America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/8/2015 8:09:54 PM)

America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe

ARTICLE

• Data for 2012 compiled by GunPolicy.org found 140 gun homicides in France compared with 11,622 in the United States.

In the US:

• more than 300 million guns in circulation

• mass shootings occurring at a rate of nearly one per day

• thousands of victims of gun-related deaths




jlf1961 -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/8/2015 8:40:58 PM)

If I gave a flying fuck about what the Europeans thought about the fact that guns are allowed to be owned by citizens, I might give this a second thought.

Now, looking at Europe, I see a continent where there is one centralized government that is basically replacing national governments, leaning heavily toward a socialist system where people's freedoms are lost to benefit the whole.

Add to that the simple fact that Putin has gotten very nationalistic and belligerent, should the Russians move west, the same Europeans who are telling us what is wrong with our country will be screaming for us to save their ass.

Not to mention, while screaming at the US about guns, they are turning refugees away like lepers, I say, clean up your own back yard and problems we will deal with ours in our way.




Kirata -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/8/2015 8:59:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe

mass shootings occurring at a rate of nearly one per day

From 1999 through 2013, a span of 15 years, there were a total of 66 public mass shootings. Adding in familicides (127) and other felony mass shootings (124) brings us 317, which is ~21 per year, so the claim is off by a factor of seventeen! What the fuck is the matter with you? Do you have any contact with reality, or even a passing regard for the truth? You can make your case without making shit up and citing biased crap sources.

K.




MrRodgers -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/8/2015 9:10:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

If I gave a flying fuck about what the Europeans thought about the fact that guns are allowed to be owned by citizens, I might give this a second thought.

Now, looking at Europe, I see a continent where there is one centralized government that is basically replacing national governments, leaning heavily toward a socialist system where people's freedoms are lost to benefit the whole.

Add to that the simple fact that Putin has gotten very nationalistic and belligerent, should the Russians move west, the same Europeans who are telling us what is wrong with our country will be screaming for us to save their ass.

Not to mention, while screaming at the US about guns, they are turning refugees away like lepers, I say, clean up your own back yard and problems we will deal with ours in our way.

In fact, there are more govts. now that are leaning toward leaving the EU legal regime, govts. are not taking ownership of the means of production (socialism) and to the extent govt. is providing more social benefits, there isn't a single European that would trade places with most Americans and leaving single payer medical regimes for only one example, resulting in Europeans living longer, for less money and enjoying about twice as much paid time off from work.

To speculate that Russia is going west at all is a strawman when it is obvious Russian adventurism is to their east and is a ruse only to suggest with little foundation, that they'd need our help beyond NATO if it ever really performed as was originally designed.

That they are taking any refugees at all is as much or more one could say about any US contribution other than the typical, hypocritical and myopic view that the US would be doing any better.

One can hardly blame Europeans for their views and for not in fact wanting to come to the US, to face the exponentially higher chance...they'd be shot.




lovmuffin -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/8/2015 10:23:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

If I gave a flying fuck about what the Europeans thought about the fact that guns are allowed to be owned by citizens, I might give this a second thought.


Ya just had to go and say it first.[8D]




BamaD -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/8/2015 10:28:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe

mass shootings occurring at a rate of nearly one per day

From 1999 through 2013, a span of 15 years, there were a total of 66 public mass shootings. Adding in familicides (127) and other felony mass shootings (124) brings us 317, which is ~21 per year, so the claim is off by a factor of seventeen! What the fuck is the matter with you? Do you have any contact with reality, or even a passing regard for the truth? You can make your case without making shit up and citing biased crap sources.

K.


I mentioned this in another thread, anti gun groups redifine mass shooting in what ever way they have to in order to bring the number up. And people like CB eat it up.




CreativeDominant -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/8/2015 11:46:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe

mass shootings occurring at a rate of nearly one per day

From 1999 through 2013, a span of 15 years, there were a total of 66 public mass shootings. Adding in familicides (127) and other felony mass shootings (124) brings us 317, which is ~21 per year, so the claim is off by a factor of seventeen! What the fuck is the matter with you? Do you have any contact with reality, or even a passing regard for the truth? You can make your case without making shit up and citing biased crap sources.

K.


He doesn't seem to. THis difference was pointed out to him, Joether and others in another thread recently and they ignored it.




tweakabelle -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 1:33:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


Now, looking at Europe, I see a continent where there is one centralized government that is basically replacing national governments, leaning heavily toward a socialist system where people's freedoms are lost to benefit the whole.



Which freedoms in particular are you referring to? Perhaps you might be referring to those unique American 'freedoms such as:
* The freedom to die an early death because of inadequate health care systems; or
* The freedom to become a casualty of the US's addiction to guns and gun violence.

No doubt there are millions of Europeans crying themselves to sleep each and every night as they contemplate their horrible freedom to access quality healthcare and to be protected from gunslinging morons acting out their juvenile fantasies. The absence of mass movements of Europeans out on the streets demanding such basic freedoms from their tyrannical governments is inexplicable isn't it?. It must be a continent of apathy or something ............




blnymph -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 2:00:46 AM)

The article quoted is apparently written by an American (living in France?) for an American newspaper.

Is it necessary to simulate Europeans to get non-mainstream opinions published?







blnymph -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 2:10:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Not to mention, while screaming at the US about guns, they are turning refugees away like lepers, ...



In September alone Germany did NOT turn away 167 000 newly arrived refugees. I gave you the figures periodically. Read on the other thread about Syrian refugees. Figures for Refugees in Austria, Sweden run into tens of thousands too.




jlf1961 -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 2:54:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


Now, looking at Europe, I see a continent where there is one centralized government that is basically replacing national governments, leaning heavily toward a socialist system where people's freedoms are lost to benefit the whole.



Which freedoms in particular are you referring to? Perhaps you might be referring to those unique American 'freedoms such as:
* The freedom to die an early death because of inadequate health care systems; or
* The freedom to become a casualty of the US's addiction to guns and gun violence.

No doubt there are millions of Europeans crying themselves to sleep each and every night as they contemplate their horrible freedom to access quality healthcare and to be protected from gunslinging morons acting out their juvenile fantasies. The absence of mass movements of Europeans out on the streets demanding such basic freedoms from their tyrannical governments is inexplicable isn't it?. It must be a continent of apathy or something ............



You are far more likely to die as a tourest due to violence in Mexico, or any one of the central and south american countries, and yes, they will probably use a gun if they are in a hurry, other techniques are machete, setting the victim on fire, beheading and flat out torture.

Per capita, gun violence is higher in Mexico and Columbia due to drug cartel activities, but, by all means continue this bullshit about it being a purely American problem.

And please, continue to make the asinine claim that if guns were illegal the problem would go away, it has worked wonders in Mexico and Columbia, I mean you cant just go down some street and pick up a full auto ak... oh wait, yes you can.

Now as far as health care goes, how many budget cuts has socialized medicine seen in Europe due to austerity measures if you are afraid of getting shot in the US, by all means stay away. You could go to Egypt and get blasted by their military.




DaddySatyr -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 4:03:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

One can hardly blame Europeans for their views and for not in fact wanting to come to the US, to face the exponentially higher chance...they'd be shot.



Reason enough to make guns even easier to acquire, here, as far as I'm concerned.



Michael




jlf1961 -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 4:46:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Not to mention, while screaming at the US about guns, they are turning refugees away like lepers, ...



In September alone Germany did NOT turn away 167 000 newly arrived refugees. I gave you the figures periodically. Read on the other thread about Syrian refugees. Figures for Refugees in Austria, Sweden run into tens of thousands too.



Gee, 167000 out of how many?

How many EU countries are closing borders?




tweakabelle -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 5:20:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


Now, looking at Europe, I see a continent where there is one centralized government that is basically replacing national governments, leaning heavily toward a socialist system where people's freedoms are lost to benefit the whole.



Which freedoms in particular are you referring to? Perhaps you might be referring to those unique American 'freedoms such as:
* The freedom to die an early death because of inadequate health care systems; or
* The freedom to become a casualty of the US's addiction to guns and gun violence.

No doubt there are millions of Europeans crying themselves to sleep each and every night as they contemplate their horrible freedom to access quality healthcare and to be protected from gunslinging morons acting out their juvenile fantasies. The absence of mass movements of Europeans out on the streets demanding such basic freedoms from their tyrannical governments is inexplicable isn't it?. It must be a continent of apathy or something ............



You are far more likely to die as a tourest due to violence in Mexico, or any one of the central and south american countries, and yes, they will probably use a gun if they are in a hurry, other techniques are machete, setting the victim on fire, beheading and flat out torture.

Per capita, gun violence is higher in Mexico and Columbia due to drug cartel activities, but, by all means continue this bullshit about it being a purely American problem.

And please, continue to make the asinine claim that if guns were illegal the problem would go away, it has worked wonders in Mexico and Columbia, I mean you cant just go down some street and pick up a full auto ak... oh wait, yes you can.

Now as far as health care goes, how many budget cuts has socialized medicine seen in Europe due to austerity measures if you are afraid of getting shot in the US, by all means stay away. You could go to Egypt and get blasted by their military.

So you are either unable or unwilling to specify the freedoms you claim Americans enjoy yet are being lost to Europe's allegedly tyrannical governments. So your claim is empty rhetoric. There are none.

And it really matters not an iota if things are worse in Mexico or Columbia or Egypt than they are in the US. Trying to deflect the issue to the Third World simply highlights the emptiness of your claims. It also implicitly concedes the point - though I suspect you don't realise that. If you did you wouldn't have tried it in the first place.

Anyway, thanks for playing.




blnymph -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 5:31:37 AM)

- 167 000 in September (about the same in August)
(notably including Afghan civilians who worked for US troops in Afghanistan but are left behind)


- in comparison to 10 000 the USA "promises" to take - when? this year? next year?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/afp-how-the-us-plans-to-welcome-10000-syrian-refugees-2015-9?r=US&IR=T

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/world/middleeast/obama-directs-administration-to-accept-10000-syrian-refugees.html

maybe you should tell us how many refugees Texas can and will take - just by comparison of the size of your magnificent state which no doubt is a peak of civilisation and really big, in comparison to our countries here I see there is space for many.

(just one more for comparison: population Germany: about 82 million; population Texas about 27 million)

http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/how-big-is-texas-compared-to-other-land-masses/






cloudboy -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 8:26:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

The article quoted is apparently written by an American (living in France?) for an American newspaper.

Is it necessary to simulate Europeans to get non-mainstream opinions published?


The author reported how the French Media covers a US mass shooting, and then what statistics are used as background facts. He also detailed the requirements to own a gun in FRANCE. What's interesting about the USA is how extremism is the norm where gun ownership is concerned. Of course there are worse places: Afghanistan, Somalia, and other such nations with widespread gun ownership. But, there does not appear to be another 1st World equivalent to the USA.




Lucylastic -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 8:48:20 AM)

Just up for fun and a different look at the issue....
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89d_1411198955




blnymph -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 10:01:43 AM)

worth watching indeed[:D]




tj444 -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 10:05:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Just up for fun and a different look at the issue....
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89d_1411198955


lol he "shoots down" all the gun arguments really well..

Imo, the crime rate in Canada would be half what it is if it were not for the US next door and all the guns (legal & illegal) that are easy to buy and the firearms traffickers that smuggle that shite into Canada..




CreativeDominant -> RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe (10/9/2015 11:03:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Just up for fun and a different look at the issue....
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89d_1411198955


lol he "shoots down" all the gun arguments really well..

Imo, the crime rate in Canada would be half what it is if it were not for the US next door and all the guns (legal & illegal) that are easy to buy and the firearms traffickers that smuggle that shite into Canada..

Or...if Canada didnt have all those criminals. How about blaming them and, you know, making them responsible for breaking the law?




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