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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:25:39 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

One of them seems to be motivated by the desire to provoke a response within you...the other by a desire to provoke a response within themselves.

On one hand you have the sadist who will, as a part of a scene, take a whip to you and delight in your yelps in a "I bet that hurt...ha ha ha...." funny kind of way, "oooo isn't that a pretty mark".. They get off on your vocalization and their ability to provoke a response. They provide painful stimuli not so much because it is their desire to do so...but because they know that it is what will drive you and they enjoy the response. When you are providing him with adequate response...that is when his scene begins to wind down.

On the other hand you have the sadist who makes his sadism the scene. His hunger for your pain is the driving force. He will be very much in touch. He will be very much intune with the rise of your heartbeat...the laboring of your breathing....the expression on your face and the fear and agony in your eyes. At each level of intensity his hunger is not satiated but grows. His pleasure doesn't begin to take hold until you are at your edge....and the further he can slowly take you there and keep you there has him salivating for more. When you are providing adequate response...that is when his scene starts.


Reading this made me shiver.  These are both Me.  The first paragraph is Me with a new or casual play mate.  Seeing their reactions, feeding off of their emotions and energy.  I delight in seeing them raise up on their toes or take a tighter hold of the cuffs.  Watching them, driving them harder when they are on the edge and backing off just before they are about to fall off of it.  I am gleeful and playful and fun in this situation, very talkative and usually laughing.
 
The second paragraph is Me with playing with someone I know well, someone I'm close to or intimate with.  I still feed off the emotions and energy but I'm much darker, much more concentrated on the edge.  My intent is to keep them ON the edge, not backing off and not going over for as long as I possibly can.  I'm more deliberate, more precise, and barely speak except for maybe a whisper in the ear of My victim.  I don't notice anyone or anything around us, there's only us.
 
How far can a sadist go? the possibilities are endless.... 



_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:28:25 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		That paragraph at the top, I just re-read it, and it made me realize the growth there is in getting to know another person as far as this kind of activity goes. Thanks for pointing that out.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to yourMissTress)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:35:00 AM   
pissdoll


Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline 		i lived with an extreme sadist for almost 10 years.  the problem was, as time went on, it took more and more of my pain for him to "get off" (so to speak).
it was like watching a junkie in a downward spiral, except the one who was being hurt was me.
toward the end, he wasn't happy until he was able to break bone, or permanently damage body parts.  there was no pleasure left on my end.  i finally had to leave for my life.
when i met him, if someone had told me that things would have turned out that way, i never would have believed it.
most sadists will never cross the line.  but some will.  you can put your trust in someone and "give" yourself to him/her, but you still have to keep clarity and the ability to "pull the plug" if they go over the edge...even if that person DOES own you.
i would love to be in a relationship with someone as intense as him again.  there is a lot of seriously f'd up stuff that i adore.  but i don't know that i will ever allow myself to again.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:35:41 AM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

On the other hand you have the sadist who makes his sadism the scene. His hunger for your pain is the driving force. He will be very much in touch. He will be very much intune with the rise of your heartbeat...the laboring of your breathing....the expression on your face and the fear and agony in your eyes. At each level of intensity his hunger is not satiated but grows. His pleasure doesn't begin to take hold until you are at your edge....and the further he can slowly take you there and keep you there has him salivating for more. When you are providing adequate response...that is when his scene starts.

You have very nicely put into words that which I could not express. This, to me, is the purest form of sadism ( just my opinion  though ).
Chris once told me that for him to continue after he has seen a girl reach that point, if very much like you said; to become an animal, slowly losing control. It's not just about being able to push US past our own limits, but also pushing themselves without stepping over that very thin line.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:43:53 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

ExSteel, I think all Dominants must be to a degree Sadists, too - otherwise why are they involved in bdsm at all? And I think all submissives and slaves are to a degree masochists for the same reason.

While you're not alone in that idea, there are plenty of people who will completely disagree with you.  There are dominants who are not sadists and submissives and slaves who are not masochists.

Let's also not forget that a sadists partner can very easily be a non masochist.  If a sadist simply wants to hurt someone, a non masochist submissive can be the perfect person for the job.  I am not a masochist but I have the odd habit of attaching myself to heavy sadists.  For me, taking the pain is about service, not enjoyment of the pain itself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:45:57 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Oh pissdoll, I am so sorry that happened to you, really. But it is so good you wrote about it, because it's one important thing that hasn't been said yet. It crossed my mind that someone's thresh-hold might get higher, but only vaguely. Maybe we should talk about that if anyone else has comments about whether or not that happens and what they do about it (the Sadists, I mean). I know I am with you. I do not want broken bones.

Last night, I had a dream - maybe it is related to all of the bdsm stuff I've been reading about lately. it was about a limit I never even thought I'd have to mention on a limits list of mine, because I'd think it would be obvious, but some peope apparently love this. Trampling. And kicking. I had a dream I was being kicked, really hard, while I was lying on the floor; in the head, in the ribs, and I was bawling my eyes out and it would not stop. All I could see were feet, no face. I woke up. If that ever happened, I'd be gone. I don't want to be beat up, kicked and trampled. Not only is it too brutal for me, there is no art to that at all (although I must admit, that is a minor sidepoint, and hardly worth noting). 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 12:09:19 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to pissdoll)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:49:53 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well, Yes, LA. I did forget about people who are into D/s and not S/m at all.
For them, this is not the case. I forgot about that. I am really into the S/m side of thinking lately, although I sure cannot put my finger on why. I am having a curiosity bout lately, about it, for the past 2 months.

*I think I have masochistic tendencies, but am not a full-blown masochist, as there are levels and types of pain I cannot picture myself enduring and enjoying it. And my choices are pretty odd, too (who knows why they are? I have no experience at much of this at all). Love the idea of branding, but hate knives (tho' I know the reason for the hating knives). Like whips (even bullwhips are some kind of a turn-on, but have no experience there) but don't want needles (yikes)! Maybe this is all stuff I could grow to like, but I don't know why these little quirks off the bat exist.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 12:44:42 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:52:24 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Well, Yes, LA. I did forget about people who are into D/s and not M/s at all.
For them, this is not the case. I for got about that. I am really into the S/m side of thinking lately, although I sure cannot put my finger on why. I am having a curiosity bout lately, about it, for the past 2 months.

- Susan

It would disturb me when I fantasized about pain scenes, knowing I didn't want the pain.

I realized I was craving the attention and connection.  The only time my owner at the time would give me focused attention and affection was after an intense pain scene.  The two became connected for me.  I wasn't wanting the pain, I was wanting the attention and affections- which I could only get by going through the pain first.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 11:53:50 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Oh yes, I do think there is some deeper level of connection I am craving, but that for me has to do with the intensity of the experience for both people. I think I would like knowing how much they like it, and some weird part of me thinks they wouldn't want to go 'that far' if they didn't think it was  worth the "extra bother", and that I would feel, therefore, extra special somehow - even though this last idea, even I know is probably complete selective delusion on my part. Connection is a big part of it, for me LA.

_ Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 12:04:30 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 12:05:19 PM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with all the wonderful answers to a truly wonderful question.  I'd like to add a few of the additional I had while reading all the posts:

When adrenalin kicks in, a Sadist's senses become heightened with improved sight, smell, touch, hearing and taste.  It's a scientific fact and helps Sadist be more aware and tuned into what's happening with their partner.  One the other hand, adrenalin is also secreted during a life or death "flight or fight" reaction, therefore a Sadist must be able to maintain control over their responses as their strength, endurance and stamina tend to increase proportionate to adrenalin secretion which is, in turn, proportionate to the level of activity that's executed.

Therefore, it is mandatory to keep close watch on a play partner but more importantly exchange medical information including  ALL conditions and ALL medications before you start playing.  Exchange is the key word here; Sadists have been known to pass out during play, believe it or not, sometimes from the sheer excitement of it all. 

During play, I often ask my partner, "on a scale of 1 to 10, where are you?"  This temparature-taking practice isnt
exclusive to pain tolerance for me.  That's why I dont include a phrase in reference to pain, only.  Much harm can be done emotionally, mentally and psychologically because one can never control what goes on in another person's head and I have no desire to tap into any of these areas unless carefully negotiated beforehand.  Also, I do this for my own safety as well.  I once witnessed a masochist "turn" on a Sadist and eventhough they were both women, the scene I witnessed wasn't very pretty.

I hope I've added some information to think about.  Be safe, always.

LeatherBentOne

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 12:08:00 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you, Ex Steel. You are so nice.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 12:16:15 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		LeatherBentOne,

I really like the "on a scale of 1-10, where are you now?" question as a guage to where someone is as far as feeling pain. It's so simple, takes so little time, and is so descriptive. Regardless of the subjectivity of it, if one knows a partner, i'd think they'd know what a "2" or a "8" means. Once I asked a guy, about a year ago, how hard he thought he whipped people on a ten point scale and he said he'd never been asked that before, and I found that hard to believe. I imagined people "playing" with him, and him just diving into it blindly. He said he was a 7-8. My next question was "how do you know" (I was considering this person for a partner), and he said "my aren't we being inquisitive today", and really never answered my question (we ended up not getting together). All I wanted was an idea of details re: What he thought "7-8" meant.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/19/2006 12:26:35 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 12:59:41 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I think all pain should be pleasurable.
One way I use to determine a sub's pain threshold is caning.
You can obviously control the intensity greatly from gentle taps to full swings.
You can work your way up in intensity and judge by the sub's reaction just how far you can go.
I'm not much of a sadist myself. I wouldn't get off on inflicting unwanted pain on a sub or slave just for the sake of doing it.
Permanent injuries and broken bones are criminal behavior in my book.
I think any Dom or Master worth their salt would want to protect his sub or slave.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 1:11:42 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne
During play, I often ask my partner, "on a scale of 1 to 10, where are you?" 


I've been thinking on this since I read it and I am kind of torn on this. I don't think it's a bad idea...but I don't think it would work well for me. I do like a Dominant to stay in touch...but I think that if I was asked to "rate" pain or emotion it would pull me out of my own focus. I go deep within myself to achieve my "space" and I think for me it would be counterproductive to have to stop and answer anything that I had to give real thought to. I have even had something as simple as "Are you ok?" feel like an interruption of my own process.

I would make a suggestion though to those who would wish to use this technique. Instead of a "10" scale I would go with a "5" scale. Something I learned along the way through many injuries...lol. Many hospitals are now converting to a "5" scale because when assessing pain there really isn't much difference between a "3 and a 4"...or a "5 and a 6"....or a "7 and an 8". A "5" scale is much more accurate. "1" being very mild, "2" being uncomfortable, "3" middle ground, "4" definitely painful and "5" at the top end of what is tolerable.  

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 1:33:30 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		Quoted from Erin:

On the other hand you have the sadist who makes his sadism the scene. His hunger for your pain is the driving force. He will be very much in touch. He will be very much intune with the rise of your heartbeat...the laboring of your breathing....the expression on your face and the fear and agony in your eyes. At each level of intensity his hunger is not satiated but grows. His pleasure doesn't begin to take hold until you are at your edge....and the further he can slowly take you there and keep you there has him salivating for more. When you are providing adequate response...that is when his scene starts.

you hit my Sadism right on the head Erin . you got the beast the dwells deep within me needing to roar right now ... this is the ultimate in power exchanges here .. often this kind of Sadist will also carry his sadism into sex as well and often find more pleasure in a savage fucking as opposed to the more sensual sexual encounter.

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 1:40:59 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		I once talked to someone about the difference between a pain slut . and a pain junkie . it appears it rears its head on both sides of the coin . there are those who need the pain so bad they cannot feel complete without it wether giving it or recieving it ... those are pain junkies the "pain slut" will crave it . and find pleasure in it . but she can survive without it as well ..... she will not beg to be hurt or recieve pain like the junkie will . I knew of a girl who got so addicted to the pain that after a good session she would beg her master to start kicking her this just seems a bit exxcessive when your asking someone to take thier feet and deal blows that may obviously break bones .. I dunno I love dishing out pain ..... but ... I am not gonna go tothe extent that someone could get permanently injured from it no matter how much they beg

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 1:41:53 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s
 you got the beast the dwells deep within me needing to roar right now ...


Well shucks....wish I was closer...lol.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Tamerofwild1s)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 1:44:20 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		lol ... me too

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 3:18:57 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin


On the other hand you have the sadist who makes his sadism the scene. His hunger for your pain is the driving force. He will be very much in touch. He will be very much intune with the rise of your heartbeat...the laboring of your breathing....the expression on your face and the fear and agony in your eyes. At each level of intensity his hunger is not satiated but grows. His pleasure doesn't begin to take hold until you are at your edge....and the further he can slowly take you there and keep you there has him salivating for more. When you are providing adequate response...that is when his scene starts.



Susan... Within this paragraph you will find your answer!  "How far can a True Sadist Really go?" The Sadist goes until the Hunger is sedated!  Which leads to another question... "How does one sedate one's hunger without devasting the land that feeds the hunger?"  I think you will find most have been answering the latter question and not the one you asked.

Erin... Very expressive words! that shows you have a deep understanding and experience of what it is to be the catalyst to fullfilling the hunger and craving of another.  Thank you for your post.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 7/19/2006 3:19:56 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: How Far Can A True Sadist Really Go? Just Curious - 7/19/2006 3:22:59 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

...but I think that if I was asked to "rate" pain or emotion it would pull me out of my own focus.


and likely cause you to feel more pain???  mmmmmmmm now that wouldn't be good would it  *G*

mmmmmmmm pondering a scale of maybe 100  *G*

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 60
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