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RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 6:19:21 PM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I have a safeword but I haven't used it. I prefer to yelp, wiggle, scream, beg, and generally make enough of a fuss that he stops. It's fun that way and I think he is capable of knowing me well enough to know when he has gone too far and needs to pull back.

The safeword is for an emergency. If for some reason my actions or facial expressions don't work I have a word I can say. I also have a prop of some sort if I'm unable to speak. Nothing wrong with being prepared

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 6:51:30 PM   
MMMMudd


Posts: 83
Joined: 7/16/2006
Status: offline 		I've got to weigh in on the side of safe words/dropping an object. The more of a novice your submissive is, the more important. A hog tied submissive with all their adrenaline going can sometimes get into a state of panic and hurt them selves. A person can get too "excited" and hyperventilate, "Butt Boy you've been holding your breath for 20 minutes." There is a bit of a learning curve to any kind of play.  Granted when you've been a collared slave couple for 20 years, you should both have a handle on it, but for first dates and first scenes, no should really mean no.
Mudd  

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 6:52:41 PM   
michaelGA2


Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		i got one

OUCH!!!


LOL


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Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to Master96)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 6:59:08 PM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i got one

OUCH!!!


LOL




LOL, OUCH wouldn't work for me if I used safewords, usually end up giggling if/when I say it while getting beat <grin>.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to michaelGA2)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 7:06:23 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		While your theory might...and that is a pretty big might...save you some troubles legally in some rare situation...I can only see this as being valid at a public party or when a witness is present....unless of course you video tape all of your scenes.

WyrdRich made an analogy of a fire. This is precisely one of the reasons I don't see any real validity in safe words. You can be sitting there lighting sparklers in your living room and think you're ok because you see that extinguisher over there hanging on the wall. All of a sudden the room is on fire but you don't panic until you reach for that extinguisher and find it empty.

Safe words provide a false sense of security...especially to those who are new or new to their partner. It is not safe to think that a word is going to save you. Your safe word will be completely ineffective when you are tightly bound at the hands of a psychopath.

As Merc also stated....how many submissives can think of and verbalize that safe word from the murky mist of subspace? I know I sure as hell can't. Will your new Dom who may be as inexperienced as yourself recognize your subspace? will he know that he should stop? will he know that you just moved wrong and pulled or tore a muscle?...just had an ovarian cyst rupture? No....because you are flying through purple skies and can't remember that stupid tropical fruit he told you to call out and it feels like you just swallowed a bale of cotton and you can't get any words to come through it. So if he's not paying attention...doesn't know how to read you....or recognize your subspace...or recognize a problem...or just plain doesn't want to stop when you do....guess what? You just might be in trouble.

If you are still within the conciousness levels of communicating....communication works just fine and you don't have to put it into code. Errors in judgement about who you should have trusted to tie you up will not be helped by a word...I don't care what word. Errors on the part of a Dominant who is playing beyond his capabilities and understanding will not be helped by a code word any more than they would be by simple communication.

My ex Master would stop a scene if I so much as breathed wrong. I have myself stopped a scene with the word Sir. Granted it was how I said Sir...and the fact that I repeated it in quick succession several times....but Sir was what came to mind when things went south. I doubt that I could have remember to scream banana at that moment. If a Dominant is paying attention it is not hard to pick up on the fact that something has gone amiss.

Merc is also right in that there is an area of your brain where you are storing that word...remember banana...banana...banana...and an area in your brain that is rating the pain and trying to determine if it is banana time yet. That is indeed a part of your brain that you are holding back. When I scene...I want to let go....I want to fly...and I don't want any part of me worrying about bananas.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 7:53:12 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~fast reply~

No safeword here.  Once I thought my ankle was about to break and I shrieked  "ANKLE!!!" because really the only thing going on in my head at that very second was ANKLE!!! and he pulled back so that my ankle didn't break after all and we kept going. 

It's not a safe word though.  He could have chosen to break my ankle if he wanted to, and then I'd be in a cast for awhile.

Typically the change in my cries/moans/yelps clue him in pretty good if something is wrong - gag or no gag.  It's rare such a thing happens, but 100% of the time it has happened, he adjusted immediately.  So far nothing has ever occurred which actually stopped our activity. 


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 8:07:43 PM   
Kree


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		I do not like safe words and do not use them.  To me, it is better to know the person you are playing with and totally focus on them and their reactions.  I have seen some submissives/bottoms that would not use the safe word if you cranked a chain saw.  They seem to have a point to prove about what they can take.  I have always felt that some dominants that use safe words are too self involved to watch the reactions, the breathing, or the physical signs to allow themselves an excuse when they go too far.  "She didnt use her safe word, it isnt my fault her ass fell off." 
Perhaps they have a place in casual play when someone has little experience and doesnt really know the person and their signs, but if that be the case, why even walk out on the skinny limb that can lead to injury?  I have always felt that a scene is like docking a cruise ship.  You can go slowly, build the scene, carefully watch what is going on and what "signs" you are seeing, then find the level that works and know that next time, you can go farther.  The ship returns to the dock safely when proper procedures are followed.  Or, you can act like a drunken ship captain, go full speed ahead and wonder why the ship hits the dock and sinks.   

Safe words are a choice, use them or dont use them, but do not allow the safe word to blind you to the clues being constantly thrown off by the submissive/bottom.

edited: damn typos

< Message edited by Kree -- 7/19/2006 8:09:30 PM >

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Author of "Nytewhispers"

Power whispers, it has no reason to yell

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 9:02:21 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear mistoferin, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
When the hanky drops the dominant checks in.  However, it is a non-verbal signal and doesn't have to be used but, it is useful if you're gagged or a person is mute.
 
Of course a dominant is to be tuned into the submissives however, I am also thinking of new dominants in the range of discovery and learning.  To see the drop, at least the dominant can notice the association and learn their partner's 'body' behavior and such when they do get into 'sub space.'
 
Even if not into sub space yet, if there is an issue where there needs to be a check in/communication--it is there and in a noise filled area don't need to rely on their ears.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 9:08:14 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

mistoferin said:  While your theory might...and that is a pretty big might...save you some troubles legally in some rare situation...I can only see this as being valid at a public party or when a witness is present....unless of course you video tape all of your scenes.


No, you have no understanding of the value of evidence.  The possible safety in a safe word I refer to has no need of a corraborating witness or videotape (although such things are nice to get in a defense case). 

In fact, if both Top and bottom told the prosecutors about the existence of a safe word, I think it would create a very convincing evidentiary burden AGAINST prosecution.  The standard of proof in a criminal case is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the existence of a safeword surely would introduce reasonable doubt.   I haven't had occasion to use my theory, tho (and I hope I never do).  Juries are made up of ordinary people, and you might be on one, and you might be the one that doesn't accept the theory.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 9:15:48 PM   
Owned1


Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline 		The only time i have come close to using a safe word was my first experience with a cane in the hands of a very sadistic Dom.  We had actually finished playing and i was still flying so he thought he would see how it would go,  THAT REALLY F**KING HURT THANK YOU SIR in the loudest voice i could at the time.  Luckily for me he was real and not into the dog and pony show nonsense and he fell to the floor in hysterics.  We both saw the fun in the response, that is once my booty stopped yelling at me,  btw i still hate canes  :)

owned

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~~in His Chains i am free~~

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 9:17:19 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

quote:

mistoferin said:  While your theory might...and that is a pretty big might...save you some troubles legally in some rare situation...I can only see this as being valid at a public party or when a witness is present....unless of course you video tape all of your scenes.


No, you have no understanding of the value of evidence.  The possible safety in a safe word I refer to has no need of a corraborating witness or videotape (although such things are nice to get in a defense case). 

In fact, if both Top and bottom told the prosecutors about the existence of a safe word, I think it would create a very convincing evidentiary burden AGAINST prosecution.  The standard of proof in a criminal case is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the existence of a safeword surely would introduce reasonable doubt.   I haven't had occasion to use my theory, tho (and I hope I never do).  Juries are made up of ordinary people, and you might be on one, and you might be the one that doesn't accept the theory.

E.


Respectfully, how would it be any different for the same two people to walk into the prosecutor's office and state, for the record, that what they did was done consentually? I think a jury of "ordinary" people would understand adult communication far better than they would understand "he gave me the code word banana to use if I wanted him to stop".

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 9:23:59 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I do realize there will be those who won't use safe words and or safe codes such as dropping objects.
 
I offer safe words and or codes to those who are really new to everything, so that we can get onto the same page, as anybody will have a different opinion what hard, medium and easy/light is.  So, I want to adjust myself as to make it a fun experience for them. 
 
In my many years Topping novices, giving what I call a Whitman's Sampler, to which is more of a show and tell phase before I really do any scene with a novice; I have never had to use a safe word or safe signal. 
 
I do enjoy working with those who have hearing, sight and verbal issues.  The community at large sometimes over look those with sensory issues and, just like a lot of BDSM clubs don't have handicap access--I do think about such people and don't wish to see them excluded.  Not everybody knows sign language so what then? -- So, visual or sounds, and or any other means available is required to make up for the disadvantages they have and something we (in general terms) take for granted.
 
I put to text, to which may be the "ah" moment for some lass or lad, who has issues beyond the active scene world, such as dealing with a sensory issue that thwarts normal interaction.
 
Just a thought--not everybody has sight, hearing and or oral abilities.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Kree)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 9:35:20 PM   
leakylee


Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		The very very first time I scened I thought I was all bad, had my safe word all picked out. I hit subspace within like 5 minutes.I dont think I have ever really thought about it sense. When trying or expeirmenting with new things "whoaaa" (hehe) was generally enough to back things down. IE The first time for figging..grrrr..You know when your wonderful one reads something that they just wanna try a bit...deep breath....Most of those times ended with giggles and hysteria. But when all the serious throw down starts, my brain is useless. So there fore the practicality is just shot. Unless there is the individual who is just enjoying themselves poking you out of said mental bless. That of course is for another thread, and I am still unsure whether it is done in a caring manner of just to delight themselves. But I digress.

I dont use them.


lee

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I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to Master96)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 10:33:46 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

~fast reply~

No safeword here.  Once I thought my ankle was about to break and I shrieked  "ANKLE!!!" because really the only thing going on in my head at that very second was ANKLE!!! and he pulled back so that my ankle didn't break after all and we kept going. 

It's not a safe word though.  He could have chosen to break my ankle if he wanted to, and then I'd be in a cast for awhile.

Typically the change in my cries/moans/yelps clue him in pretty good if something is wrong - gag or no gag.  It's rare such a thing happens, but 100% of the time it has happened, he adjusted immediately.  So far nothing has ever occurred which actually stopped our activity. 



I think this should just get reposted every time this subject comes up.  The perfect example of how communication REALLY works in a scene- and how it has NOTHING to do with how much you trust someone or how awesomely perfect they are.

Shit happens, you deal with it, and hopefully go on to have more fun together.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 10:39:25 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Theoretically, I always allow safewords.

Theoretically, the bottom can use one at any time.

But do we WANT to?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 10:44:24 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Theoretically, I always allow safewords.

Theoretically, the bottom can use one at any time.

But do we WANT to?

That's the problem- we've put so much emotional baggage on a communication tool that it loses its point completely.

Safewords shouldn't have anything to do with how you feel ABOUT the safeword.  They are there to say "Hey, somethings up!" Nothing more, and nothing less.  Once you add other things onto it, then it becomes more dangerous to use than not.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 10:44:48 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		And by the by...........

I once knew a girl who's safeword was "lawsuit!"

Very seldom ignored.

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 10:46:41 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Theoretically, I always allow safewords.

Theoretically, the bottom can use one at any time.

But do we WANT to?

That's the problem- we've put so much emotional baggage on a communication tool that it loses its point completely.

Safewords shouldn't have anything to do with how you feel ABOUT the safeword.  They are there to say "Hey, somethings up!" Nothing more, and nothing less.  Once you add other things onto it, then it becomes more dangerous to use than not.


Umm hmm, the same way many insist on attaching emotional baggage to control dynamics.

Makes it all of ok, if it's lovey dovey.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 10:58:55 PM   
thegunslinger


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Status: offline 		My sub and I have safewords, this is a question of two people in a relationship, if you're going to be trying out new things, sometimes they don't work. They're needs to be safe words in place, or even non-verbal queues to let your partner know "this is not acceptable" Playing without a safeword to me is absolutely dangerous, because unless your perfect, they're might be times when you're going to screw up.

_____________________________

"The essence of domination is to take another's power and then use it for mutual pleasure." - John Warren

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Safe word… - 7/19/2006 11:08:59 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

~fast reply~

No safeword here.  Once I thought my ankle was about to break and I shrieked  "ANKLE!!!" because really the only thing going on in my head at that very second was ANKLE!!! and he pulled back so that my ankle didn't break after all and we kept going. 

It's not a safe word though.  He could have chosen to break my ankle if he wanted to, and then I'd be in a cast for awhile.

Typically the change in my cries/moans/yelps clue him in pretty good if something is wrong - gag or no gag.  It's rare such a thing happens, but 100% of the time it has happened, he adjusted immediately.  So far nothing has ever occurred which actually stopped our activity. 



I think this should just get reposted every time this subject comes up.  The perfect example of how communication REALLY works in a scene- and how it has NOTHING to do with how much you trust someone or how awesomely perfect they are.

Shit happens, you deal with it, and hopefully go on to have more fun together.


I trust you'll post the link to the thread should the subject come up again

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 60
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