quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Change the one thing that makes the US different from everywhere else that doesn't have this problem and you'll solve it.
I shouldn't need to spell it out for you... it's obvious.

But the USA isn *entirely* different to anywhere else in the world, FD, and indeed is the only place in the world where things regarding murders and availability of guns proceed along logical lines and just as gun-fans here at CM have been patiently explaining to all of us for so long.

You have to ask yourself: our gun-policy here in the UK works in practice, sure - but, aha! - does it work in *theory*?

New Zeland has our gun laws and your crime rate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It is a socialtal difference, like Mexico has tougher gun laws than you do and far more crime than we do.

As usual, you side-step the issue.
We are talking about repeated gun killings and massacres in the US compared to anywhere else, not crime in general.
We have this same bullshit from you every time something like this crops up in the US and gets discussed in these forums.

Mexico may well have tougher gun laws than we do (I really can't be assed to look it up) but it is apparent that their police force is unable to enact the laws (almost certainly due to the drug barons running the country instead of the police) - much like the US police and authorities seem to be incompetent or unwilling to enforce what laws you do have regarding guns.

No I am not side stepping the issue. Do you really think it is safer in Mexico than the U S? I am pointing out that the difference is sociatal, the U S has a higher murder rate than England if you only count murder with knifes. How does that fit into your idea that the only difference is gun laws. Studies show that tighter gun laws here do not result in less crime. I don't care what studies show about European crime.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

With all due respect to the bravery of our first responders, who put their lives on the line when they enter these kinds of situations, the bravest person in Umpqua was the second person to stand up and say, "I'm a Christian." And the third, and....

I'd rather hear about them than some mad-at-the-world coward who offed himself rather than face what he had coming.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Change the one thing that makes the US different from everywhere else that doesn't have this problem and you'll solve it.
I shouldn't need to spell it out for you... it's obvious.

But the USA isn *entirely* different to anywhere else in the world, FD, and indeed is the only place in the world where things regarding murders and availability of guns proceed along logical lines and just as gun-fans here at CM have been patiently explaining to all of us for so long.

You have to ask yourself: our gun-policy here in the UK works in practice, sure - but, aha! - does it work in *theory*?

New Zeland has our gun laws and your crime rate.

But not your gun death rate or frequency of massacres!!
And certainly not the same level of gun ownership.

Gun ownership per 100 residents (2014) -
US: 88.8
NZ: 22.6
UK: 6.6

The next after USA is Serbia wirh 69.7 and Yemen with 54.8.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
It is a socialtal difference, like Mexico has tougher gun laws than you do and far more crime than we do.

As usual, you side-step the issue.
We are talking about repeated gun killings and massacres in the US compared to anywhere else, not crime in general.
We have this same bullshit from you every time something like this crops up in the US and gets discussed in these forums.

Mexico may well have tougher gun laws than we do (I really can't be assed to look it up) but it is apparent that their police force is unable to enact the laws (almost certainly due to the drug barons running the country instead of the police) - much like the US police and authorities seem to be incompetent or unwilling to enforce what laws you do have regarding guns.

No I am not side stepping the issue. Do you really think it is safer in Mexico than the U S? I am pointing out that the difference is sociatal, the U S has a higher murder rate than England if you only count murder with knifes. How does that fit into your idea that the only difference is gun laws. Studies show that tighter gun laws here do not result in less crime. I don't care what studies show about European crime.

There you go again.
We are not talking about crime in general - only repeated gun massacres on a regular basis in the US that doesn't happen anywhere else on the civilised planet.

Gun deaths.... not anything else. Just gun deaths and constant regular massacres with guns.
That's what this thread is about: Umpqua mass shooting
By continually providing crap about other statistics is side-stepping the issue completely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

With all due respect to the bravery of our first responders, who put their lives on the line when they enter these kinds of situations, the bravest person in Umpqua was the second person to stand up and say, "I'm a Christian." And the third, and....

I'd rather hear about them than some mad-at-the-world coward who offed himself rather than face what he had coming.

K.

What does the body count need to be before it is admitted that Christians ARE being targeted?

I think that even the first person to answer Christian should be considered brave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Change the one thing that makes the US different from everywhere else that doesn't have this problem and you'll solve it.
I shouldn't need to spell it out for you... it's obvious.

But the USA isn *entirely* different to anywhere else in the world, FD, and indeed is the only place in the world where things regarding murders and availability of guns proceed along logical lines and just as gun-fans here at CM have been patiently explaining to all of us for so long.

You have to ask yourself: our gun-policy here in the UK works in practice, sure - but, aha! - does it work in *theory*?

New Zeland has our gun laws and your crime rate.

But not your gun death rate or frequency of massacres!!
And certainly not the same level of gun ownership.

Gun ownership per 100 residents (2014) -
US: 88.8
NZ: 22.6
UK: 6.6

The next after USA is Serbia wirh 69.7 and Yemen with 54.8.

Thank you, you just supported my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Change the one thing that makes the US different from everywhere else that doesn't have this problem and you'll solve it.
I shouldn't need to spell it out for you... it's obvious.

But the USA isn *entirely* different to anywhere else in the world, FD, and indeed is the only place in the world where things regarding murders and availability of guns proceed along logical lines and just as gun-fans here at CM have been patiently explaining to all of us for so long.

You have to ask yourself: our gun-policy here in the UK works in practice, sure - but, aha! - does it work in *theory*?

New Zeland has our gun laws and your crime rate.

But not your gun death rate or frequency of massacres!!
And certainly not the same level of gun ownership.

Gun ownership per 100 residents (2014) -
US: 88.8
NZ: 22.6
UK: 6.6

The next after USA is Serbia wirh 69.7 and Yemen with 54.8.

Thank you, you just supported my point.

Really?? How the fuck do you work that out with your warped sense of logic??

US has more guns than anyone else and you have more gun deaths per capita than anywhere else.
Other countries have your gun laws (so you claim) and they don't have your number of gun deaths.

The common denominator is more guns = more deaths.
Whilst taken on a strictly numerical argument, that would make sense.
But.... and here's the punch line, the US has a 4x higher gun ownership than the country that you claim has the same gun laws, yet they don't have the same level (per capita) of gun deaths or massacres that the US does.
So... what is at fault here and causing those extra gun deaths in the US??
If the laws are the same (or as near enough to make little or no difference), that points directly to the level of gun ownership as the causal effect of the much higher gun death rate.

That doesn't support your claim at all - quite the reverse.
It shows your argument to be wrong.

And don't go quoting all that crap about higher ownership and gun crimes coming down again.
The US outnumber gun deaths by a huge factor compared with everywhere else in world.
If it's coming down (and been doing so for quite some, you claim) then it has a friggin long way to go yet to come even close to your nearest rival - probably a dozen or more generations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

With all due respect to the bravery of our first responders, who put their lives on the line when they enter these kinds of situations, the bravest person in Umpqua was the second person to stand up and say, "I'm a Christian." And the third, and....

I'd rather hear about them than some mad-at-the-world coward who offed himself rather than face what he had coming.

I think that even the first person to answer Christian should be considered brave.

The first person he killed was Jewish.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

And I replied that NZ did NOT have your gun deaths and repeated gun massacres despite having the same gun laws.

Or didn't you read that bit??

Repeat: "If the laws are the same (or as near enough to make little or no difference), that points directly to the level of gun ownership as the causal effect of the much higher gun death rate."

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

And I replied that NZ did NOT have your gun deaths and repeated gun massacres despite having the same gun laws.

Or didn't you read that bit??

Repeat: "If the laws are the same (or as near enough to make little or no difference), that points directly to the level of gun ownership as the causal effect of the much higher gun death rate."

Which is what I said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

With all due respect to the bravery of our first responders, who put their lives on the line when they enter these kinds of situations, the bravest person in Umpqua was the second person to stand up and say, "I'm a Christian." And the third, and....

I'd rather hear about them than some mad-at-the-world coward who offed himself rather than face what he had coming.

I think that even the first person to answer Christian should be considered brave.

The first person he killed was Jewish.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

And I replied that NZ did NOT have your gun deaths and repeated gun massacres despite having the same gun laws.

Or didn't you read that bit??

Repeat: "If the laws are the same (or as near enough to make little or no difference), that points directly to the level of gun ownership as the causal effect of the much higher gun death rate."

Which is what I said.

No, you compared it to crime rate - not gun death rate.
You are either missing the label or being deliberately obtuse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Aren't the Jews considered to be 'christians' too??

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Aren't the Jews considered to be 'christians' too??

I tend to think it wouldn't have mattered what the religion was, if it wasn't the right sort of Islamic, those poor victims would have been shot regardless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I said they had a crime rate comprable to Australias. And regardless of your myopia it is the crime rate that is important, not the gun crime rate. Unless your myopia tells you that a man knifed to death isn't as dead as one who is shot. In any case the low murder rate with any weapon wrecks your childish belief that guns cause crime.