RE: Getting over it (Full Version)

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SusanofO -> RE: Getting over it (7/22/2006 10:24:28 PM)

Caretakr: I understand your idea (and this is neither here nor there, but I was raised, and still consider myself, a Catholic. Not necessarily a faithful or observant or fantastic Cathlolic, but - I do go to church (can we say that word here?) and I do like it and gain some comfort from it). Anyway -

I understand your idea, and really guess I may have no business expressing an opinion since I have only been punished twice, and never, ever in a physical manner, BUT - I think people should just be able to organize and practice their realtionships in whatever manner they think works best for them. For some, that includes get-tough, physical punishment, lectures, etc. For others, they'd never consider it  - at all.

I am brought back to my always-thinking on this kind of matter. Basically, I sum it up as:

"What the hell do I care what other people want to do?" [:D]

- Susan



Caretakr -> RE: Getting over it (7/22/2006 10:24:51 PM)

If you cater to a bad habit, it continues.

The habit belongs to the habituated.

If I give a smoker cigarettes, I am enabling a habit.

If I take them away and the smoker is not motivated to quit, they will find more elsewhere. My negative enforcement is moot.

If the smoker wants to quit, I may offer some support to help them reprogram and clean out the addiction. But, if they keep going back and make me repeat the cycle over and over-I will stop offering my support.

This is how I view neuoritic linked punishments. It's a bad habit. I will do little more than enable a continuing bad habit.

This is a waste of my time, and it will piss me off. I don't like being with someone who stubbornly pisses me off.

It's not a happy way to live.



KnightofMists -> RE: Getting over it (7/22/2006 10:35:42 PM)

I concur... however, what you might consider as a bad habit could very well be of no consequence to another or even be consider a desired quality.

It is a subject choice of what we desire in a relationship... I know what works best for me... I tend to let other decide for themselves and not judge them negatively because their approach is different or not enjoyed by myself.  I do thou look and see if their techinque or approach gets results.... Many have alot of opinions and theories... but nothings speaks louder than results.  If they are happy doing the approach that get them the results... FANTASTIC! 



Caretakr -> RE: Getting over it (7/22/2006 10:42:22 PM)

I've been harpied to death in this one. The rest of you do what you wish, I'm going to find something else to do.



KnightofMists -> RE: Getting over it (7/22/2006 11:25:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I've been harpied to death in this one. The rest of you do what you wish, I'm going to find something else to do.


This reminds me of the boy that pick's up his toys from the sandbox because the others are not playing the way he wants.



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Getting over it (7/22/2006 11:45:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

If you cater to a bad habit, it continues.

The habit belongs to the habituated.

If I give a smoker cigarettes, I am enabling a habit.

If I take them away and the smoker is not motivated to quit, they will find more elsewhere. My negative enforcement is moot.

If the smoker wants to quit, I may offer some support to help them reprogram and clean out the addiction. But, if they keep going back and make me repeat the cycle over and over-I will stop offering my support.

This is how I view neuoritic linked punishments. It's a bad habit. I will do little more than enable a continuing bad habit.

This is a waste of my time, and it will piss me off. I don't like being with someone who stubbornly pisses me off.

It's not a happy way to live.


See now, I understood that this was what you were saying right from your first thread. Maybe because it's been my philosophy from the beginning that, while I may put my partner in a position of authority, it doesn't release me from responsibility for my actions.

As a matter of fact it increases the likelihood that I will be responsible since I have given my word to someone. If I fail to keep my word, I fail myself, I let myself down as well as my partner, and the only one who can rebuild my sense of integrity is myself.

In essence, I am the only one who can indeed get over it.

I find it interesting how many times a day we post about subs not being doormats, or children who can't be held accountable, and yet so many people got up in arms when a dom starts a thread that states that any sub who creates drama and refuses to deal with her self-destructive habits is not someone he wants in his life.

Okay, I'm too tired now to go bother with the overweight thread. Guess I can give it a pass. [:)]



MistressDeAnnya -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 12:20:59 AM)

~fast reply~
I understand what Caretakr means,
as Dominants we set rules right? if they dont follow, and Im talking about things that 'deal break' the relationship then its not our duty to punish for punishment sake. Its time to cut them loose.
When we have been disrespected its no longer cute, they broke the deal, its over. Im the one in control not some button pusher. Im talking about repeated behaviours that an adult knows is wrong and they do it from spite ..to get a reaction.
That gets old real quick. Mistakes yes I understand.  
I rather punish those who is within the confines of our understandings. I will not enable someone who wants to push my buttons for punishments sake. Sorry Im not down with that. Those who are, are encouraging deal breaking behaviour. Thats on you all. To each thier own..
A good Dominant says "you do that again Im leaving you" and they mean it. Not play kiddy games and spanky poo. A good Domme sticks to his/her guns, and leaves the worthless tripes behind.
 
Mistress DeAnnya



mistoferin -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 5:03:11 AM)

Wow, what a shit storm! It would seem that the ability to recognize one's own mistakes and take personally responsibility and be accountable for them is a harder concept for some than punishment. This is easy to understand because when one is punished the responsiblity for "correcting the behavior" or "making things right" is on the punisher. Much easier for the punishee.

My own thought on it is that I would not do well in a the whole punishment dynamic. I generally know I screwed up before anyone has to tell me that I did...but If I don't catch it I really only need someone to say "hey, ya screwed up". If the mistake was a correctable one, at that point I go back and correct it. If it was not correctable, I make whatever amends or apologies I need to make and learn the lesson that was in the experience. If a Dominant were to want to "punish" me, the message that I would get from that is that he thought I was incapable of conducting myself in a proper manner.



gooddogbenji -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 5:26:32 AM)

Amen, erin!

That having been said, I just peed on all of you.

*Proceeds to hand out whips, crops, canes, rolled up newspapers, paddles, spatulas, floggers, and baseball bats*

Yours,


benji



SusanofO -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 5:28:01 AM)

You're in for it now, you bad puppy dog! [:D]

- Susan



Caretakr -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 6:16:00 AM)

I'm becoming more and more amused at the outrage being expressed by simply stating that people should be accountable for their own feelings and deeds.
I guess there is an attitude of arrogance that really DOES consider Dominants to be superior, godlike creatures who can "fix" any fuck up who happens along.
ROFL....I guess that emotional masochism is not reserved for subs alone.



KatyLied -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 6:51:20 AM)

quote:

This reminds me of the boy that pick's up his toys from the sandbox because the others are not playing the way he wants.


I've noticed a few instances of this going on the past week.
I think it's a "hey look at me, hey look at me!" tactic.



sapphirepleasure -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 6:52:36 AM)

No.  Actually there is an attitude that a dominant who volleys a slew of names (the latest being "fuck up" but we've seen "loser", "bitch" and quite a bit of vicious disrespect) at submissives who have the audacity to have punishment/self-forgiveness issues (all so much "shit", as far as you're concerned) obviously has some pretty severe issues himself.  And of course any woman who challenges your vitriolic, misogynistic blather is lumped in with those you label as lacking "emotional containment". 

Sad, really sad. 



Caretakr -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 6:57:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

No.  Actually there is an attitude that a dominant who volleys a slew of names (the latest being "fuck up" but we've seen "loser", "bitch" and quite a bit of vicious disrespect) at submissives who have the audacity to have punishment/self-forgiveness issues (all so much "shit", as far as you're concerned) obviously has some pretty severe issues himself.  And of course any woman who challenges your vitriolic, misogynistic blather is lumped in with those you label as lacking "emotional containment". 

Sad, really sad. 



I could say some really cruel things about you, and your motivations for being here. Because you gave me that ammunition earlier on, before I pretty much tired of you.

But I am not going to do that, I will only ask that you reexamine if this will fix YOUR problems- but neglecting your own internal work, that lead to previous failures is not the solution.

A master is not going to be able to "fix" you either.



KatyLied -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 7:04:55 AM)

quote:

A master is not going to be able to "fix" you either.


A bit off topic perhaps....but why do some subs think that the *perfect* Master will fix them?  It is a lofty expectation to think that one person will "fix" you.  Subs, in my opinion, should want to try and "fix" themselves.  Be self-aware of what you need to work on and ask for guidance, but don't ask for "fixing", that's each person's job within his/her life.  With Master's guidance and help, certainly, but the sub does the work.  Just my opinion.





Bearlee -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 7:19:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

A master is not going to be able to "fix" you either.


A bit off topic perhaps....but why do some subs think that the *perfect* Master will fix them?  It is a lofty expectation to think that one person will "fix" you.  Subs, in my opinion, should want to try and "fix" themselves.  Be self-aware of what you need to work on and ask for guidance, but don't ask for "fixing", that's each person's job within his/her life.  With Master's guidance and help, certainly, but the sub does the work.  Just my opinion. 


But, Katy, that's what he's been saying all along!  He seems well aware of that and his whole point has been that subs who repeatedly TRY this are setting the Dominant and the relationship up for failure.  It seems he’s said exactly what you did; people shouldn’t dump responsibility for ‘fixing’ them on another and instead should do the work themselves.  (Kink not withstanding… I think he ‘gets’ play is play).



Caretakr -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 7:25:48 AM)

I think far too many dysfunctional people use the lifestyle as a bandaid to cover some pretty severe lacks. "I totally suck at regular relationships, so if I gain/lose power that's going to make everything all right."
Bullshit, you will just be a fuck-up in a power imbalance dynamic.
Using this as an excuse to dodge dealing with your core issues is no solution-it only makes it worse.



Jasmyn -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 7:31:54 AM)

lol why didn't you just say that 237 posts ago?  



KatyLied -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 7:32:37 AM)

I think many people, regardless of lifestyle have dysfunctions, some worse than others.  A broken person is a broken person, regardless of kink.

Any Dom who would repeatedly put up with ridiculous behavior from a sub is not much of a Dom, or perhaps he's a maso.  But he's not anything a strong sub would ever respect.



Caretakr -> RE: Getting over it (7/23/2006 7:34:36 AM)

I probably didn't have enough coffee.



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