many to pick from.

This all makes tons of sense.
There are some profiles you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
If a male is in one of those profiles, and if all the women won't have anything to do with him, it would seem, to him, that the ratios are a million to one (and, in effect, those are (realistically) his chances).
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
As long as women prefer to be with no one than with a man as psychologically and socially impaired as the vast majority of men on the profile side, then the ratio has no impact at all. The hope is for the few gems in that multitude.


This is a very good point, and it should give the men cause to strive to be better at delivering, for women, that which the women desire, and not that which THEY desire.

< Message edited by crumpets -- 8/30/2015 3:06:25 PM >

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 7:33:23 PM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		This is something that has less direct examples so I'll try to explain(I have a very non linear method of thinking and may pull from seemingly unrelated areas, if it gets confusing, apologies.)

I was recently told by someone I met at the library who kidnapped me that "fighting and being mean means you want it" when you are given a compliment you are supposed to say "oh who me, no*blush*"...the old adage "the less you show the more attractive you are". I used to have the job of "fetching girls" for the guys at parties the ones who were eager were always the ones who would try to claim rape later, shy, unsure.... they would ask to move in. An outspoken girl is never synonymous with a "good girl". if you go up to a guy and say youre horny he'll think you're crazy. I cum 10-15 times a day but quit if I have to ask to. Being horny is considered a weakness, if a girl is horny it means she is so controlled by the thought of cock she lost her mind. Why a lot of dommes think having sex with male subs makes you lose control. Men are expected to "pick up on cues" to know when a woman is flirting but women expect men to just tell them(or just do it). Women use excuses as reasons to have sex "hey this is the first time we've had the house to ourselves in a while" "I dont feel like you love me anymore" "do I look fat in this?" Or to not have sex "I have a headache" "im on my period". Courting rituals like "the three date rule" exist to tell women when it is socially acceptable for them to fuck someone. if a guy doesn't try by the third it means he doesn't want to... she isnt supposed to act until he "decides" being chosen is supposed to make you feel good even if it's someone you have no interest in. Even if a woman is dressed like a slut she will pretend it was for her even though she knows the reaction.

Hmmm I dont know if that was enough... or too much but my phone is almost dead, I walked outside to get the landlord to flip the switch on the power(damn microwave always knocks out my power) was outside for about 2 seconds before two guys come out of their apartments and try to "help" me.

< Message edited by DerangedUnit -- 8/30/2015 7:43:06 PM >

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 9:11:17 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Men are expected to "pick up on cues" to know when a woman is flirting ...Courting rituals like "the three date rule" exist to tell women when it is socially acceptable for them to fuck someone. if a guy doesn't try by the third it means he doesn't want to..

When I was younger, high school days mostly, and becoming aware of the opposite sex in a way that hadn't occurred to me prior, I used to talk with my friends in the privacy of the treehouses we all had about how girls made no sense.

It wasn't until college that I actually PERSISTED past the first "no" stage, knowing that she didn't really mean it. I realized, about midway through college, when I became more sure of myself, that "no" was just a way of saying "please keep trying". Then I realized there was the "please" stage, which was less than a no but which you only arrived at by violating the no stage.

And then there was the "don't" stage, which occurred only after you further violated the "please" stage, and only after you continually and repeatedly backed down momentarily only to arise anew in persistence did you get to the final "stop" stage, when, you realized that the sum total of her ministrations meant, "No, please don't stop".

Even then, she almost always needed to rely upon the excuse of "alcohol" (which was our drug of choice in those days), so, I learned early on that the more drinks I got her, the better she felt about herself afterward. The first time I realized this was only after NOT GIVING UP upon the first three refusals, and ending up having a girlfriend for the rest of college (who said afterward she just didn't want to seem easy to get).

Sheesh.

That these observations fly in the face of logic was to only begin to scratch the surface of attempting to understand the hugely illogical thoughts and behaviors of women.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
was outside for about 2 seconds before two guys come out of their apartments and try to "help" me.

I was once on Fire Island, and, while waiting for my girlfriend to use the bathroom I was constantly hit up by annoying men, like flies buzzing around your face, some of whom were simply lingering too close obviously on purpose, one of whom wouldn't take no for an answer until I visibly got angry, and that's when I think I first realized what it's like, sometimes, to 'be a girl' in a world of men.

(in reply to DerangedUnit)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 10:39:05 PM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		Men and women are both irrational in their own way... then there are people like me who barely count as human :P women are defensive about things pertaining to their stability.... men, their ego. Dont tell a woman shes crazy or a man hes small and even being bisexual becomes doable.

One of the reasons my owner likes me so much is because he was really good at "getting" women... no booze needed, he was like a fly trap for crazy... still is, he can predict responces like nothing though he always says "I have absolutely no clue what im doing" with a laugh(down playing everything is part of it) he couldnt predict my actions. He kept bracing for a stab while I go about my business. I think everyone assumes their own actions are rational.... ive only been called the most rational person someone knows by the least rational people I know. But ive always had a strong disconnect from other women in one aspect. I dont form emotional attachments to my actions. I dont hear a sentence from someone I identify with and assume they feel what I feel. I think that is the disconnect in understanding between the sexes. Men want actions to have a set reaction, women want emotions to have a set emotion.

The really crazy people tend to make more sense to me than "normal" people. There are so many base behaviors that I cant make heads or tales of.... and I can be speaking what I assume is plain english and people will look at me like im speaking in tongues. cant understand everything and everybidy shouldnt be understood, adds to the excitement to be surprised every once in a while. (Since the first paragraph ive been trying to think of a time ive ever made someone upset on accident...in person anyways... and.... oh no wait thought of it now, but yeah, the only time ive ever accidentally made someone upset I still have no clue what they were upset over other than possibly that there was nothing to be upset over)

Irrational behavior by men example: forming political opinions on movies you read about without seeing them... because you cant see them because they are against your politics. Or being unwilling to try new food because you've never tried it.

And I can guess most likely thought process of your gf in those situations but you wouldn't want to hear it ;) which is why women behave "illogically" they are usually trying to prevent hurting people to some degree, they hold it in until you piss them off enough to get a torrent. I still have the scars on my hand from when one of my charges lit her house on fire... these things happen.

< Message edited by DerangedUnit -- 8/30/2015 10:47:09 PM >

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/30/2015 11:47:12 PM   
dreamlady


Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

I'm not sure if "my" profile is considered good or bad - but I'd assume I'm average (you can take a look and let me know privately or publicly if you like).

Point is, if I'm average, then the average guy should get about a half-dozen face-to-face meets in about a year or two (I don't remember when I signed up).


Since you put forth an open invitation, I took a peek. Another Dominant woman may have an entirely different reaction, depending on what she's looking for in a sub.

I am not, however, seeking a service-oriented sub. These are purely subjective comments off the top of my head.

Your profile is too long and too wordy. I didn't even bother to read your journal entries as a result.
I get the feeling that you are towing the party line, that you are expressing what you think a Domme would want to hear.
It's not the typical do-me sub broken record, but it plays like a broken record all the same.
Sorry, but I would lump you in the cookie-cutter male sub who has a little bit of experience category, the category of subs with pre-conceived notions (stereotypes) about Dominants and what makes us tick, that I can do without.

Then upon reading your posts here, I would find your profile text suspect. Highly suspect, as in "has all kinds of hidden agenda = sneaky little fucker" suspect.
This isn't to say that you haven't shown courtesy to the posters on this thread.
But there is a passive-aggressive argumentativeness that does and would rub me the wrong way and get on my nerves.

Back to average. Average to me, translates into mediocre. I abhor mediocrity almost as much as I am repelled by an untrustworthy-seeming (wannabe) sub.
My baseline is friendship. If you (plural) aren't the type of person I would even want as my friend, someone I could count on and express myself freely with in inviolable confidence, then you (plural) have zero chance of making it any further with me.
There will never be a face-to-face meeting. Not ever.
To that end, I can't say that I even meet as many as a half dozen men in one year, although there was that one year when I had Domme fever and consented to meet over a dozen. A very, very exceptional year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit

... women are defensive about things pertaining to their stability.... men, their ego. Dont tell a woman shes crazy or a man hes small and even being bisexual becomes doable.

I think that is the disconnect in understanding between the sexes. Men want actions to have a set reaction, women want emotions to have a set emotion.
---

QFT! Our lexicon of emotional responses is not unfathomable. We're just better at predicting predictability than they are. (We have that extra "intuition" gene on one leg of our X chromosomes that they don't have on their "Y" one. )

DreamLady

Edit - typo

< Message edited by dreamlady -- 8/30/2015 11:54:24 PM >

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/31/2015 6:20:46 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

I'm not sure if "my" profile is considered good or bad - but I'd assume I'm average (you can take a look and let me know privately or publicly if you like).

Point is, if I'm average, then the average guy should get about a half-dozen face-to-face meets in about a year or two (I don't remember when I signed up).



As dreamlady said, since you asked...

Looking at your profile, the first thing is the animals greeting each other. That squicks me out.

Your profile wording is full of generic mumbo-jumbo with emphasis on the word "lady," without any definition of what that means to you. Female? A certain set of manners or behaviors?

In fact, your entire profile speaks to me of a guy who has decided what a real "lady" or dominant woman is, and you are looking to plug someone into that role.

If they do not fit that role (by extension), you will not behave as advertised, and that will not be on you. That will be on them, for not being the "right" avatar of fem-domliness.

For example:

quote:

I realize you do not need me. I need you.


So, your lady may not need you. That turns me off right there, and I'm guessing any lifestyle dominant will feel a bit queasy. It takes away the option for us to show our own weaknesses and humanity to our submissive partner.

That, plus your basic misogyny, passive-aggressiveness, and determination to argue with women who are explaining to you something that could help you understand the women you are hoping to serve (on the forums) would turn me off of you in no time. But then, perhaps the woman you are trying to serve does not have sexual needs like many women do... since she will not need you. You will simply serve and beg and hope and plead for whatever scraps she is willing to dish out.

You see how you shape your own reality?

Based on your profile alone, I would not meet you. Not only as/for myself, a woman open to many relationship possibilities, but also as a woman who meets many people (sometimes 3-6 per month from here and other places), and helps guide them to the right groups and women in my area for learning and social opportunities.

< Message edited by NookieNotes -- 8/31/2015 6:22:00 AM >

_____________________________

Nookie
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(in reply to dreamlady)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/31/2015 7:54:44 AM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

QFT! Our lexicon of emotional responses is not unfathomable. We're just better at predicting predictability than they are. (We have that extra "intuition" gene on one leg of our X chromosomes that they don't have on their "Y" one. )


For some reason I pressed reply to dreamlady but it didn't show up as that hmmm

(Will google what qft means after typing this) oh I dont doubt it, I have an incredibly stable emotional state(grow up around people like my family and peace and quite where people arent trying to kill you is a luxury) but my two favorite relationships were both with people who had an ex that stabbed them, both of them think they were crazy, I know they damn well deserved it. ;) reactionslike that make sense. But they both also had ex wives who were murdered by drug dealers. Womens tendency to lash out at others with self destructive behavior is something I don't see the reasoning behind. Ive known a lot of women that think that trying to destroy their own life is the way to punish someone else. Like if they break enough the guy will realize he needs to stop his behavior... they dont see their behavior as the cause they just see a woman running around trying to get herself killed.

That's not how the chromosomes work :P they have one x, pretty much like one of our x's... we have two because mutations and errors tend to creep up quite often in something constantly being rewritten(epigenetic) as well as the errors in the baseline.... with women basically someone went back and spellchecked(one of the most common errors seen in men because they only have one x is colorblindness, for a man to be colorblind he just has to have one genetic fuck up, a woman would have to have that same misprint in both places)

the y is basically useless lol the ONLY thing it does is start the process to making them male, during pregnacy it wakes decides "oooh im supposed to start growing a penis" its in charge if male hormones and the like... but x is what makes up the rest of us.

I wouldn't go so far as to say women are better prediction analyzers since im pretty sure it was men who came up with all the math. Games like chess and blackjack are pretty much probability matrices for fun. But there in lies the disconnect. Men like to establish rules for predictability(if I do this, this or this is the result) they want to know. Women base their predictions off of the past(hes done this ten times before so he'll do it again). Men practically self destruct when something doesn't behave the way they expect it to(or cant get the response they wanted I.e. he bought a new boat and eexpected you to be excited but you were worried about the cost so he storms off and disappears for days), women tend to be apprehensive but more fascinated by the change. They will sit back and watch, and wait for him to slip up but if he doesn't then they tend to be happy not questioning the meaning of existence because of the change.

< Message edited by DerangedUnit -- 8/31/2015 7:57:13 AM >

(in reply to NookieNotes)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/31/2015 9:51:05 AM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Men and women are both irrational in their own way...

I'm gaining a deeper understanding of the dynamics, which is, fundamentally, that it's not a SIMPLE demand curve. The curve has kinks in it, which skews our perspective, depending on where we sit relative to the kinks (where the slope is different).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
women are defensive about things pertaining to their stability.... men, their ego. Dont tell a woman shes crazy or a man hes small and even being bisexual becomes doable.

I have never been told I was small, but, every man has different sized antlers when it comes to sizing up to other men. We're pretty used to competition. It's not like we're the only guy on the dance floor, so, I would think men are pretty used to having their egos bruised (I am, at least). It's no big thing, at least to me. But, I'm not narcissistic, so, personality may play a role in my perception that men can handle anything that affronts their ego.

As for women being defensive about things pertaining to their stability, I'm not sure if you mean their "mental" stability or their "personal" (i.e., relationship) stability. I will read on, with interest, as I'm unaware of this male:female distinction you speak of...
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
he always says "I have absolutely no clue what im doing" with a laugh(down playing everything is part of it)

Sounds like he's a pretty confident individual. I think women go for that... um, at least it says so in most of the advice to men on how to get a lady friend.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
I think everyone assumes their own actions are rational....

This must be quite true.

Even ax murderers have some reason for hacking away at that guy with the blue uniform. Or terrorists. Or hackers of Ashley Madison. Or Snowden. Or even Charles Manson.

They all have a "logical" reason justifying their actions, I guess, which makes sense, TO THEM.

So, what you're saying is that what seems wholly illogical (to me) about women's behavior, is actually logical, to the women, given the conditions they're exposed to. I believe that.

The corollary is likely also true. There's some logical reason why cock shots prevail in profiles here. And, why men will approach women with the "wanna fuck" eloquence of a boar, in droves, even on profiles that explicitly advise "I'm here only for the forums; don't contact me". (Ask me how I know.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
ive only been called the most rational person someone knows by the least rational people I know.

???
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Men want actions to have a set reaction, women want emotions to have a set emotion.

That statement deserves a thread on its own!
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
The really crazy people tend to make more sense to me than "normal" people.

I think I'm slowly getting what you're intimating, which is, somewhat paraphrased, that people have reasons for their behavioral actions, whether or not we men (or women) understand those reasons.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnitOr being unwilling to try new food because you've never tried it.

Well, I can see being unwilling to taste, um, scat, for example, without having any real idea of what it actually tastes like! :)
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
And I can guess most likely thought process of your gf in those situations but you wouldn't want to hear it ;)

We went out for years afterward, until we parted ways when I moved after graduating from college and going to graduate school (she was two years my junior). So, I pretty much knew that she had liked me from the start, as I did her.

We can assume she told me the truth, during that time, which was that she was just playing hard to get, and that she wanted more and more alcohol as the excuse she needed (I met her on the first day of school, where she was a freshman with, as it turned out, a boyfriend back at home, whom she broke up with soon thereafter - and who came after me - which is a different story - as if I was the home breaker).

The funny thing is that she never played hard to get with me ever after, and, we didn't drink all that much alcohol (except at parties) either. So, we were BOTH playing games that people play, during the "courtship" ritual (albeit, this was perhaps only a few hours from start to finish - but hey - I guess that's how we college kids did things before the advent of cellphones and emoticons).
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
which is why women behave "illogically" they are usually trying to prevent hurting people to some degree,

You make a great point, which is that everyone is behaving logically for what their thought processes and experiences are.
Women and men.
I only think women act illogically because I'm not a woman and I'm not exposed to what they're exposed to.
(Except in my fake profiles, which are designed to learn that perspective!) ... :)
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
I still have the scars on my hand from when one of my charges lit her house on fire... these things happen.

Your stories are interesting cliff hangers!

(in reply to DerangedUnit)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/31/2015 9:56:05 AM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:



with women basically someone went back and spellchecked



You just kill me! Please write a blog or an autobiography. I'd read/subscribe to it

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to DerangedUnit)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/31/2015 10:15:57 AM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		I do actually... www.putty.space currently just redirects to duhduhduhda here. Since ive been using this site as my journal forever.... I lose paper, twitter doesnt let you ramble... facebook is too stalkery. Cm is just right, enough creepy people that stories about my life dont cause the soccee moms to lock their doors. Granted I basically just keep it because I hate the question "how are you doing" so before friends get back in touch with me they fill themselves back in on however much they can handle of the mundane, the crazy, and the wtf moments that make up my life before trying to talk to me.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/31/2015 10:30:42 AM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
I still have the scars on my hand from when one of my charges lit her house on fire... these things happen.

Your stories are interesting cliff hangers!


Im trying not to push the "people seem to generally be understanding what im saying" vibe.... this is a rare occurrence, I dont want to disturb the wildlife ;)

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Male:Female ratio on collarspace - 8/31/2015 10:34:08 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

I don't think the ratio is anywhere near 4:1, but that's what others think.
I think, at best, it's 100:1 (as did a few others), and at worst, it's Ashley-Madison millions to one (as outlined in the prior articles).



Actually I don't think that whatever the ratio is is an issue. I think it's the men themselves.

I've met 3 men thought here for long term relationships, and about 6 for shorter term relationships, and about 40 where things didn't go past a first meet (sometimes intentionally so because the meet was scheduled in friendship).

The 3 I've been in long term relationships with, have also all met several women through here.

Of the 6 I've had short term relationships with, 4 have met several women through here, 1 only met me, and 1 I have no data on.

Of the 40 of so I met only 1 time, I mostly have no data... but for the ones where I do have data about 10 of them. I know they have all met several women through here as well.

But wait a minute... that doesn't make sense... if the ratio is 4:1, or 10:1, oo 100:1... then you would think that a significant portion of the men I've met would have only met me.
That's not the case. Of the ones I've got data on about 95% have been very successful meeting women through here, that doesn't jive with the fact that the odds would not be in their favor.

Yet on the other side you've got thousands of men complaining that meeting a women through here is impossible. And you know what... when looking at their profiles I can see why.

I think that it's a matter that for some portion of CM users the ratio is 10000:0... because there are NO women out there interested in them.
However, for another portion of CM users the ration seems to be much closer to 1:1... though maybe not exactly that close.


Bar-person! I shall have a pint of this, please.


_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 160
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