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RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 9:58:27 PM   
Edwird


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Joined: 5/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Cheers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryrEPzsx1gQ

Oh, so loverly on the ears!

-Pukes and pukes ... -


All I get for that is

This video contains content from SME, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds


Needles


My country or your country?

Streams and plays fine on my crap computer sound system.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 8/15/2016 10:00:07 PM >

(in reply to needlesandpins)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 9:58:55 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

If you cannot hear the difference between "Here Comes The Sun" and whatever crap is blasted upon us nowadays while sitting at the red light in traffic, then congratulations to you for both lack of musical sensitivity and half deaf ears.


Miss the point much? You are simply not listening to what is being said.

quote:

And perhaps you missed out on the 'computer percussion' part. How many of the bands you mention used computer chip 'percussion'?


I'll offer you one very popular songwriter and artist that uses "computer chip" percussion (whatever that ambiguous statement even means). Peter Gabriel. Oh, and I wouldn't argue that with me because I am a devout fan of his and I know how he records his music. Now applying your logic... he is a hack. Right?

Check on it... Peter Gabriel was one of the first "mainstream" artists to employ the CMI Fairlight Music Computer in his music. In fact, it was his third album "Security" that he first used it on.

quote:

And no, auto tune was not in existence at the time for any of the bands you mention, and no, none of those artistic efforts came anywhere close to the sonic abomination of auto tune.


If my recollection serves me correctly, and I am open to be told that I am a dolt... Cher was one of the first pop-artists to use auto-tune. She didn't need it, her voice is fine on it's own. It is a tool, nothing more. To use it to mask someone without talent is a misuse of the software and therefore not applicable to true artistry.

quote:

But what I say is not 'bollocks,' just opinion. And my overly sensitive ears.


I guarantee that my ears are far more sensitive than yours and I accept all music... I just don't care for all of it. A form of music I detest is speed metal... and screemo metal... and yet if you listen to the musicianship of such bands, they are incredible. Having an opinion is fine, speaking from a point of arrogance to defend a weak opinion is borderline ridiculous.

quote:

Seriously, if you can't tell the difference between how electronics were merely invoked for occasional artistic purpose 30 years ago vs how computer chips have become the basis for anything over the airwaves now ...


Dude, are you insane? 30 years ago... Which would put us directly in the middle of 1986. If you can not see the erroneous nature of your statement, I am not sure I can even make a point with you. Everything was nearly electronic. The New Wave movement was almost entirely electronic. Gary Newman integrated electronics and other music instruments (acoustic instruments if you will allow the stretch, sub traditional instruments if you are not feeling charitable.)

Oh, and how the fuck did I forget Tangerine Dream? Experimenting with electronics and new uses for it applicable to music since when? The 70's?

quote:

Just stop and quit being an idiot.


Calling people names does not strengthen your points.

quote:

The computer chip and its horrendous noise is the new 'culture.' And that's the point.


That is garbage. The chip is a tool. The noise that it helps create comes from the constipated mind of the artist that writes the dreck of which you speak.

quote:

What used to be inserted for artistic purpose in 5% of the production (except for Kraftwerk) is now 95% of the production, good luck to anything else.


You should stop while you are the most infinitesimally bit ahead. Producing music is not writing it. Perhaps it is a technical point on my part, but you must stop throwing around words that you have no idea what they mean. The "production" phase of music is not the writing or performance. It is the end stage of editing and mixing. Yes, I am admittedly splitting hairs, but you need to get this right. And there is not one current artist that I respect that is not using computers to produce their music, and I dare you to argue that with me. I assure you that you should avoid that.

You don't like today's pop or other music you deem garbage. I get that. Some of these artists have real talent whether or not you recognize it or not. Lady Gaga is one artist of today that I really really like because not only can that woman sing, but she is an artist... and I do not use that word lightly.

I could be a total musical snob if I wanted to, but I cannot, because I know what it takes to write music, and music that people will listen to and not vomit in the process. Your tastes are your own, but rail against the proper things instead of condemning the tool used to write it. It would be like me condemning Gibson guitars because I hate AC/DC. I respect what they did, using all of maybe 5-6 chords to make millions, but I cannot call anything that they did cutting edge. They were musical whores, and they made a fortune doing it. Kudos to them.

As an aside... ironically, there is video of me on the Internet singing Highway to Hell with my band. I hate AC/DC, but I fucking loved singing that song.


*Edited to add something about Peter Gabriel

** Edited to add the fact that I am an idiot and forgot to mention Tangerine Dream.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 8/15/2016 10:33:08 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 10:00:41 PM   
Gauge


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Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

Flock of Seagulls anyone? Just because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opkzgLMH5MA

and on ...

Needles



Could I just say that I hate you? (Not actually...)

I just spent the last fucking 2 hours listening to 80's music because of that link.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to needlesandpins)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 10:10:06 PM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Shit music is made by talentless shits, regardless of the equipment used.


We had a "lead guitar" player for one band I was in who had all of the latest and greatest stuff. Custom Carvin guitars, the best Hiwat amp money could buy, and an effects pedal board that would make Eddie VanHalen cream his drawers. God, this guy could play... he played in tune, and in rhythm... sadly it was not in the same tune and rhythm that the rest of the band was playing in.

I met a blind guy one day, and he had a $30 acoustic guitar that he found in the trash, one you would buy a kid. That amazing motherfucker made that shitty guitar bring tears to my eyes. Talent is palpable. Equipment does not make talent.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 10:36:37 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		Another thing I just wanted to add.

You Edwird, you rage about the computer and computer chip percussion. I will illustrate my point with a video.

I give you Hybrid Sound System. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xptIEkCHTZ4 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TouWmh-piyw or both!! OR THIS!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz0vunnJmlw

Proof that chip percussion can be something wonderful.

*Edited to add another song that is awesome

**Edited to add yet another Hybrid song that is awesome.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 8/15/2016 10:48:21 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 11:03:28 PM   
Edwird


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Got you all worked up, didn't I?

And yes, my ears are likely more sensitive than yours. I wish that it were not so, believe me. I hear a truck putting on the brakes in traffic, and my mind immediately susses it out. "OK, that's a major third, a C sharp with an E sharp, to be exact."

I had the greatest difficulty sitting in the classroom because of the buzz from the ballast of the fluorescent lighting.

When my microwave oven turns on the radiator, after the 'power' setting, it goes from an octave and a fifth to a diminished fifth, which drives me buggers, but I have trained myself to have fun with it in any case. I didn't even know that I had what's called 'absolute pitch memory' as opposed to relative pitch memory, until my music theory teacher called me out on it in one of our music dictation classes.

My neighbor's AC unit intruded through the walls, and I thought it sounded 'different.' Sure enough I went to this site and discovered that the hum was at 177 Hz rather than the prescribed 180 Hz as would be proper for the third harmonic of 60 Hz. There is something about sound traveling through denser material that screws things up, but I've not arsed myself about this particular sonic conundrum.

I also took piano tuning class for a year, and have tuned many pianos. In any case, you would snap up my brother's '66 Höfnerr bass and that Canadian Traynor of his amp in a heartbeat, if he was selling.


And yes, who the fuck doesn't know that Cher was the first with auto tune, at least in the pro audio world.

And yes, my live shows and studio work on the sound board explained to me in less than exemplary fashion what unmitigated fuckwits and earless lumps that 'producers' are.

If you want to use 'producers' as the final estimation of what's good or not, then have at it. We're done.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 11:32:56 PM   
Edwird


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Joined: 5/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

Another thing I just wanted to add.

You Edwird, you rage about the computer and computer chip percussion. I will illustrate my point with a video.

I give you Hybrid Sound System. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xptIEkCHTZ4 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TouWmh-piyw or both!! OR THIS!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz0vunnJmlw

Proof that chip percussion can be something wonderful.

*Edited to add another song that is awesome

**Edited to add yet another Hybrid song that is awesome.



Excellent cherry picking.

Howevermuch it has zip and nada to do with what is blasted into our ears on a daily basis if making the mistake of walking out the front door ...



< Message edited by Edwird -- 8/15/2016 11:37:10 PM >

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 11:34:56 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Got you all worked up, didn't I?


Nope. Not in the slightest. See, you don't know me well, which also means that you don't realize that I don't get worked up. I discuss and debate, the day I get worked up over someone on the Internet... I will unplug my computer and smash my router.


quote:

And yes, my ears are likely more sensitive than yours. I wish that it were not so, believe me. I hear a truck putting on the brakes in traffic, and my mind immediately susses it out. "OK, that's a major third, a C sharp with an E sharp, to be exact."

I had the greatest difficulty sitting in the classroom because of the buzz from the ballast of the fluorescent lighting.

When my microwave oven turns on the radiator, after the 'power' setting, it goes from an octave and a fifth to a diminished fifth, which drives me buggers, but I have trained myself to have fun with it in any case. I didn't even know that I had what's called 'absolute pitch memory' as opposed to relative pitch memory, until my music theory teacher called me out on it in one of our music dictation classes.

My neighbor's AC unit intruded through the walls, and I thought it sounded 'different.' Sure enough I went to this site and discovered that the hum was at 177 Hz rather than the prescribed 180 Hz as would be proper for the third harmonic of 60 Hz. There is something about sound traveling through denser material that screws things up, but I've not arsed myself about this particular sonic conundrum.

I also took piano tuning class for a year, and have tuned many pianos. In any case, you would snap up my brother's '66 Höfnerr bass and that Canadian Traynor of his amp in a heartbeat, if he was selling.


So not only are you a music snob, you are a highly tuned obnoxious music snob? Who gives a shit if you can tell if a trucks breaks are in what key? That is not what is being discussed. You have perfect pitch... or whatever you call it. I do too. So what? It makes your life hell? Frankly, it makes mine just fine thanks. I do not mind dissonant tones, in fact, I listen to a few artists that use them regularly. Ever listen to Béla Bartók? yeah, the Difficult Listening Hour if there ever was one. Love the man because he played in the irregular.

quote:

And yes, who the fuck doesn't know that Cher was the first with auto tune, at least in the pro audio world.


I wasn't sure if she was or not. So you try to make me look like a muletard for that and thus what? Invalidating my points which you fail to address? Dude... you are in a gunfight with a pointy stick.

quote:

And yes, my live shows and studio work on the sound board explained to me in less than exemplary fashion what unmitigated fuckwits and earless lumps that 'producers' are.

If you want to use 'producers' as the final estimation of what's good or not, then have at it


And yet you blame the producers for today's music and not the shitdicks that write this twaddle. Interesting. I will ask it again, miss the point much?

quote:

We're done


We were done a long time ago sunshine... you are just catching up to that?

I don't give a fuck if you can tell the difference in the sigh that a flea has while procreating or self-pleasuring itself. You cannot invalidate music as a whole, ignore that the writing is shit, while claiming to have great knowledge about the production and yet you rail against the producers. If that is your base of comprehension about the musical process, then you are so far off base that my dead grandmother could tag you out and get cheers for it.

I will say it again, if you think that you have somehow invalidated me, you could not be more wrong. I have one thing you do not, and that is an open mind and the tolerance for things that I may not like that exceeds my distaste for it. Be rigid. It suits you. My world is better by not turning my nose up to things that I choose not to listen to.

Good day.

If you ever care to actually debate my points, let me know. I would welcome the discussion.



_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 11:42:52 PM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Excellent cherry picking.

Howevermuch it has zip and nada regarding what is blasted into our ears on a daily basis if making the mistake of walking out the front door ...




I'll take a Clue for $1000 Alex.

My advice... stay inside.

As far as cherry picking, I have a shitton more where that came from.

You are arguing your point from your own world view of music based on the fact that if a slug farts you can tell it is 1/2 a hz off from Mid C. If that is the entirety of your musical acumen, then I pity you.

Enjoy your view on music. Clearly, you have your mind made up... I am not going to even attempt to try to change it.

Music to me is a completely different and versatile amorphous animal... one in which I revel and enjoy, even if I am hearing something that I don't wish to listen to on a regular diet.

Snobbery is not attractive.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 11:43:02 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline 		"We were done a long time ago sunshine"

That made you feel better, didn't it?

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 11:44:22 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		FR~

I don't give a flying fuck who's got the better ears.
You can have your pissing contest somewhere else.

I refer back to my post#5.
I'm quite patial to synths and stuff.
Rick Wakeman is one of my fave artists.
Not so much the what he plays (which I happen to like), it's the how he plays.
I can't remember who said it, but someone said "he doesn't just play the Moog, he makes it sing".
Many of the old artists from around 50 years ago actually played their instruments from their hearts.
Whether it was a real instrument or a synth or some other electronically controlled gizmo (electric guitar anyone??).

The problem with most 'modern' music of the last 30 years is the people performing.
Yes, some of them perform well. In my mind many do not.
It's a mish-mash of noise cobbled together to make money for public consumption.
Many bands and artists are in it for the money, not for the love of music - and it really shows.



_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 11:49:22 PM   
Gauge


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Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

"We were done a long time ago sunshine"

That made you feel better, didn't it?


Give it up man. It is so fucking obvious that you do not know me, or who I am on these boards and what my personality is.

What will make me feel better is if you talk about my points and not to try to appear to be brilliant and all knowing. This discussion could be interesting if not inviting. But you made it about you and your perfection... and that will never fly with me... ever.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/15/2016 11:50:26 PM   
Edwird


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My explanation of sensitive ears was not in any way a proclamation of better musical sense, it was only in response to your claim that your ears were more sensitive than mine.

Don't grasp the basics much, do you?

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/16/2016 12:04:20 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

"We were done a long time ago sunshine"

That made you feel better, didn't it?


Give it up man. It is so fucking obvious that you do not know me, or who I am on these boards and what my personality is.

What will make me feel better is if you talk about my points and not to try to appear to be brilliant and all knowing. This discussion could be interesting if not inviting. But you made it about you and your perfection... and that will never fly with me... ever.


I am quite welcome to discussion on musical points.

If you disagree with me on the point of sonics, that's fine too.

Again, I am far from 'lording it over' others that there is any connection between whatever form of hyperacusis I might have and musical taste.

Sorry you missed it.

Everybody is welcome to their musical taste. Good gosh, if you ever looked at my play list ...

It's not a 'cultural issue' at all.

Some of us have different thresholds than others regarding aperiodic noise, which is all I said in my initial post to begin with, if not in those exact words.



(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/16/2016 12:12:10 AM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

FR~

I don't give a flying fuck who's got the better ears.
You can have your pissing contest somewhere else.


With all due respect, you do not have the right to tell me where and when I can discuss something. I'm not talking about having a better ear, I am talking, quite frankly, about having an open mind. Two entirely different subjects. And you should know, I never have pissing contests.

quote:

I refer back to my post#5.
I'm quite patial to synths and stuff.
Rick Wakeman is one of my fave artists.
Not so much the what he plays (which I happen to like), it's the how he plays.
I can't remember who said it, but someone said "he doesn't just play the Moog, he makes it sing".
Many of the old artists from around 50 years ago actually played their instruments from their hearts.
Whether it was a real instrument or a synth or some other electronically controlled gizmo (electric guitar anyone??).


The days of yesteryear do not invalidate the artist of today. Note my posts about the distinction between hacks and artists. Artists write and perform thoughtful music, or have the talent to do such. Regardless, someone has to write the music for the performer, and those folks that do a good job have talent... those that produce shit, don't. Just because the music was written 40-50 years ago doesn't it make it the gold standard. If you want to talk about gold standard, we can talk classical and if we want to talk even more gold standard, we can talk simply rhythm... because before instruments, Ug and Glug were beating on hollow tree stumps.

quote:

The problem with most 'modern' music of the last 30 years is the people performing.
Yes, some of them perform well. In my mind many do not.
It's a mish-mash of noise cobbled together to make money for public consumption.
Many bands and artists are in it for the money, not for the love of music - and it really shows.


I don't care if they make more money than God... more power to them. That my musical sensibilities have to take a hit in the process, fine. That is why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream. I have the power to choose what I listen to on a regular diet and what I choose not to listen to. As I have stated, I hate AC/DC... and I am sure many could take me to task for that... better yet... I fucking hate Led Zeppelin... yep... Jimmy Page is a terrible guitarist... certainly better than me, but not as high on the totem pole as some would want you to believe. If you think all of the old artists were in it for the love of the music, you could not be more wrong... certainly there were some, but no one would go through what a musician has to go through to get notoriety and not get paid handsomely for it. And I guess that feeds my point a bit, some of today's pop artists have some dance moves, and very little else. I did not like Michael Jackson very much, but I will not sit here and deny that he was a great singer and entertainer. He made a fortune and then some... good for him. He had talent. His music and his name will live on far past those of Bieber and Minaj. Why? Talent.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/16/2016 12:18:48 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


My explanation of sensitive ears was not in any way a proclamation of better musical sense, it was only in response to your claim that your ears were more sensitive than mine.

Don't grasp the basics much, do you?


And yet you still have yet to debate just one of my points. Who gives a flying fuck whose ears are more fucking sensitive? Like that fucking matters to musical tastes which, you have an obvious bias. Debate one of my points and we can stop with this trivial bullshit and maybe even talk about music. You got caught up in the minutiae of your sensitive ears... my ears don't do that... my ears know what they like and don't like. Something you have yet to discuss except to shit all over computers and music you don't like.

Talk about not grasping basics.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/16/2016 12:28:33 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
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Status: offline 		"You mad, bro?"

"Yeah, he mad."

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/16/2016 12:36:57 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

"You mad, bro?"

"Yeah, he mad."


And with that drivel, I am done.

I really and truly wanted to discuss music with you. And I mean that.

I am not mad, I have passion. If you had the same passion we would be talking about music. Instead, you use an Internet triviality to attempt to demonstrate how you think I feel.

Jesus Fuck... I really wanted to talk about music with you. Now, I know what you are about and that makes me sad.

Debate one point I made. Just one. Do it. You can't can you? You haven't since I challenged you to do so. You defended what... your ears? Really? Your ears over mine? No one here gives a shit about that. To see two people who may be qualified if not overqualified to discuss a topic, well now, that might be intriguing if not exciting.

But... I get back...

"You mad Bro?"

Color me disappointed. Truly.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 8/16/2016 12:37:27 AM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/16/2016 12:44:52 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Rick Wakeman is one of my fave artists.


But Jon Lord [Deep Purple] was the best! Can't deny it!


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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Music of the 1960s What a pity we we not yet born. ... - 8/16/2016 1:00:15 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

"You mad, bro?"

"Yeah, he mad."


And with that drivel, I am done.

I really and truly wanted to discuss music with you. And I mean that.

Then do so.


I am not mad, I have passion. If you had the same passion we would be talking about music. Instead, you use an Internet triviality to attempt to demonstrate how you think I feel.

Jesus Fuck... I really wanted to talk about music with you. Now, I know what you are about and that makes me sad.

Debate one point I made. Just one. Do it. You can't can you? You haven't since I challenged you to do so. You defended what... your ears? Really? Your ears over mine? No one here gives a shit about that. To see two people who may be qualified if not overqualified to discuss a topic, well now, that might be intriguing if not exciting.



OK, so I missed out on or forgot whatever musical point you promulgated earlier.

My apologies.

You are right in saying that nobody gives a flying frap about our ears, as it should be.



(in reply to Gauge)
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