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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 4:10:50 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		I dunno KoM ... maybe before we increase the scales we need to figure fool proof ways to not lose keys to shackles ... that was too rich.
 
I don't know as I would want to take the recipient out of subspace for once she hits it she tens to be able to take twice as much as she normally would thus I don't get to satiate my animalistic cravings

< Message edited by Tamerofwild1s -- 7/19/2006 4:11:15 PM >

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A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 4:25:44 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		It would appear that you never enjoyed toying with a person at the edges of subspace.  Contrary to public opinion... subspace doesn't allow you inflict more pain... just more damage without them feeling the pain.  The chemical cocktail of subspace surpresses pain it doesn't allow one to feel more pain.  Using this cocktail of chemicals to prolong the scene allows me to keep a person in sadistic scene for a very long time.  Thus they can be made to feel pain for a longer periods of time.

For me the sadistic scene is not a sprint ... It's a marathon!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 4:32:09 PM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know how I have the ability to know when to stop. I just do. I read people very easily, and apparently cue into noticing physical trama, even when I can't exactly call it such. I just know something is wrong, and thus, stop what I am doing. I am also empathic, so emotional suffering causes me emotional suffering. Punishing my slave for the first time was extremely harsh on me, because I was cueing off on her sadness and guilt at having screwed up.

With a new partner under my whip I consistently check in with them verbally to know how they are doing and if they are comfortable with how the scene is progressing and if we should continue (sadist inside, says yes!). Ex: My flogging buddy Mike admitted once that his nerves were feeling wierd, and that was enough of a verbal cue for me to stop, although I know what he was feeling (as a masochist myself) was the floating feeling one gets from drifting into subspace. He was just a bit uncomfortable with it because it was a new experience. 

However, my slave has finally enabled me to be able to experience the beginnings of the depths of my sadism. Not because she is my slave and does what I wish of her, but because she too is a dedicated masochist. I must admit, it is the scenes with her that really get me going, because I know I can press her to the ends of her tolerence, and both of us will leave it feeling good. Although, like me, she has yet to find her breaking point. Those scenes with her, punishment somewhat excluded (I have to admit there was a darker part of me enjoying seeing her like that, something I to this day, feel guilty over) I enjoy most.

< Message edited by Slipstreme -- 7/19/2006 4:38:04 PM >

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 4:33:41 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s

I knew of a girl who got so addicted to the pain that after a good session she would beg her master to start kicking her this just seems a bit exxcessive when your asking someone to take thier feet and deal blows that may obviously break bones .. I dunno I love dishing out pain ..... but ... I am not gonna go tothe extent that someone could get permanently injured from it no matter how much they beg


Glad to see you know your limitation.... but don't judge someone else because you never have the will or ability to do kicking.

I have done many heavy Kicking scenes.  Back, Buttocks, Chest, Upper Arms, Thighs have all be places that my foot has landed.  Heavying kicking can be an incredible play.  A couple weeks ago when I went to Ft.Lauderdale to visit kyra, we went go the hotel overlooking the beach.  Her first thought of the room was standing against the window getting the hell kicked out of her.  She asked for it.... and being the sadist I am... I told her maybe... she's still waiting for it .... that mental/emotional twist is fun sometimes.  Now as she reads this she is going to wonder if she should of asked or shouldn't of asked... mmmm more twist!   But, as last thought... Yeah I will be kicking the hell out of her again... she can count on it... but she will not know when.


< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 7/19/2006 4:35:37 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 4:40:58 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Erin... Very expressive words! that shows you have a deep understanding and experience of what it is to be the catalyst to fullfilling the hunger and craving of another.  Thank you for your post.


Thank you for the kind words. I noticed something in your post that ignited another thought. The type of sadist I was describing there...when you scene with them.... it feels as though they are quite literally "feeding" off of you, consuming you. I don't know if it makes any sense at all but...as a masochist, that hunger is what I fear...it is what motivates me...it is what I crave, need and embrace....and that "feeding" and the thought of providing that sustenance is the very thing that sustains me through the experience

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 4:49:00 PM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline 		This is a fascinating thread for me. My last boyfriend/Dom was new to BDSM when we met; I basically introduced him to it and we had an incredibly hot dynamic to that aspect. Sadly, we did not connect on an intellectual level as much as a passionate level. We were in total lust and love, but it was a doomed relationship.

I found that during our years together, he became very sadistic and started ignoring safe words and doing things that were too painful for me. I had never considered myself masochistic in reality, although I fantasized about pain. I found myself taking more and more pain to fulfill HIS need for inflicting pain and while I did not enjoy it as much as he did, I was able to eroticize it to the extent that our scenes together were incredible. But things often went too far for me.

However, as time went on, I began to feel very schizophrenic about what we were doing; on one hand, I enjoyed the excitement of being with him and our BDSM had started out according to what I needed and wanted and I thought he and I were on the same page.

But then, it morphed into our needs being different, with his sadism reaching new heights. He literally needed more and more intensity to get him off and I found myself resenting him and myself for taking it.

I tried like hell to discuss with him how he would go over the edge and that would literally take me "out" of a scene. To me, pain should keep me at the edge, not push me over so that I am no longer aroused.

He never understood any of this; he would simply say, Oh you got off, what are you complaining about. But, it was very hard to be of two minds about his sadism and me taking it and always worrying that he would go too far and damage me. As it was, we had some close calls.

So, it is interesting to read the responses, especially of the sadists and it is enlightening.

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 4:56:10 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Erin... Very expressive words! that shows you have a deep understanding and experience of what it is to be the catalyst to fullfilling the hunger and craving of another.  Thank you for your post.


Thank you for the kind words. I noticed something in your post that ignited another thought. The type of sadist I was describing there...when you scene with them.... it feels as though they are quite literally "feeding" off of you, consuming you. I don't know if it makes any sense at all but...as a masochist, that hunger is what I fear...it is what motivates me...it is what I crave, need and embrace....and that "feeding" and the thought of providing that sustenance is the very thing that sustains me through the experience


this is the ultimate power exchange I mentioned earlier .. both parties feeding off each other both parties going totally animalistic in nature as they crave and feed off each other .... very well put Erin

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 4:59:19 PM   
Sensualips


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quote:

I am asking if the way they might gauge this is different than if they were not a Sadist.

 
Interesting question, especially given a discussion I was having earlier this week with a partner. 

Most people that know me casually or have watched me scene a few times would not really describe me as sadistic.  When I top I tend to focus on the sensual, the warm and fuzzy pleasure-spiked-with-erotic-pain type scenarios.  Often my goal is to make it a positive, nice experience and I pay a lot of attention to what the bottom wants and enjoys.

But sometimes I get into a sadistic head space where I genuinely do not care what the bottom wants.  It is about what I want and like, about making him/her hurt, scream, cry, beg, shake, bleed. It is real pain and real helplessness. I still pay attention and still do not violate specific limits.  But instead of backing off or changing up when I feel he/she is at the edge, that it when I push forward or at least maintain.  That is when I feel alive and connected.

For me that is the difference between "playing" and "playing hard." I can't just turn on playing hard by request.  It is entirely dependent on the partner, the situation, the energy.  It is not always about how well I know the bottom though. I have played hard with a bottom I barely knew at all, but under the watchful eye of her Dom.

Sometimes if I know I am in a place to want to play hard as a top, I ask a third person I trust/know well observe the scene -- either someone who knows me intimately or who knows the bottom intimately. He or she can indicate to me to pull back or stop, if required.  Otherwise...I might not.

I recognize that and recognize my inexperience as well.  At first this really disturbed me, the adrenaline and rush and desire to hurt and the realization that I could.  Sometimes it still does.


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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 5:03:23 PM   
KnightofMists


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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin 

Thank you for the kind words. I noticed something in your post that ignited another thought. The type of sadist I was describing there...when you scene with them.... it feels as though they are quite literally "feeding" off of you, consuming you. I don't know if it makes any sense at all but...as a masochist, that hunger is what I fear...it is what motivates me...it is what I crave, need and embrace....and that "feeding" and the thought of providing that sustenance is the very thing that sustains me through the experience


Your Welcome....  And this makes complete sense!  I would add that the paradox is that in feeding that hunger ... that in the giving... you feel empowered by the experience as well.   Consumed and Empowered  all in one!

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 5:07:23 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		I figured out that the primarly reason I enjoy Sadism is very simple.

I'm an energy vampire. Which explains a great deal about why I feel supercharged during scenes, and it's so intense for me. It also explains exactly why I know when to stop.

When the energy conduit begins to close down, or feel sour, I stop liking the energy. So even if someone is more or less unresponsive... I still feel the connection. And if I feel I have taken more than my share, and I may be doing harm...............I'll immediately go to aftercare and begin returning some.

It took me many years to figure out why I was reacting, and acting, in ways that I do.....

Because it's simply instinctive and natural to me. I do it, because it's my nature.

I think a lot of Sadists are like this, it's hard wired in the genes. It's not something you know, just what you do.

Edited to add, it's also why I don't like public scening. All of the rest of you energy vampires are stealing MY energy, that I am releasing from the bottom!

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/19/2006 5:16:59 PM >

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 6:31:09 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s
this is the ultimate power exchange I mentioned earlier .. both parties feeding off each other both parties going totally animalistic in nature as they crave and feed off each other .... very well put Erin


Thank you...yes there is a sort feeding that takes place both ways.

quote:

KnightofMists
And this makes complete sense!  I would add that the paradox is that in feeding that hunger ... that in the giving... you feel empowered by the experience as well.   Consumed and Empowered  all in one!  


Empowered....yes!!!! It's really is a beautiful dance is it not?

quote:

Caretakr
When the energy conduit begins to close down, or feel sour, I stop liking the energy. So even if someone is more or less unresponsive... I still feel the connection. And if I feel I have taken more than my share, and I may be doing harm...............I'll immediately go to aftercare and begin returning some.   


This is interesting. Are you referring to when the sub "goes"?

You made it sound very simple here and I always envisioned a fierce battle between "good" and "evil"....your everyday Dominant self battling back the beast if you will. Like holding back a hungry dog who's just had a whiff of fresh blood. Not so?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 6:40:36 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
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Status: offline 		Good and evil?

No, that's far too trite and dramatic for such a simple transaction.

I'm just playing with nerve endings. Now, if I were vivisecting someone slowly, and cauterizing the wounds with a soldering iron-because I wanted to prolong thier agony-that would qualify as evil.  My people all walk away with minimal damage.

I excite a creature, I draw off the energy.  If I am a competent feeder, I give it enough to make it happy, and I get to do it again. If I am an incompetent feeder, I take too much and damage my creature- to the point that I don't get to feed again.

Unless I find another.

Everything we do in a relationship is some sort of transaction.

It's how you manage those transactions that make them sustainable.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/19/2006 6:57:16 PM >

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 9:42:51 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
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Status: offline 		Thank you Sensual lips, that was very informative for me to hear. I forgot, too that was an option; having someone's Dominat tell a thrid party how to gauge their known partner's pain level and reactions.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 9:48:50 PM   
SusanofO


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Status: offline 		Uh Huh. I understand. I just can't equate this with being "evil" if the person is not a known sociopath or wanted by police for criminal actions or something.
For me the main attraction to it has to do with feeling an extra intense connection, and knowing that the other person is also feeling an intense connection. I know that sounds too simple, probably - but I think it's the same thing you
are saying, really, Caretakr.

KoM, I appreciate your posts. I wasn't downing anyone for liking kicking. I love reading jamersthehuman rug's posts, and I know by his nic he is probably into that. It scares me, but I am really really new to all of this Sadistic stuff - have not done any of it. But the way it's been described by some on these boards, I found it very intriguing and did some reading on it, and thought about it a lot, and just decided one day, it was no big deal anymore (to me) and I'd like to know more. How people do that is, as usual, up to them. 

-Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 10:11:34 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 9:51:39 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am interested in this question pissdoll's statement brought out (to me anyway):

*Do some Sadists find they need higher and higher levels of  sadistic activity to feed their hunger? Is that common? Or is it pretty much it can go either way? I know this is probably individual, but maybe not. If anyone has opinions on that, I'd be very interested in hearing them.

Thanks much to all, who have replied. I appreciate very much the insight into this area I've been able to gain.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 10:12:46 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:08:50 PM   
Caretakr


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Joined: 6/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I am interested in this question pissdoll's statement brought out (to me anyway):

*Do some Sadists find they need higher and higher levels of  sadistic activity to feed their hunger? Is that common? Or is it pretty much it can go either way? I know this is proably individual, but maybe not. If anyone has opinions on that, I'd be very interested in hearing them.

Thnaks much to all, who have replied. I appreciate very much the insight into this area I've been able to gain.

- Susan


It's called "Tops disease" Susan. Do a search.

It usually comes from an overblown sense of entitlement. The solution is to either stick a pin in it-or get out before it's too late. And bottoms can be just as bad with escalation.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/19/2006 10:09:20 PM >

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:09:35 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I should clarify Susan...the "evil" that I speak of is not the sadist...but the beast that dwells within him. In talking to sadists, including one's I have known intimately....some of them tell me that they know that they "could" go places that no human ever should if they didn't reign themselves in. One once told me that he could cut nipples off, even whole breasts....clits....sew eyelids shut...use nails as bondage restraints....those things had been images, fantasies in his mind....but the way that he put it was that his knowledge of how far he "could" go only further instilled in him his sense of responsibility not to "go there". He described it as his "evil" darkside.

We all have fantasies that we know are best left as fantasy and never taken to reality. While yours and mine may not be nearly that extreme...I am certain there are other sadists out there who do have that intensity of fantasy.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:15:26 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		I can see myself as an SS Guard tossing zyklon b into gas chambers. Very clearly, in my minds eye. And having a cigarette, while I listen to the screams. It's an interesting way to connect to different realities.

But because I can-doesn't mean I am foolish enough to go there for real.

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:19:10 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, I wasn't even referring to your post, mistoferin (truly). I read the word "evil" (it's late and I was scanning this thread, not reading, really), and I guess I was sort of making a verbal internalized remark because this stuff rerally did used to scare me. I have read about people who have (and some stories by) people who have extra hard fantasies. That they know they can't -would not do them is a reassurance.

I have some that would probably reallly shock some people if they knew (branding, stuff involving suspension, other things) and I have absolutely no idea where at all they came from - which, much of the time, makes me believe there is some higher authority (power) out there that gives some people thier "urges" (for whatever reason) to begin with. Because I know I am not an evil person. But that's another thread. It's interesting for me to think about, even if there may be no definitive answer I could ever understand.

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 11:19:04 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 10:23:06 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Oh, I wasn't even referring to your post, mistoferin (truly). I read the word "evil" (it's late and i was scanning this thread, not reading, really), and I guess I was sort of making a verbal interbalized remark because this stuff rerally did used to scare me. I have read about people who have (and some stories by) people who have extra hard fantasies. That they know they can't/would not do them is a reassurance.

I have some that would probably reallly shock some people if they knew (branding, stuff involving suspension, other things) and I have absolutely no idea where at all they came from; which, much of the time, makes me believe there is some higher authority (power) out there that gives some people thier "urges" (for whatever reason) to begin with. Because I know I am not an evil person. But that's another thread. It's interesting for me to think about, even if there may be no definitive answer I could ever understand.

- Susan  


We have fostered duality, from a refusal to accept nature as both kind and cruel.

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