RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US?

RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 8:32:07 AM)
Again... no statistics and this is just my personal opinion and observations... I find language, and this includes dialects, is more of a divider than skin color. We , I believe, as humans like those that are like us. It is bad enough when we can't communicate so we can find what we have in common but it is just as bad when our dialects mark us as socially different. My views i know often seem racist but i believe they are closer to the truth of the average American. When I meet a person of a different ethnicity I am more likely to be comfortable with them if they talk like me... in fact I don't even see their looks or color if they do... they are just like me. Having an official language would not solve all our problems but it would make it easier for us to accept others... if we could just talk to them... to me it is important. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:10:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I am learning alot of interesting things in this election. Thanks to Jeb and his fluent Spanish. You got these debates about IF he should be posting ads in Spanish, since US is an English speaking country. And then you got the Libs saying that English is neither the National Language nor Official language nor First Language in US. I was like, "What????" It's not??? Why not?" And then some how race issue gets into the mix again, due to English being a white man's language. What do people here think of this? And for me, this is quite confusing. In our country, I guess it was easier. I mean, we have all the races that are non-English speakers. So to make sure all the different races have one unified language for effective communication with each other. English was made the official first language that everyone has to be able to speak. It just make sense for communication purposes. Why would Libs oppose to English being officially set as the official default language of US? I also have mix thoughts about if Politicians should speak in any other language on top of their own main language in political speeches. In my country, it's normal for let's say, a chinese person running for office will learn Malay, Tamil and even the dialects of the different indigenous Chinese folks and perform political speeches in them. Over here, it endears them to the different race of people that they were humble enough to master all the languages. It was also essential as there are literally a portion of the population of these races, which they feel is significant enough, even the Chinese, that don't understand English. But I guess in the US, I assume everyone who grows up in the US must understand English. Only immigrants may have issues. So why bother speaking in any other languages? I feel it becomes favourtism. I think Jeb speeches in Spanish is badly received is because it's favourtism to Hispanic people. It's really not a situation where there is genuine language diversity in the US. I can't even think of, besides Spanish, which would be the third most spoken language over there? French? Bush screwed up. The U S has never seen fit to have an official language. A National language is to vauge, does it mean primary or official. He is wrong, English is the first language of the U S. I say this because all official documents, until very recently were in English. When the nation was founded English was virtually universal. Today in spite of efforts to treat Spansih as equal to English, English is still, by a hugh margine, the majority language.

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:16:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 All the examples above, is simply English, but different forms of English. It's like our Mandarin is different from China Mandarin in accent and the way we phrase things, but the basics are there and we still understand each other. I am sure most of you understand each other and can speak in a manner where you can communicate sufficiently with each other in the English that you know, that common English that is sufficiently understandable. Communication is extremely important to bring people together! I really roll my eyes when I see some Libs even defend Hispanic rights to refuse to learn English while wanting to permanently live in America. That's just ridiculous! If I want to live in Japan, I'm gonna learn Japanese. If I live in Germany, I'm gonna learn German. It doesn't take away from my language or my culture, it just makes me multi-lingual. While I have difficulty understanding some British accents, like for example Welsh People, really hard to understand, and they speak like English is their second language, I mean I always mistake them as Dutch people who's first language is Dutch and speaking English with a heavy dutch accent, but that's just my impression of their accent. But I've never heard an American accent that was difficult to understand, even the thickest southern kind. Your problem is that you are looking through the prisim of logic and reason, not political gain. Libs pander to minorities even and the price of the Balkanization of America.

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:17:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 ...But I've never heard an American accent that was difficult to understand, even the thickest southern kind. I found it very difficult to understand an awful lot of Americans when I lived there. The way they pronounced words often had me confused. For instance, I couldn't distinguish between 'cup' and 'cop' unless I heard the context. And the thick southern drawl just made me cringe because I barely understood a word that was being said. But there again, trying to understand a Scot or Geordie in full flow is just as bad [:D] Cockney

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:19:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Part of the explanation for all this is that English does have dialects and is in denial about it. No one ever calls them that but for all practical purposes (say) Geordie American or Scots English are not standard English but regional dialects of English. Other major languages recognise that they have dialects. For example, French German Chinese and Italian all recognise (even celebrate) their regional dialects but for some reason English speakers decline to acknowledge that English has dialects. If we as English speakers acknowledged that English had dialects, this discussion would be superfluous. We English certainly acknowledge that there are dialects and some of them are diabolical. The problem is that other English-speaking people don't. Yes we do.

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:27:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Again... no statistics and this is just my personal opinion and observations... I find language, and this includes dialects, is more of a divider than skin color. We , I believe, as humans like those that are like us. It is bad enough when we can't communicate so we can find what we have in common but it is just as bad when our dialects mark us as socially different. My views i know often seem racist but i believe they are closer to the truth of the average American. When I meet a person of a different ethnicity I am more likely to be comfortable with them if they talk like me... in fact I don't even see their looks or color if they do... they are just like me. Having an official language would not solve all our problems but it would make it easier for us to accept others... if we could just talk to them... to me it is important. Butch Also language can be a great unifying force. As a nation of immigrants we do not have a long common history, or customs. Since we are such a large and geographically diverse nation we do not have a unifying geogrphy. English is one of the strongest unifying forces in our nation. It and the unifying principals (the other primary unifying force) are both under attack.

mnottertail -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:32:08 AM)
What is unifying about a language? We both understand what the word asshole means? Other than that, those of us who speak English have many divisions here. It is a false premise.

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:45:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I was like, "What????" It's not??? Why not?" I understand all your points and even more. Holding a 'fair and above' understanding of the English language does allow for many more opportunities then one would have speaking their native tongue. They could gain employment, run for public office, meet new people, make business connections, communicate information during an emergency. These are all good things. However, making it the official language of the United States would be unconstitutional. The first amendment's 'freedom of speech' would prohibit it. In fact any law created to officiate the language would get struck down in the courts. The only way to make it an official language is as an amendment. Take a guess how tough of a concept that is to accomplish.... But allow me to play Devil's Advocate here.... If we can make English the official language, could we not then make Spanish the official language? As it is the next most commonly spoken language in the nation. The population of people whom speak both languages is growing, yet, those speaking & enjoying the Spanish language are growing faster. There are many Americans whom either do not speak English or very little of it. Would they like the idea that Spanish was the official language in the United States? No of course not. If that is not 'OK', to make Spanish the official language, then, by logic, English can not be the official language within the Untied States either! An should robots gain sentience and citizenship, they'll advocate for Binary. How good is your Binary these days? Only has two symbols; ones and zeros. Shouldn't be tough to pick up, right?

Lucylastic -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:49:35 AM)
Bleeding arrogance is all it is. Even ENGLAND....realises that its immigrants dont always speak english, to the point that at one time, they had government papers printed in 140 languages for their services. Canada is the same. My next door neighbour has been living there for at least 25 years, had 4 kids here and works here. She speaks greek. Her english is barely passable, but my greek has improved. AMericans demanding people speak english is an oxymoron.

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:55:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Bush screwed up. The U S has never seen fit to have an official language. A National language is to vauge, does it mean primary or official. He is wrong, English is the first language of the U S. I say this because all official documents, until very recently were in English. When the nation was founded English was virtually universal. Today in spite of efforts to treat Spansih as equal to English, English is still, by a hugh margine, the majority language. My doctor's office is multi-cultural in that English is often the minority language. I've observed people talking Arabic, Russian, Cambodian, Chinese, and even French. Many of the people there speak two or three languages each. They all speak English in addition to those languages. It is always fascinating to see what its like to be on the other side of the language barrier while within the United States. And odd sensation given that we do not have a dozen or more nations bordering our own or within a two hour plane trip. You, would be afraid they were all talking about you and discussing how best to take your guns away from you :P If we were to use the one language understood by anyone of any native speaking language, it would be music. People of every language can understand Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture. While I can not understand the Japanese words for Space Battleship Yatamoto, I can often sing the words for Star Blazers. Both tv shows use the same music. Many of the colonial American songs we dance and cheer to every 4th of July have a United Kingdom equivalent. The words are different, but the music is the same. Yet, music, like education, are often cut from budgets by Republicans. That's right BamaD, your own political party undermines many minorities from a good education. Including learning a decent ability to both speak and write within the English language. Are you 'on board' for more dollars in the federal budget be put for Education?

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 9:58:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Bleeding arrogance is all it is. Even ENGLAND....realises that its immigrants dont always speak english, to the point that at one time, they had government papers printed in 140 languages for their services. Canada is the same. My next door neighbour has been living there for at least 25 years, had 4 kids here and works here. She speaks greek. Her english is barely passable, but my greek has improved. AMericans demanding people speak english is an oxymoron. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts requires hospitals and clinics across the state to either have an interpreter service on stand by, or have forms in different languages. Thanks to computers, both can be accomplished pretty quickly. Someone needs a Mass Health renewal form written in Arabic? No problem! Two minute printing job at most. Need someone to translate the language? Just a phone call away. Yes, conservatives are arrogant POS's. Your just learning this?

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 11:01:46 AM)
However, making it the official language of the United States would be unconstitutional. The first amendment's 'freedom of speech' would prohibit it. Even for you this is absurd. It says you can speak, it doesn't say that anyone has to listen. Making English the official language would not prohibit the use of other languages. It would just requre that offical documentation be in English. It would not prohibit public speaking in, for example, it just couldn't be in Congress, Ca would no longer print forms in a dozen or so languages. But it would in no way stop a persons freedom to speak.

NorthernGent -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 12:26:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Name one place in this country "English" is spoken! What we speak is a mixed up language of regional dialects under one blanket name, and even the Brits dont call what we speak English! Of course brits drive on the wrong side of the road, drink warm beer, and gave us the Spice Girls and cricket. The above seems very much like English to me, although I have been away in Italy for two weeks and come back to a mountain of work - so tired and perhaps careless when reading - but it looks like English. What Americans speak is certainly much closer to what is generally considered to be English than what I do, and I live here. In the North East of England we have many words that are derived from Anglo-Saxon and Norse which are still spoken today and you won't find these spoken anywhere else in the English speaking world, nor are they understood by other English men and women let alone in countries such as Australia and the United States. So, your English is more English than me, so it's fair to say you speak English.

thompsonx -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 12:37:23 PM)
Since you claim your purpose is to facilitate communication why pick english? Why not esperanto?

thompsonx -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 12:42:32 PM)
quote: US National Language should have been whatever the Native Americans speak. Why do you think all native americans speak the same language?

NorthernGent -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 1:15:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle but for some reason English speakers decline to acknowledge that English has dialects. That's certainly not the case in England. We generally carefully guard our accents and dialect as, at least in part, it is a means of distinguishing ourselves from other towns, cities and regions. The fact that each town and in many cases villages have distinctive accents will tell you that this difference has been celebrated as worth preserving over time. Brummies, Scousers, Cockneys, Mancunians, Geordies, Mackems to name but a few all have distinctive accents and dialects that would not be understood by anyone outside of England, and then there are the various areas of Yorkshire, Lancashire and in the South and East Anglia and the West Country that are equally distinctive. The United States simply does not have this breadth of regional difference and to a foreigner who has learned English they are far easier to understand than all of the above. By way of example, I stayed in a guest house in Naples recently with an American couple next door. The owner who had a decent grasp of 'proper English' understood the American couple quite easily - he couldn't understand a word I said. Americans generally speak English like Southern, generally Home Counties, English men and women. What people from that part of England and Americans speak has far, far more in common than the English we speak in the various parts of the North. A few dropped letters doesn't change that.

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 1:45:34 PM)
You, would be afraid they were all talking about you and discussing how best to take your guns away from you :P This is stupid. Making English the official language would have no affect other than incouraging people to learn it. They would then progress better in out society, but then it would be harder for you to act like they are oppressed.

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 1:48:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Name one place in this country "English" is spoken! What we speak is a mixed up language of regional dialects under one blanket name, and even the Brits dont call what we speak English! Of course brits drive on the wrong side of the road, drink warm beer, and gave us the Spice Girls and cricket. The above seems very much like English to me, although I have been away in Italy for two weeks and come back to a mountain of work - so tired and perhaps careless when reading - but it looks like English. What Americans speak is certainly much closer to what is generally considered to be English than what I do, and I live here. In the North East of England we have many words that are derived from Anglo-Saxon and Norse which are still spoken today and you won't find these spoken anywhere else in the English speaking world, nor are they understood by other English men and women let alone in countries such as Australia and the United States. So, your English is more English than me, so it's fair to say you speak English. You, like Greta, are attempting to inject reason into the conversation, don't you know better than that.

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 2:34:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD However, making it the official language of the United States would be unconstitutional. The first amendment's 'freedom of speech' would prohibit it. Even for you this is absurd. It says you can speak, it doesn't say that anyone has to listen. Making English the official language would not prohibit the use of other languages. It would just requre that offical documentation be in English. It would not prohibit public speaking in, for example, it just couldn't be in Congress, Ca would no longer print forms in a dozen or so languages. But it would in no way stop a persons freedom to speak. No, it doesn't. If a person does not speak English, why should they be forced to learn English? You want the government forcing which firearm you can have? Given your stance on gun control, I figured you would understand the metaphor pretty clearly.... Freedom of Speech, means there are not to many controls on which language is acceptable. Yet, Freedom of Speech is not an unlimited right. But consider the following.... A man is accused of a crime that does not speak the official language of English. Is the court required to explain to that man in a language they will understand of everything that happens? No. Why should they? Its his tough luck he got arrested for a crime, right? He must be guilty, because he's in court, right? We do not need to give the man a lawyer that speaks his language, right? That's not in the Constitution, right? Lets say for the sake of the argument, the official language is Klingon and your the man in the example. Would you receive a fair court hearing? Would you understand your lawyer whom doesn't speak a bit of this crazy language, English that you mumble? Would the jury understand your background and circumstances when you gave a plead in your defense in your native language of English? To which they too do not need to understand, nor have a paid court interpreter. Oh, I agree, learning the English language is very helpful in many areas. But making it an official language by way of a bill will get challenged almost immediately. And struck down in the courts. Kind of like DOMA. Created by conservatives, struck down in the courts, and a HUGE waste of taxpayer money.... You 'OK' with wasting the taxpayer's money on a law that will not hold up to a decent court challenge?

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/23/2015 2:39:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You, would be afraid they were all talking about you and discussing how best to take your guns away from you :P This is stupid. Making English the official language would have no affect other than incouraging people to learn it. They would then progress better in out society, but then it would be harder for you to act like they are oppressed. incouraging? "They would then progress better in out society,..." You attacked me for spelling errors, dude. Time to own up! Devil's Advocate.... If Spanish ever become the most popular language, should we switch the official language from English to Spanish? What if we got a sizable number of people into Congress whom were secretly part of the "Official Language of the USA is Minbari!"? And they forced us all to learn Minbari? How about Dothraki? You would be 'OK' with it, yes?

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