RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/2/2016 7:22:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I can't believe a thread about a fairly clear constitutional question turned into another shit-slinging match.

Me either, particularly since, as you said, it was pretty clear from the outset that the Constitution didn't bar women.
This was just set up in an attempt to trap strict constructionists.

There are no strict constitutionalists, those that claim it have no fucking clue about the constitution. They only spew nutsuckerism. I know there is no one strict enough to shout down voter id, standing armies, and citizens arming against the tyranny of our government. All against the strict constitution. Nor are these strict constitutionalist standing up for the right of our government to tax us, and to revoke corporations and lobbyists.


How is it a trap? If you support strict constitutional interpretation,there is no trap.




MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/2/2016 7:41:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I can't believe a thread about a fairly clear constitutional question turned into another shit-slinging match.

Me either, particularly since, as you said, it was pretty clear from the outset that the Constitution didn't bar women.
This was just set up in an attempt to trap strict constructionists.

There are no strict constitutionalists, those that claim it have no fucking clue about the constitution. They only spew nutsuckerism. I know there is no one strict enough to shout down voter id, standing armies, and citizens arming against the tyranny of our government. All against the strict constitution. Nor are these strict constitutionalist standing up for the right of our government to tax us, and to revoke corporations and lobbyists.


How is it a trap? If you support strict constitutional interpretation,there is no trap.


There are strict Constitutionalists. The problem is... The only ones you here about are right-wing partisan hacks, masquerading as strict Constituionalists.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 8:40:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874
Awareness, the thread could be about apples and oranges and their relative attributes and before the end of two pages it would have devolved into that same shit-sling, insult-hurling childish name-calling from the same perpetrators mate.....................it would also be a slanging match between pro-democrats and pro-republicans and how stupid the other side was..


Well, if apples were less likely to vote conservative, those on the left would be significantly less anti-apple.

Just sayin'




BamaD -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 9:03:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I can't believe a thread about a fairly clear constitutional question turned into another shit-slinging match.

Me either, particularly since, as you said, it was pretty clear from the outset that the Constitution didn't bar women.
This was just set up in an attempt to trap strict constructionists.


Note from the OP:

1) I disagree that it is "pretty clear from the outset" that the Constitution doesn't bar women, There were a half dozen opinions (just opinions) that were expressed that Constitution doesn't bar women. People opine on all sorts of things. That doesn't make any fact "clear" at all.
I believe that:
a) The Constitution shouldn't bar women
b) The Constitution needs to be (and SHOULD be) amended to allow women.

2) Your quite absurd statement "This was just set up in an attempt to trap strict constructionists.". Since I am the strict constructionist that STARTED the thread (having just obliterated Phydeaux in a previous Constitutional debate, as I was taking a strict constructionist position), your assertion would seem rather silly.

There is no Constitutional reason a woman can't be president.




MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 12:18:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

There is no Constitutional reason a woman can't be president.


Yes. I understand that is your opinion. Others here have expressed the same opinion.

I do not believe it is as clear cut as that.




mnottertail -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 12:45:37 PM)

I hear what is a unreasonable (in my mind) challenge. I point out two things, there was a congressMAN (who happened to be female, some 4 years or more before women got the right to vote) and secondly, there is no third person sexless pronoun in the English language. Therefore, the case when called cannot prevail, expecially now that ol Scabies Scalia has died from whatever perfidious rot that has cakked the no good fucker.

thats the realpolitik.




BamaD -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 1:13:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

There is no Constitutional reason a woman can't be president.


Yes. I understand that is your opinion. Others here have expressed the same opinion.

I do not believe it is as clear cut as that.

You are entitled to your opinion but I am convinced that you are wrong.




thompsonx -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 1:47:52 PM)


ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I hear what is a unreasonable (in my mind) challenge. I point out two things, there was a congressMAN (who happened to be female, some 4 years or more before women got the right to vote)

True on the whole but there is sooooo much more...the lady in question came from a state that had voted and approved of the sufferage for women. The women of that state sent that woman to washington to be one of their representatives. Not as a republicrat or a demopub but as a progressive and a pacifist. She voted against both ww1 and ww2 (that took balls that a brass monkey would envy).
Strangely enough she was wecomed to the house with a rousing cheer that required her to rise twice over the cheers to accept her seat. Too phoquing kewel no...[:)]








mnottertail -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 1:53:12 PM)

Thanks, but if the bitch looked like Bernie Sanders, no way am I gonna let her give me an airstart. I do have standards, even though they are not apparent to anyone but me.




mnottertail -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 1:57:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I hear what is a unreasonable (in my mind) challenge. I point out two things, there was a congressMAN (who happened to be female, some 4 years or more before women got the right to vote)

True on the whole but there is sooooo much more...the lady in question came from a state that had voted and approved of the sufferage for women. The women of that state sent that woman to washington to be one of their representatives. Not as a republicrat or a demopub but as a progressive and a pacifist. She voted against both ww1 and ww2 (that took balls that a brass monkey would envy).
Strangely enough she was wecomed to the house with a rousing cheer that required her to rise twice over the cheers to accept her seat. Too phoquing kewel no...[:)]




But Huntie, while on this subject and a tangent but no an entire cosecant.....I wish Teddy Roosevelt would have run instead of letting that fucktsick Taft in, and then there would be no fucking shitbreathing of this 2 terms and part of a term. Been done before, different than the law. But, alas no (and yeah, I know the law came later). Two Roosevelts, and different parties, but if they would have ran, or stayed alive, still be president today. Thus endeth the mewling puking term limits asswipe.




MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 2:00:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

There is no Constitutional reason a woman can't be president.


Yes. I understand that is your opinion. Others here have expressed the same opinion.

I do not believe it is as clear cut as that.

You are entitled to your opinion but I am convinced that you are wrong.



Yes. That is your opinion.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 2:08:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

There is no Constitutional reason a woman can't be president.


Yes. I understand that is your opinion. Others here have expressed the same opinion.

I do not believe it is as clear cut as that.

You are entitled to your opinion but I am convinced that you are wrong.

I agree with that Bama.

Most of the US constitution was based on the British common law.
I don't know the constitution off by heart but I don't believe there is anything in there that specifically prohibits females from being a ruler or president.
I believe that argument was shot down when John Knox (16th century) tried to say that women could not reign and I think our 'Henry said something similar. But of course it was all turned on its head when Mary Tudor ended up being Queen of England followed by Elizabeth.

When the US constitution was written, I believe the founding fathers were very much aware of the sexist argument of past British rulers otherwise there would be very specific wording to stop females being a ruler.

So I think, after more than 140 posts debating the point, there is nothing to stop a female being president and nothing needs changing in the constitution to allow it.
And in this day and age of political correctness, anywhere that refers to one gender inherently infers the other.




thompsonx -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 2:45:02 PM)


ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Most of the US constitution was based on the British common law.
I don't know the constitution off by heart but I don't believe there is anything in there that specifically prohibits females from being a ruler or president.

Woman sufferage is what prevents it. Until the passage of the 19th ammendment women were not guaranteed the vote. Several states had granted women the vote but it was limited to those states. Thus it would be impossible for a woman to elected president just as jim crow laws in the south prevented blacks from attaining public office.


I believe that argument was shot down when John Knox (16th century) tried to say that women could not reign and I think our 'Henry said something similar. But of course it was all turned on its head when Mary Tudor ended up being Queen of England followed by Elizabeth.

Wasn't there a bit more to it than that???[8|] Wasn't elizabeth the last one alive?

When the US constitution was written, I believe the founding fathers were very much aware of the sexist argument of past British rulers otherwise there would be very specific wording to stop females being a ruler.

Women were not allowed to vote. That is a pretty solid road block to becoming president dontchathimk?

So I think, after more than 140 posts debating the point, there is nothing to stop a female being president and nothing needs changing in the constitution to allow it.

Not since the 19th ammendment.






thompsonx -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 2:46:53 PM)


ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Thanks, but if the bitch looked like Bernie Sanders, no way am I gonna let her give me an airstart. I do have standards, even though they are not apparent to anyone but me.


If it wern't for low standards I would have no standards at all.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 10:10:40 PM)

quote:

Women were not allowed to vote. That is a pretty solid road block to becoming president dontchathimk?

Nope.




BamaD -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/3/2016 10:15:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Women were not allowed to vote. That is a pretty solid road block to becoming president dontchathimk?

Nope.

Since the Constitution did not say women couldn't vote it was only a road block till that was changed.
See 19th amendment.
BTW this all means that I agree with you.




bounty44 -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/4/2016 5:48:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
I am the strict constructionist that STARTED the thread...I was taking a strict constructionist position...


quote:

Strict constructionists: Congress should be allowed to exercise very few implied powers so that government will remain small..

One faction, the strict constructionists, was led by Thomas Jefferson. Arguing that "that government is best which governs least," the strict constructionists desired a small federal government, one that would leave most power to the states and to the people. Thus they argued that Congress should only be allowed to exercise those expressed powers specifically listed in the Constitution, recognizing few or any other implied powers as legitimate. Jefferson wanted to ensure that government would charge few or no taxes, mostly leaving the people at liberty to pursue their own objectives free from government interference. Only a very strict reading of the Necessary and Proper Clause, he thought, would prevent the government from giving itself more and more unnecessary power over citizens' lives.


http://www.shmoop.com/legislative-branch/strict-constructionism-broad-constructionism.html

quote:

Strict construction requires a judge to apply the text only as it is written. Once the court has a clear meaning of the text, no further investigation is required. Judges—in this view—should avoid drawing inferences from a statute or constitution and focus only on the text itself.[1] Justice Hugo Black (1886–1973) argued that the First Amendment's injunction, that Congress shall make no law (against certain civil rights), should be construed strictly: no law, thought Black, admits no exceptions. However, "strict construction" is not a synonym for textualism or originalism. Antonin Scalia, a major proponent of textualism, said that "no one ought to be" a strict constructionist.[2]

The term often contrasts with the phrase "judicial activism", used to describe judges who seek to enact legislation through court rulings, although the two terms are not actually opposites...

"Strict constructionism" is also used in American political discourse as an umbrella term for conservative legal philosophies such as originalism and textualism, which emphasize judicial restraint and fidelity to the original meaning (or originally intended meaning) of constitutions and laws. It is frequently used even more loosely to describe any conservative judge or legal analyst...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_constructionism

quote:

Because the United States Constitution was written in relatively general terms, there have always been questions about how to best interpret it. Strict constructionism is a legal philosophy that applies a narrow, or 'strict', interpretation to a legal text, like the U.S. Constitution...

When reading a law or applying constitutional principles, strict constructionists ignore context and consider only the words on the page. The circumstances or potential result of a judicial ruling do not factor into a strict constructionist's decision-making process. They believe that legal texts carry the same meaning from the day that it is written until the day it is amended or repealed.

Strict constructionists seek to understand and apply the original meaning of the legal text. They do not rely upon political or personal motivations when applying the law. Likewise, they aren't driven to hand down a particular ruling or judgment for the sake of obtaining a specific result. That approach is known as judicial activism.


http://study.com/academy/lesson/strict-constructionism-definition-beliefs-examples.html

I could be wrong, but it does not seem to me you are that...I would contend you, and anyone with left leaning sensibilities, is more or less the opposite of that.






NewLifeAdventure -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/4/2016 7:09:29 AM)

Another term for Jefferson's faction was states right agrarian, as opposed to federalists that favored more centralized government for the sake of commerce and "defense" (really colonialism, as history has shown, including our own Revolution, that a decentralized defense is a harder target to conquer). Federalists went extinct, but not before packing the Supreme Court with the most significant consequences in the history of our government. We are who we are, for good or bad, because of the jurisprudence that began with the Marshall Court which, among other things, made themselves the final arbiter of the Constitution (the Constitution itself does not specifically state that). All Supreme Courts have engaged in judicial activism since then, including Justices who speak out against it.

What filled the Federalist void were the Whigs, also for centralized government for the sake of commerce and corporations, who also went extinct. At least before the advent of mass media, decentralized parties were more resilient than centralized parties. Filling the Whig void was the Republican party, also for centralized government for the sake of commerce, corporations and "defense." Thus as much as corporate-funded think tanks and interest groups want to turn it around, the Republican lineage is the pro-centralized, pro-commerce, pro-corporation track. Originally corporations were to pay the federal taxes, because that's who centralized federal government primarily benefited. Intrusion into individuals paying taxes occurred first, with social program intrusion following. The logical retraction to that would be shifting federal tax burden back to corporations again, followed by retraction of social programs, but no corporate funded think tank, interest group or mass media outlet will nurture that type of thinking.

Since the seventies, the decade of the Powell Memorandum and when the Supreme Court determined that money was free speech, there have been unrelenting trends, most notably wealth disparity, that have risen despite a Democratic president, Republican president, Democratic congress, Republican congress, split branches or unified branches. We have, as a fairly well known Princeton study empirically documented, an oligarchy. Voting for either legislative or executive branches is largely irrelevant to these trends. To overcome them we would have to start with overturning the jurisprudence groundwork first laid by the Marshall Court, which means the significant voting would be on Amendments, something that has become exceedingly rare precisely because of the marriage of wealth and power enabled by the Supreme Court.




thompsonx -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/4/2016 7:10:42 AM)


ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Women were not allowed to vote. That is a pretty solid road block to becoming president dontchathimk?

Nope.

By the same metric blacks not being able to vote did not prevent a black president????[8|]




thompsonx -> RE: Can a woman be President of the United States sans a Constitutional Amendment? (4/4/2016 7:14:59 AM)


ORIGINAL: BamaD

Since the Constitution did not say women couldn't vote it was only a road block till that was changed.


The constitution is pretty clear as to who may vote. Women were not allowed to vote for president or vice president. How is it that you were unaware of this?




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