hizgeorgiapeach
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mistoferin
I would really love it if someone who wants, needs, uses or requires a safe word would explain why a made up and agreed upon code word would be more effective or superior than normal communication. Not talking about don't.......stop.....don't...stop...don't.stop...don't stop kind of communication. I just don't see any reason or possible instance where code words would be more effective than simple, honest communication.
Erin, while I agree with you in theory - my experience has been that those who ignore codes will also ignore normal communication. Perhaps it's just me, but I've come to a place over the years where - quite frankly - I'm more willing to trust someone's willingness to listen to ANY sort of communication in scene if they aren't opposed to the use of code. It's an indication to me that simply telling them "that's not a good spot, it's to tender right now" or "Gotta stop, have a cramp in my thigh" is going to be listened to and heeded, rather than being considered an attempt to manipulate them or rob them of control.
(Ever heard the saying "Once bitten, twice shy"? It can very definately be applied to my own experience and subsequent insistance on playing only with those who are willing to abide by safewords.)
quote:
Original : Agirl
The whole idea of having a safeword and then having it ignored as a *manipulation tool* is just silly. I can't see the point of making an effort to agree something, merely to have it ignored....unless you have an *agreement* that safewords are to be *recognised*at the dominant's discretion.........which renders them useless anyhow as they aren't worth the breath it takes to utter them.
Silly perhaps, but I've had it personally happen. I do not (at this point) consider the person who did so to be a top, or anything even remotely resembling a "dominant" person. In hindsight, my guess is that communication in scene was agreed upon so that I would consent to scene/submit - it was an empty agreement which he never intended to carry out. It was, in a manner of speaking, a bit of extra bait in a trap that he had set for those whom he considered choice prey - anyone submissive with masocistic desires. We started with a safeword, and after several months he suddenly decreed that since I'd never needed it up to that point I would never need it and was therefore no longer allowed one. It was his contention that he knew me well enough to Always effectively guage my reactions, and that as the dominant it was his decision how far things went, period end of discussion. It didn't take long after that point in time for him to start deliberately pushing me Way past the point of reasonable. Nor to start damaging me in the name of "maintaining control" in scene. I learned in a hurry not to protest or try to subtly change things - it only led to further abusive behavior on his part, and beatings that had nothing to do with scening. I also learned in a hurry not to try and talk to anyone in the BDSM community who knew us both about what was going on - after all, I was a submissive and masocist, so I "Obviously" was simply being disobedient, bratty, and unsubmissive - and lying about enjoying pain in scene - if I ever considered what he did to be "to much" or "out of line." (please note heavy tone of sarcasm with that last comment.)
He didn't listen to Any form of communication, come to think of it - in scene or out. His STATED opinion was that if things were going the way he expected, he had no reason to communicate with me - and if they weren't going as expected, then "ignoring" me by refusing to communicate was simply punishment. Either way, communication was non-existant.
quote:
Original : Darkinshadows
I do not know if that was possibly aimed at my post - but I wanted to just clarify if it was. (I am making an assumption it was me, as I am the one who made the quote about having safewords - so I apologise if I am wrong)
It must have been, since I couldn't remember whose post it was that mentioned it. (Not enough caffine in the system yet!)
quote:
Original : Darkinshadows
Maybe you are an incredibly controlled person, but you can never say never - no matter how much one may protest they can. You may at some point slip into a space that you lose sense of communication and your safeword will become totally useless. Communication is vital.
I don't say it will Never happen - but I do maintain that I don't anticipate it happening, simply because 20+ years of SM scening on various levels has taught me a great deal about just how much it takes to push me to that point. That point is going to be different for any two given individuals, highly dependant upon to many factors to easily calculate or comprehensively list. Could there come a second time that I get pushed that hard and that far? Certainly. It's bloody unlikely, since it's only happened once in my personal experience, but there's still a remote possibility of it.
However - Any point that a person slips deeply enough into a non-communicative state for a safeword to be useless is also going to find ANY sort of intelligent, comprehensible, meaningful communication to be useless. Why? Because (in my opinion) it is simply another Means of Communication in scene. Yes, communication is vital. That being the case, why should I (or anyone) rob myself of another tool in the communications toolbox, out of some sense that it will never be useful and/or needed? I don't use a 1/32 phillips head screwdriver very often, but I keep one in my toolbox anyway - on the off chance that I will need it and find a use for it. I'd rather have it in the box, ready to hand, than find myself without it at a critical point when it's the only thing to get the job done.
I don't advocate them being the ONLY tool in the toolbox. One tool simply isn't going to get the job done - regardless of whether that's communication in scene or building a house or fixing the car or making dinner. I don't advocate them being relied on as THE means of making certain that things go well. If my post came across that way - that's my fault for not making myself more clear previously. I will likely always advocate them as One of Many Methods to keep in mind and keep available to ourselves.
< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 7/20/2006 7:42:17 AM >
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RE: Safe word… - 
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) - a safeword alone and being taught to rely on one because it is a 'must have' is dangerous territory. I don't see people saying that 'needing' one is bad - but having one, just for the sake of having one is dangerous advice to any new - or old - practioner of BDSM.
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