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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 8:38:01 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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Being a masochist myself, my choice in partners have always been those who are Sadists. For me, I can't play with someone in such a way until there is a huge degree of trust that has developed because I have witnessed the changes that they undergo when the "Beast" steps in. I have always been in awe of the self control it must take to keep that beast leashed. As a submissive, I kind of take for granted what happens in a scene at the moment I take flight. I can let go at that point. When a sadist hits that space...the space where I as a masochist can be free...that is when the sadist has to really focus on their control. Viewing it from the masochistic perspective I can watch the change occur. The focus...the darkening. It really is a very remarkable physical change that overcomes them. With someone that I trust greatly, it is almost as if it is a cue for me to "let go" and can often be the catalyst that triggers flight....with someone I have not developed that trust in, it is an uncomfortable time where I find I need to fight the desire to let go and stay aware as I am not sure if they have the necessary control.

The sadists that I have known in my life have been well aware of the heavy weight of responsibility their sadism carries. Some of them would definitely be able to "go there" far beyond where anyone ever should. It amazes me that they can find that internal brake when they hit their "space".

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 7/19/2006 8:43:56 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 21

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 8:39:58 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

Susan, perhaps you know I sometimes Top; I’ve discovered I have a wide Sadistic streak. The fact that I love a good Sadist, too, will help here too, I think.

One thing to remember is that it was for de Sadé himself the word was coined…he apparently had little to no restraint and some like him would happily fillet a live body, given the chance. Just for the fun of it.

But ‘our’ Sadists are playing by consensual rules…hopefully. Usually they love their toys, too and nobody wants to hurt their toys!

Still, what I want to focus on is the actual sadistic play. USUALLY both parties enjoy it…or at least I’d like to hope that’s true. I like a really good beating now and then…with single-tails and canes that leave deep, bloody welts. (No…this does NOT come from casual play!) Still, I cannot just walk up against a wall and start at ‘level 10’…I need a warm-up to get endorphins flowing, etc. Knowing that, WHY would the one I’m playing with want NOT to take care of my ‘needs’? I really DO believe play is a ‘win/win’ thing…BOTH parties have to enjoy it or they will soon cease to be partners, no? Of COURSE he pushes…and of COURSE I’d like that… but it’s all part of enjoying a good Sadist! Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…

beverly

Edited to add: And me as the Sadist? I absolutely love the look in the boy's eyes when I tell him, with his back all red and hot and marks on his ass and thighs that the next ten are for ME! Or... when I pull out my knife after coating his torso in hot wax... It's like my body buzzes, I'm flying in a very different place then as a submissive with a Sadist... I AM the sadist and it's absolutely delightful to know what the bottom/sub is feeling; even IF they are a bit nervous! heh heh heh

< Message edited by Bearlee -- 7/19/2006 9:18:57 AM >

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 22

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 8:50:39 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Mistoferin, I find your descriptions so clear and descriptive. Readig your post here, has truly cleared up a lot for me, as well as been reassuring to read. Thank you.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 23

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 8:57:27 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Well - my attitude about appreciating and understanding Sadism has completely changed in the past few months. I guess a lightbulb just went on for me one day, and I thought: "Gee, this is just regular bdsm activity, perhaps cranked up a notch (or two, or ten, depending on the people and situation), and the Dominants and-or Masters are turned on by seeing their partner physically or emotionally suffer. But they do still really care about them, no question." (at least, the healthy ones do, as is the case for those who appreciate "less extreme" types of bdsm activity).

However, I do have a question about how a dedicated Sadist knows just when to stop, and when their partner has, indeed, had "enough" of whatever, and just cannot take anymore. I am not insinuating here, that any Sadist out there is a sociopath, or does not know their partner intimatley enough to be able to gauge this - *I am asking if the way they might gauge this is different than if they were not a Sadist. If they know (if not, take your best guess). This is not a "trick question", it is honest human curiosity.

One learns as one goes, knowing the human body is a resilient machine, though it does have its vulnerabilities. As a sadist, I have learned through natural trial and error what level of cruelty is wise. Having said that, I will in turn state that a sadist can feel affection for his / her plaything—even love.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 24

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 9:17:02 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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I watch his body language, I listen to his breathing, his voice, I look into his eyes. I do all these things to see if what I am doing to him is within the boundaries of safety that I have set. I guess I'm more of a phyiscal sadist, I enjoy leaving welts and bruises, never blood

thats not our thing.

As for emotional sadism I do some humilation and fear play but never anything so severe as to make him cry or to effect him negatively permanently. I believe that the body can take more whacks then the mind can so I treat it delicately.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 25

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 9:27:57 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Is the question how far can a sadist go or how far SHOULD a sadist go?

And IMO being a good sadist isn't about the intimacy of the relationship- but simply what every good relationship is about- everyone being aware of what they want, understanding expectations, communicating together and creating a good experience together.

It depends on the pain tolerance and mental and emotional processing of the sadist's partner. As long as everyone comes out on the other side feeling good about the experience, then it went well.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 26

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 9:55:43 AM

mistoferin

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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I'm not sure if I can verbalize this well so please bear with me, I'm not trying to offend anyone, just verbalize an observation.....

I think there are sadists and then there are sadists...

One of them seems to be motivated by the desire to provoke a response within you...the other by a desire to provoke a response within themselves.

On one hand you have the sadist who will, as a part of a scene, take a whip to you and delight in your yelps in a "I bet that hurt...ha ha ha...." funny kind of way, "oooo isn't that a pretty mark".. They get off on your vocalization and their ability to provoke a response. They provide painful stimuli not so much because it is their desire to do so...but because they know that it is what will drive you and they enjoy the response. When you are providing him with adequate response...that is when his scene begins to wind down.

On the other hand you have the sadist who makes his sadism the scene. His hunger for your pain is the driving force. He will be very much in touch. He will be very much intune with the rise of your heartbeat...the laboring of your breathing....the expression on your face and the fear and agony in your eyes. At each level of intensity his hunger is not satiated but grows. His pleasure doesn't begin to take hold until you are at your edge....and the further he can slowly take you there and keep you there has him salivating for more. When you are providing adequate response...that is when his scene starts.

I find that I am much more suited to the latter. That is the type of sadist whose levels of intensity and focus baffle me though....the "self control while operating right on the edge". I've often asked after a scene "How?". How do they do it? The answers I've gotten have ranged from "I don't know, I just do" to "because I know that if I continued past that point I would simply become an animal". I'd love to hear if there are techniques that some of the sadists here use to keep themselves in check.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 7/19/2006 10:00:51 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 27

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:05:07 AM

TheHouseOfHussey

Posts: 149
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Dallas / Ft Worth Texas
Status: offline

In order to "session" in a sadistic manner, you really have to know your massochist and their limits first, there is no magic formula, it takes time and is something that should be reached on a work in progress basis with alot of temp checks along the way. Remember SSC at all times.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 28

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:31:39 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Great descriptions, Bearlee. I really appreciate your detailed and personal explanation. Thanks!

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 29

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:38:53 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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amayos, it is reassuring to hear that. Thanks for the clarity. The following is good-natured teasing, and I only tease people I know can take it, so here goes... I already know, as a Scorpio you fear nothing, amayos - and if you do, nobody else will ever know about it, that's for damn sure.You also have a thing for "control". And (so I've read) appreciate fostering regeneration in yourself and other people ; that's what the book I read said, anyway, about Scorpios. Probably a good thing. My father is a Scorpio - getting them to admit what they even ate for breakfast isn't easy - it's all a closely guarded secet held by CIA agents in their head somewhere.They are so creative, and so shrewd, too. They give you their real opinion and are great judges of character and don't sugar-coat it like we Pisceans sometimes do. I do consider this clear and concise explanation to be a gift - characteristic of you though it might be, ya'll can be a secretive bunch. Thank you.

I know ya'll can be a serious bunch, too - so puleez remember, I am only teasing. I know this: One thing one never wants to do is incur that Scorpio wrath; you may not live to tell about it (this much I know already, and by God I do believe that part)...

So, peace.

- Susan.

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 10:56:01 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 30

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:47:24 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Thanks, Lashra for the thoughts. I have wondered abut the emotional sadism and think I could get interested in that. It seems to me one would have to really know their partner intimately to do it well; and also really, maybe get much satisfaction out of it. I think that people knowing other people's deeper motives and desries is both a wonderful and a scary thing, but this might just make it all the more obvious how deeply somebody knows someone and thus how much they may care (otherwise why would they bother to do that kind of thing)? That might sound like a vague reason for wanting to perhaps explore it sometime, but is best I can d for now. Anyway, thanks for responding.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 31

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:50:28 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Thanks, House of Hussey.

- Suan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to TheHouseOfHussey)

Post #: 32

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:50:45 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

Susan, you are in this inquisitive mood asking all these thought provoking questions. You are on some tear. Smile. I think your question really is asking about Doms as sadists. I think most Doms are sadists. I know that I enjoy causing pain. It would seem kind of phony to me if it were all sensation play and I didn't really want to cause the pain, but only the reaction. Sure, I know my sub well, ChainedExistence, and don't have to use safe words with her. My sadism is controlled and turned into a "fun" thing when matched with her submissiveness.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 33

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:51:42 AM

enthralled

Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
Status: offline

I agree with the previous responses. Being a sadomasochist and somewhat of a heavy player, its MY responsibility to communicate with my top.
If I am doing the topping, I expect the bottom to communicate with me as well. I won't ask to top anyone I dont know, but if someone asks me to top them, I ask a list of questions a mile long including medical history, medications, allergies, etc. I don't play heavy on a first scene with someone and watch for physical signs- breathing pattern, facial expressions, skin color, skin temprature, verbal communication, etc etc- I have to have some kind of feedback from the bottom, that's how I know where to go and where not to go. If they're the 'stoic' type, it's practically a lack of communication and I sometimes simply stop and ask if they're doing ok.
..... in the process of 'learning' someone, it just gradually increases until I know what they can or cant take.

~enthralled

Edited to add .... they ALWAYS have a safeword and are encouraged to use it if need be!

< Message edited by enthralled -- 7/19/2006 10:52:39 AM >

_____________________________

A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.-Jean Paul Richter

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 34

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:02:33 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

amayos, it is reassuring to hear that. Thanks for the clarity. The following is good-natured teasing, and I only tease people I know can take it, so here goes... I already know, as a Scorpio you fear nothing, amayos - and if you do, nobody else will ever know about it, that's for damn sure.You also have this big thing about "control". And a need to foster regeneration in yourself and other people ; that's what the book I read said, anyway. Probably a good thing. My father is a Scorpio - getting them to admit what they even ate for breakfast isn't easy - it's all a closely guarded secet held by CIA agents in their head somewhere, and I consider this clear and concise explanation to be a gift - characteristic of you though it might be. Thank you. I know ya'll can be a serious bunch - remember, I am only teasing. I know this:One thing one never wants to do is incur that Scorpio wrath; you may not live to tell about it (this much I know already)...
- Susan.

Susan,

Those descriptions aren't too far off at all, save the wrath part. I am in actuality difficult to truly anger. What is more likely to happen should I be so disappointed would be the source of that disappointment's complete and abrupt dismissal from my life, without forewarning. Energy vampires are pawns not worth spending energy upon; better to put that energy toward the greater chess match that is life.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 35

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:04:52 AM

SusanofO

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ExSteel, I think all Dominants must be to a degree Sadists, too - otherwise why are they involved in bdsm at all? And I think all submissives and slaves are to a degree masochists for the same reason. I guess I just am amazed at myself becasue i previously held a lot of misconceptions about the concept (and practice) of Sadism. I think it's gotten a bad rap, and is misunderstood by many. But some may have had bad experiences, too. But not, I'll bet with caring or experienced people.
For whatever reason, I am no longer freaked out by it.

I have had lots of questions lately, but I am a curious person. I "cheat" on the message boards - if I see somebody's question being ignored (or mine) I will make some benign or un-necessary response just to bump it up to the top surface of the pond again (people seem to answer more questions at the tops of the boards on this forum,) and I also sometimes see when the same ones have been up for days and will just add one. Hopefully, a good one. Thanks for answering.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 11:24:40 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 36

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:11:38 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

Susan, I see what you are doing and you are a good voice to have asking and prodding for answers. You use your mind and don't fall into the stereotypical frenzy patterns some do. Keep up the good search.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 37

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:13:38 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Well, I agree, amayos. I do not like energy vampires and although I have my whiny moments, I think I try not to be one myself. I think Scorpios have gotten a bad rap perhaps in the 'incurring fear' area. The ones I know are good people, and if they do it that, they do it for a good reason (General George Patton, and more U.S. Presidents, then any other sign have been Scorpios). They are not wussy, and never say die. If one needs a clear assessment of a situation, no holds barred, they are good people to ask, I've read. They have a gentle side to them, though, and can be very emotional (but don't show it as often as some other water signs) - and I always thought that was a good thing; it's the reason I think they can be so creative. Obviously, I think Scorpios are great. I grew up with one, so they don't scare me, I've seen the good they can do.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 11:25:41 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 38

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:17:49 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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entralled it's always great to hear from you. I wonder if I'd be silent or verbal. It sounds to me like verbal is important, and I am anyway, so I probably would be that. Until I maybe started flying (if I did, which I assume I would, maybe not).
It is again reassuring to know some (most) watch for physical signs of what is happening to the submssive and also they know what to watch for; I am guessing some experience is necessary here, and one cannot go declaring they are a Sadist with little experience, unless they want to be a danger to others.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 11:18:45 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to enthralled)

Post #: 39

RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:20:23 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

LA, thanks for the reply; I know it is probably like many areas and there are people toying with it who know not what they do and many who have much experience. I guess finding out who knows what is one of the most important things I'd be concerned about. I would not put myself in inexperienced hands.

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 40

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