RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue

RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (Full Version)

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CodeOfSilence -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 1:37:44 PM)
Fascinating enough abortions are actually falling as per 1000 women in the US and the UK. Abortions are also done in the lower stages of development more often than before. Though who knows what the reason is for this. More lesbian relationships? Decrease of male sperm quality and quantity? Or perhaps actually more prudence? Either case the more the media writes about it the less of a problem it seems to actually be.

Termyn8or -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 2:06:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Svale This whole discussion does not seem to be about abortion or not, but how you can punish women who get pregnant. Quite a disgusting idea. Women who get pregnant due to responsible family planning and wants to keep the baby, doesn't get punished. I believe in prevention is better than cure. So to have a penalty for unplanned pregnancies will make people more responsible. I truly believe this will greatly reduced unplanned pregnancy. The end goal is to have everybody have babies because they love having babies and they want them! Why do you care ? I don't. I think there should be abortomats on every corner and they should just be able to get up on the chair, put their feet in the stirrups and have the problem gone. The idea that a fetus is a human, well in a way. And in a way abortion is murder but I am all for it. And I think the government should pay for it because it costs less in the long run. Sorry. But then we have this other little idea of mine you might like. They are told straight out that they can have ONE MORE free abortion, but it comes with a non-negotiable feature - a tubal ligation. If you want a second abortion, you either pay for it or you will never need another one. It is not an excuse that they are young. If they and their boyfriend want to have kids later then pay for the fucking abortion, that way YOU commit the murder. This should help to quiet the religious, which you seem to be even if it is humanism. Life is cheap, that is why there are so many people on this planet. Seven billion is too many. And, while there are laws against shooting abortionists, there is no law against going to abortion clinics and offering the would be clients money to carry their fetus to term and then adopting the kid. YOU can support it for twenty years, NOT the taxpayer. YOU can also pay all medical expenses. Greta, this is the US. We have womanizers and sluts. This is how it is. Half the marriages end in divorce and now many people don't even bother. People are abusive assholes nobody could live with and their girlfriends are even worse. Nobody has any fucking money anymore except about 5 % of the people, but they are still horny. And the sluts will fuck the guys with the biggest dick, with no regard to offspring. And they were borne of the same. Illiterate sire and incubator that cannot even be called Parents. No fucking education, and what of it there is does not even describe what the fuck happens to the dumb cunt when she gets pregnant at 15. Just says don't fuck, and those are the states where they got married at 13. People are devolving. People used to get married at 13 in this country and grew up raising a family, working the farm and whatever else, taking responsibility. THOSE DAYS ARE OVER. Even rich people, republicans against abortion until their mistress (I mean Woman on the side, not a Mistress) gets knocked up. Then it is time for a D & C. See, that is not an abortion, it is just clearing out whatever that lump or whatever might be in the uterus. Yeah, whatever that might be. But the rich girls would be able to afford that, or their Daddies or Daddies. Poor girls who actually want to put out to find a guy who will take them the fuck out of the sire and incubator's houses are alot more common. The kind of people we are talking about here should not reproduce. Years ago a couple sued a hospital for failing to detect Tay Sach's disease in their fetus. Sued for lifetime support because quite frankly, they would have aborted. I want to see them look at the kid and tell him/her that if they knew how it would be they would have murdered them. How would any kid grow up raised by people who would rather have them dead ? So see, you have to realize what you're dealing with. Animals sometime eat their young, and I think the ones who look like humans should be allowed to, no matter what. The real humans would never consider it. T^T

Phydeaux -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 3:38:51 PM)
How about this as an improvement. Implement what you said in addition: When you go on welfare, male or female you accept reversible sterilization.. Being sterilized is free. If you want to reverse it - you pay for it.

dcnovice -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 3:43:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux How about this as an improvement. Implement what you said in addition: When you go on welfare, male or female you accept reversible sterilization.. Being sterilized is free. If you want to reverse it - you pay for it. Wow. Just wow.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 4:41:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux How about this as an improvement. Implement what you said in addition: When you go on welfare, male or female you accept reversible sterilization.. Being sterilized is free. If you want to reverse it - you pay for it. I would be on board with that with one (possible) caveat: Removing the reversible sterilization should also be free of charge but it would be a message sent to the welfare state: "Thank you for your help. I'm ready to be productive (economically), now" Michael

Greta75 -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 4:45:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Why do you care ? I don't. I think there should be abortomats on every corner and they should just be able to get up on the chair, put their feet in the stirrups and have the problem gone. The idea that a fetus is a human, well in a way. And in a way abortion is murder but I am all for it. I am for abortion, as I don't think unwanted babies should be in this world as it's psychologically damaging to the babies, but I also do think it's ridiculous when abortion is used as birth control. I call it, "Self-inflicted disease". It's like a situation you know you can prevent, but intentionally put yourself in. And there is also too many ignorance about safe sex out there, or deliberate ignorance about safe sex. I just feel like, abortion is totally an unnecessary disaster. I mean, it's beyond the murder thing, which like you, I am totally okay with murder of a human being because it's a foreign object in a woman's stomach and she should have the choice whether that foreign object stays or not. But abortion can be psychological damaging for some women too. And would it not be better if they had the fore sight to be more careful? People don't really think about being more careful about things, unless suddenly, there is a law penalty for it. As I think doctors should spend more time fixing cancer, than wasting time performing thousands or millions of self-inflicted problems like helping people to remove a baby they don't want! quote: But then we have this other little idea of mine you might like. They are told straight out that they can have ONE MORE free abortion, but it comes with a non-negotiable feature - a tubal ligation. If you want a second abortion, you either pay for it or you will never need another one. Birth control is free in the UK, I mean my girlfriend when she was working there got her IUD free. And yet, teenage pregnancies are ridiculous there. Because there are no consequences for abortion, even when birth control is free, nobody cares to get it for free. I guess forced birth control of some sort can be the consequence. But! That idea means it's gonna spend taxpayers money on irresponsible people, that's why I don't like it! I prefer community service, because they will be doing something useful for society for free.

Greta75 -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 4:48:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence Fascinating enough abortions are actually falling as per 1000 women in the US and the UK. Abortions are also done in the lower stages of development more often than before. Every unwanted pregnancy is one unwanted pregnancy too many.

Greta75 -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 4:53:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence "Yeah suck it up you raped hoe and go public about it unless you want to have the state rape you too. " A woman reporting rape is always a positive thing, since I want every rapist to be convicted! IF this will force a woman to get over her fear of reporting rape, it's a positive thing. quote: Or what about that women might blame men for rape to get an abortion? :) This was brought up by wayward. First of all, rape is not something that you can claim by your own mouth. It has to be proven. On the opposite side, there may be women who actually got raped, but could not prove it that will fall through the cracks too, that's why humane punishment such as community service is inflicted. Which also why, the whole forced sterilisation thing is not a good idea if the woman can't prove she got rape. That's too physical altering of a punishment. I see community service as "forced volunteering" to do good, and it's a positive punishment.

Greta75 -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 5:02:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR This thread brought to mind an interesting (imho) observation by a favorite writer: Yet, as every party to the abortion debate should know, those methods of contraception that are truly safe are not absolutely reliable no matter how reliably they are used. Every doctor here claims the pill is 100% safe, I mean, safe for your health. I still heavily believe condoms and pill combo is 100% safe for prevention of birth and for your health. Because that's what I personally practice and I have never gotten pregnant despite my high volume of sexual partners all my life. Very few women do both. They always only choose one! And I had condoms broke on me several times which I took morning after pill to be doubly sure! I mean, I practice these and I truly believe it works to prevent pregnancy. It's just about being responsible!

Greta75 -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 5:08:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Are you aware Greta, that most catholic and other non-christian schools in Singapore do not follow the MOE's teachings on sex education? Many are saying that it contradicts the teachings of their faith. Both me and my brothers attended staunched christian school that were corporal punishment heavy. And they even implemented bible studies which I wonder was illegal or not, to be a condition, as in, we were told, if we don't pass our bible studies, even if we score A's in every subject, we will fail our entire year! They certainly did follow the standard curriculum though. Textbooks are standard. Sex education is part of science class. And even if the teachers refuse to teach the chapter, the kids still gotta study the chapter. quote: And for you, a female, who is so utterly selfish when it comes to sex that she can't find love, beggars belief. And a female that can't cook... at your age?? You should be ashamed of yourself. What's up with these personal attacks and ad hominem that is irrelevant to the topic at hand. I love how having sexual preferences is being selfish now. Should I allow myself to feel raped by a man all the time by allowing him to do everything to me I hate and that disgust me? You are the one who is disgusting to suggest a woman breaks her sexual limits for a man she loves. And you are also basically suggesting that a woman who doesn't break her sexual limits for her man will never find love. Just Wow! That can't be true, since most of my girlfriends are also married, with maids at home, so they don't have to cook, and they don't even like sex at all, and deprive their men of sex totally. Yet they found love. The difference is, they aren't looking for perfect sexual compatibility, they practice abstinence from sex except for the sake of kids, so that's easier. But I am seeking my perfect sexual compatibility, so due to my sexual preferences, this will be needle in the haystack since I want a perfect sexual match. And I will not settle for a man who certainly wants me to suffer rape from him everyday, by forcing all the sexual things I hate down my throat and using that as emotional blackmail for his love. Seriously freedomdwarf, I hope you don't advice your daughters to sacrifice her sexual preference for love and that they would never be able to find love unless they become the perfect whore for their husbands and do everything he wants in bed? It's terrible as a father to teach young women that! That they are less because they don't want to fulfill their husband's sexual preferences? You have effectively reduced them to sexual objects. Really surprise there is a misogynist in you. You do realise we all grew up with maids in Singapore and never had to learn to cook. On top of that, I step out of my house and I have 100 different cuisines waiting for me, just 5 minutes walk from my place, and why should I cook? When eating out is so convenient and 24/7 opened eateries are everywhere? Also, men really loves cooking, there is no need to learn cooking. I've just never bonded with men who wants a female to cook. Most men are happy to be cooks, to make the mess in the kitchen. I enjoy washing dishes, and cleaning up, and that's what I'm good at. And that's the role I will continue to play in a kitchen. Not the cook! I take care of the hygiene after the mess.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 5:49:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Every doctor here claims the pill is 100% safe, I mean, safe for your health. Well then they are lying. It is widely known that BCP carry significant risks. For example, I have a gene mutation that makes me more susceptible to blood clots. Every specialist I have seen has told me that I was very fortunate that I did not die from a blood clot when I was taking the Pill. It is accepted medical fact that BCP contribute to blood clots. So I can't take BCP. At the same time, getting pregnant ups my chances for blood clots, for me and a baby. When I got pregnant with my son, I did so after years of being told that I would be unable to carry a child to term. My condition increases the likelihood of blood clots in the placenta, which would result in a miscarriage. Starting at week 6 I had to visit specialists every single week for the duration of the pregnancy. I had to give myself shots in the stomach twice a day every day, up to and including the day I gave birth, to try to prevent clots in me or the baby. Of course, when you are on blood thinners and you go do something like pop a baby out of your hoo-haw, that tends to lead to a lot of bleeding. Enough that within 5 minutes of giving birth there are bells ringing in the room and so many doctors running in to work on you that your husband finds himself worrying for hours that he is going to be raising the baby alone. I also can't have surgery to get my tubes tied or anything like that. Because surgery puts you at higher risk of blood clots.

Greta75 -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 5:52:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Well then they are lying. It is widely known that BCP carry significant risks. For example, I have a gene mutation that makes me more susceptible to blood clots. Every specialist I have seen has told me that I was very fortunate that I did not die from a blood clot when I was taking the Pill. It is accepted medical fact that BCP contribute to blood clots. So I can't take BCP. At the same time, getting pregnant ups my chances for blood clots, for me and a baby. When I got pregnant with my son, I did so after years of being told that I would be unable to carry a child to term. My condition increases the likelihood of blood clots in the placenta, which would result in a miscarriage. Starting at week 6 I had to visit specialists every single week for the duration of the pregnancy. I had to give myself shots in the stomach twice a day every day, up to and including the day I gave birth, to try to prevent clots in me or the baby. Of course, when you are on blood thinners and you go do something like pop a baby out of your hoo-haw, that tends to lead to a lot of bleeding. Enough that within 5 minutes of giving birth there are bells ringing in the room and so many doctors running in to work on you that your husband finds himself worrying for hours that he is going to be raising the baby alone. I also can't have surgery to get my tubes tied or anything like that. Because surgery puts you at higher risk of blood clots. But that's like broccoli is 100% safe but people with certain medical conditions, eating brocoli will be toxic to them. I can't remember which medical condition it was. I remembered I had a friend where broccoli was life endangerment for her medical condition. So your example just means that, and I would like to add, that in my plan, people such as you with medical conditions that prevents you from birth control will be exempted. I mean, anybody with legitimate reasons that can be proven, like your condition will be exempted from the penalty. As that is only fair.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 5:52:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Greta, yeah well you said that birth control works too. None of my pregnancies were planned, and all 7 were sposed to be "controlled" by a pill or tubal ligation. You need so much education, its not funny. Did you read my 3 steps to 101% that I wrote to wayward. You didn't do my three steps. There was your mistake Lucy, you didn't consult Greta on birth control advice first.

Greta75 -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 5:54:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul There was your mistake Lucy, you didn't consult Greta on birth control advice first. I think most people know it could be safer, but it would be unsexy. Also, in my experience of casual sex world. I meet at least 50% of men who tell me it would be deal breaker if he had to use a condom, and they would not understand why they are being forced to use a condom if I am already on the pill. So..., I mean, you gotta stand firm, but sometimes, some women wanna please the men. And also some women prefer sleeveless too. So alot of sexual wants happened in replacement of ultra safety.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 6:03:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I didn't know you can get pregnant from anal sex? I mean, are you serious? It's possible? Scientifically how? Either way, condoms and contraceptive combo should make it literally impossible to get pregnant from anal sex too! Are you aware Greta, that most catholic and other non-christian schools in Singapore do not follow the MOE's teachings on sex education? Many are saying that it contradicts the teachings of their faith. So in that sense, there are many out there in your own country that do not use contraception at all; despite your assertions that everyone gets the same sex education. That claim is just bullshit. And for you, a female, who is so utterly selfish when it comes to sex that she can't find love, beggars belief. And a female that can't cook... at your age?? You should be ashamed of yourself. I really wonder how you've managed to survive for so long with such a blinkered PoV of the world. In many respects, you are no better than the poor women living in north Korea - blinded, brainwashed, spoon-fed propaganda that you swallow wholesale without question and dismiss everything else. I obviously disagree with everything Greta is saying in this thread. I have made that very clear. But I did not intend for my comments to be used as a jumping off point for comments of such a personal nature. A little sexist, don't you think? Not being able to cook is not something that women should be ashamed of, unless you think that women should be barefoot and in the kitchen. Not to mention the comments about sex and love. Greta, you know how I feel about your perspective on this and many things. But I did not intend to pave the way for personal, offensive, and sexist comments to be directed at you. And for that I apologize.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 6:03:37 PM)
quote: It is widely known that BCP carry significant risks. Including pregnancy, for which I am quite happy.

Greta75 -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 6:19:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Greta, you know how I feel about your perspective on this and many things. But I did not intend to pave the way for personal, offensive, and sexist comments to be directed at you. And for that I apologize. Much appreciate the kindness here Wayward, but you are definitely not responsible for Freedomdwarf comments.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 6:25:30 PM)
Well there is the issue of dripping....

Wayward5oul -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 6:30:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 But that's like broccoli is 100% safe but people with certain medical conditions, eating brocoli will be toxic to them. I can't remember which medical condition it was. I remembered I had a friend where broccoli was life endangerment for her medical condition. It could be the same that I have, or a variation of it. Green vegetables are high in Vitamin K, which is a natural blood clotter. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 So your example just means that, and I would like to add, that in my plan, people such as you with medical conditions that prevents you from birth control will be exempted. I mean, anybody with legitimate reasons that can be proven, like your condition will be exempted from the penalty. As that is only fair. Guess what Greta, the world is not as fair as you seem to think. People are not as able to think in black and white like you do. Most of what you have said here seems logical (but no less offensive) in theory, but in reality are in no way realistic.

Lucylastic -> RE: Win-Win to Abortion issue (2/18/2016 7:10:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Greta, yeah well you said that birth control works too. None of my pregnancies were planned, and all 7 were sposed to be "controlled" by a pill or tubal ligation. You need so much education, its not funny. Did you read my 3 steps to 101% that I wrote to wayward. You didn't do my three steps. There was your mistake Lucy, you didn't consult Greta on birth control advice first. she is totally ignoring the risks with horomonal birth control, infection and problems from having a spermicide allergy, the morning after pill has only been legal since 2013 in the US, it is still a religious issue with many people, it isnt safe to use more than twice amonth oops I forgot and it can cause a risk of ectopic pregnancy, because it makes the uterus disallow implantation. Silicone condoms are a recent development, and lots of people have allergies to latex And ectopic pregnacy can kill so can Blood clots, high blood pressure, heart problems, PCOS< endometriosis, are all possible and a risk. The fact that I had my tubes tied....was sposed to be sterilised didnt stop me from getting pregnant. That ended up as an ectopic pregnancy that nearly killed me after a year of having the sterilisation. Which WAS 24 years ago, I would take advice from her now as much as I would have when she was 12. NONE at all. She can be blase as she wants, her ignorance is pathetic, as for the fine and community service, sterilisation at welfare level and all the other bullshit the males and her have come up with, apart from the fact that they are so problematic not just legally, but morally, constitutionally and ethically dumb as a box of pencils. She hasnt proven her cack, she has made light of it...she isnt worth listening to. [;)]

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