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Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 3:53:34 PM   
MercTech


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I think all that read posts here will agree we are all of the human species. Please, any otherkin, argue the fact off this topic.
Humanity has three distinct races; negroid, mongoloid, and caucasoid. (Anthropology is what you want to google if you want huge amounts of detail.) All the races are of the same species but there are distinct genetic markers; which is what makes them distinct races. Appearance traits aside; some are interesting such as around 80 percent of northern European caucassians can digest milk as adults but only around 20% of those of mongoloid descent. There are mixtures of the races and few present the pure strains any more. But the broad strokes bit is that there are three distinct genetic variants of human with slight genetic differences that present in appearance and a few biological differences. (sicle cell anemia, lactose tolerance, ability to tolerate durian fruit <there has to be a gene for that>)
From Wikepedia
quote:

Ethnicity: eth·nic·i·ty eTHˈnisədē/ noun noun: ethnicity; plural noun: ethnicities
the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

I would add "tribal affiliation" to the mix as well. Tribal affiliation is a factor because Native Americans share a common heritage but can be found across class and ethnic lines. Also, country of origin is not a true indicator of ethnicity in Africa and many Balkan countries. Colonial Africa was not divided at ethnic or tribal boundaries but geographically and the divisions carried into the post colonial era. Balkan countries as under the Soviet system; ethnic groups were lumped willy nilly inside countries for their republic.

What got me off on this subject was a comment in the white male privilege thread that seemed to confuse ethnicity, religion, and race. In specific; the assertion that "Jews are white".
Jewish can be both a religion and an ethnic group and often both. The thing is; there have been black African Jews since long long before the U.S. was a country. I first heard of African Jews in New Orleans back in the 1970s. There were several ladies running food stalls wearing identically cut sleeveless ankle length shifts with tall beehive turbans. Each woman wore a matching solid colored shift and turban but each woman wore a different bright color. I had to know. I bought a cup of gumbo and a beignet and asked why they were dressed the way they were. The one serving me spoke with a soft French accent (not Cajun, not Creole, French - different to the ear even if you don't speak it) "We come from the Jews of Timbuktu and live in the Jewish quarter in Algiers (Across the river from the French Quarter). We show who we are with our dress."
What I ran across was a small group descended from Kulanu who had been brought over as slaves and migrated to New Orleans from former French colonies. The lady I talked with had been born in Haiti. http://www.kulanu.org/timbuktu/JewsOfTimbuktu.php
My point is that ethnicity is different from race. Ethnicity is learned from the culture you grew up with. Race is something you inherited genetically. And, religion can be part of ethnicity or a conscious choice. I met enough blond haired Mexicans and red haired Cherokee in my early years to have no misconceptions about the difference in race and ethnicity and religion.
Black American ethnicity is totally different from Somali ethnicity so you can't assume by appearance.
In earlier waves of immigration; the culture of origin led to enclaves on insular culture. You had Chinatown, Little Italy, etc. Even today you get variations in ethnic culture between those of Scots/Irish ethnicity, Italian ethnicity, Slavic ethnicity, and Germanic ethnicity. The African and Asian ethnicity have their own significant variations. Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Thai, and Vietnamese cultures are as different in ethnic traditions as the German, Italian, Norwegian, and French yet a lot of ignorant Americans try to lump all Asian ethnicity together. So too are the ethnic differences in Somali, Kenyan, Sudanese, and Liberian. Anyone who has spent any time at all in the sandbox knows that Suni, Sufi, and Shia religious groups are ethnically different. Then you get into Arab, Yemeni, Kurd, etc. They share a common religion but not much more.
If you go to paint in broad strokes; know exactly who and why you are choosing and what color you are using.
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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 4:57:00 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

Ethnicity is learned from the culture you grew up with.

So you're saying race is just a colour?
I think with Caucasians and certain Africans. The colour seem to be the same.

But with Asians. South Chinese and North Chinese, South Indian and North Indian, South Filippino and North Filippino, South Thais and North Thais, skin tone is completely different. South ones are usually completely dark, and North ones are extremely fair. The contrast is extreme but are the same ethnicity.

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 5:04:43 PM   
tamaka


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Funny to think but i guess i don't have an ethnicity. My bloodlines are Dutch, Finnish, English, Irish, and Native American.

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 5:18:14 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Funny to think but i guess i don't have an ethnicity. My bloodlines are Dutch, Finnish, English, Irish, and Native American.

I think alot of Americans end up being completely mix on their white ethnicity side.

But the difference is, Like let's say Dutch, German, British whites, are all different ethnicity.

But Taiwan Chinese, Singaporean Chinese, China Chinese, Hong Kong Chinese, are all the same ethnicity.

Different countries but same ethnicity.

And we all speak different native languages too, despite being same ethnicity, but of course have a single language of Mandarin that allows us to communicate with each other.



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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 5:37:38 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

and what color you are using.

I don't use a colour.

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 5:51:15 PM   
mnottertail


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There are homo sapiens and: homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis variegations. That is as close as there is to race.

The rest is complete variegations, or commonly ethnicities.

Done.

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 7:31:36 PM   
littleclip


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i like to put rat, common brown on the census forms as it dose not matter what colour you are it is more along the lines of you have to have an asshole you dont have to be one

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 8:23:01 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Funny to think but i guess i don't have an ethnicity. My bloodlines are Dutch, Finnish, English, Irish, and Native American.
Your ethnicity would be the primary culture your parents raised you in. Growing up, I met Chinese kids in Australia with broad Aussie accents. We didn't give a shit where their parents were from. If they were born here or were here long enough to pick up that accent, they were Australian to us.


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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 8:48:47 PM   
Kirata


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~FR~



http://www.dnatribes.com/sample-results/dnatribes-global-survey-regional-affinities.pdf

Further reading: Human Population Genetic Structure and Inference of Group Membership

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180234/

K.

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 10/31/2016 8:51:45 PM   
Awareness


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No doubt Twink will be along shortly to babble incoherently. Upon fact-checking her narrative, it will probably be either completely unsupported by science or rest upon a misinterpretation of actual science put through the filter of her unhinged-by-acid monkey-brain.

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/1/2016 4:46:35 AM   
Curmudgeonly1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Jewish can be both a religion and an ethnic group and often both.



Yeah, I'm an ethnic Scientologist.



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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/1/2016 11:23:13 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

No doubt Twink will be along shortly to babble incoherently. Upon fact-checking her narrative, it will probably be either completely unsupported by science or rest upon a misinterpretation of actual science put through the filter of her unhinged-by-acid monkey-brain.

Everything is not science and everything cannot be fact checked by science. Only a rigid, authoritarian mind would think so.

When we talk or write socially about the archaic broad categories of racial phenotypes our discourse is guided by what we have learned and the stereotypes we have accepted, in which case Race is indeed socially constructed.

In Europe and North America, these divisions have often used language that focused on physical and geographical differences: “Black,” “White,” “Nordic,” “African,” and so on. Anthropologists have established that ingrained prejudices have often had far more to do with these racial definitions than have the real physical characteristics of people. “Race” in these investigations by cultural anthropologists is conceived of as a cultural construction, not a biological fact. It is in reality a kind of ideology, a way of thinking about, speaking about, and organizing relationships among human groups: Who is your friend, or enemy? Who is a neighbor, or a foreigner? This ideological understanding of race may use the language of physical features when talking about group differences, but biology is not fundamentally important to the ways that these groups are defined. The question before anthropologists in this case is: how and why do people use cultural criteria to define human races, and how have these definitions changed through time?

Over the last two centuries, a more restricted meaning of the word “race” has become common in English. In this case, a race designates one of a number of fundamental divisions within the human species. These races are usually described in biological terms, although people have most often claimed that
behavioral and cultural differences between races exist as well. The number of races identified according to this meaning of the term has varied, but Europe,Africa, and Asia are often identified as the homelands of three of these races, and people talk about “Europeans” (or “Caucasoids”), “Africans”(or “Negroids”), and “Asians” (or “Mongoloids”)as if those three groups constitute fundamental units of humanity.In North American. In North America today, this is the meaning that the general public usually associates with the word “race”:
a. human races are extraordinarily important;
b. they are based on biological differences;
c. they are ancient and (relatively) unchanging, and
d. they are easily distinguishable from one another.

Scientists, including anthropologists,contributed a great deal to the popularization of this idea of human races through the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. These scientists gathered a great deal of data on human physical diversity and on the cultures of societies around the world, but their interpretations were very much colored by their own prejudices. They furnished what appeared to be support to these biological models of human races but, as a variety of scholars have noted (Baker 1998; Barkan1992; Hannaford 1996; Jahoda 1998; Smedley1999), these researchers were themselves very much influenced by stereotypes of different groups and the relations between these groups that were pervasive in their own societies.

The history of scientific racism has been covered in Chapter 2, but two things should be made clear at this point. First, through much of the history of anthropological studies of human races, such studies were concerned with hierarchy and not only with classification. Scientists who compared human populations from different areas of the world were trying to distinguish such populations from one another, but they usually ranked these groups with reference to one another as well. Such rankings might be based on notions of intellectual superiority and inferiority, of savagery and civilization, of greater and lesser degrees of evolution, but they have almost always placed Europeans (almost always upper-and middle-class European males) at the pinnacle of human development.

In the early twenty-first century, the concept of race retains its central place among American preoccupations, in society at large, and in anthropology more particularly. Publication of controversial books like The Bell Curve (Herrnstein and Murray 1994) and Race, Evolution and Behavior (Rushton 1995) has focused renewed attention on questions of race in America, and fue lled debates about the biological and cultural meanings of the word.These books attempt to resurrect the race hierarchies of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, primarily through varying claims that Africans and especially African Americans are on average less intelligent, more violent, and generally less civilized than people from Europe or Asia. At the same time, some anthropologists continue to argue that biological races are real and important entities, usually claiming that disbelief in the existence of such biological units amounts to nothing more than “political correctness.” “Political correctness” is rarely defined in such claims, but one of two general meanings is usually implied. It means either an inappropriate interest in the experiences of women, people of color, and the disadvantaged, or an inappropriate wariness about the objectivity of certain kinds of scientific research

The same situation holds in anthropology:we can (and must) investigate the various dimensions of race, describing and critiquing the concept as we do so. This involves, among other things, examining whether biological race concepts are appropriate models for investigating variability among human beings. This has been one preoccupation of physical and biological anthropology for more than a century now, and it appears that the answer to this question is “No.”The typological race models that had held sway in anthropology through most of the existence of the discipline are not good descriptions of how human biological variability works. The implications of populational models, on the other hand, are so far removed from popular understandings of the term“race”—with hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of “micro-races” dotted around the globe—that use of the term in such cases does nothing more than risk needless confusion. Science is not an exercise in nostalgia: when a term progresses from being burnished by long use to being made obsolete by increasing knowledge,it needs to be discarded. The concept of biological race in anthropology is at that point

This author makes a detailed argument that the three broad categories of race arise from the prejudices of anthropologists, and it adds confusion to popular fears about "others." Race based upon geography is especially absurd because humans have always been travelers spreading their seed far and wide causing incredible variation. To think the continents are the homes of three large, sustained, and purely racial groupings fails Darwinian need for isolation of populations. It also violated the broad variation of genes in humans.

I have taken the liberty of selecting portions of personal interest without identifying them. If you are unhappy with my decision read the article in its full your own self.

The concept of race in anthropology

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/1/2016 11:27:23 AM >


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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/2/2016 5:43:30 PM   
tamaka


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Tribalism seems to be more of a 'Group think' association. I thought this was interesting:

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/22/atheists_self_defeating_superiority_why_joining_forces_with_progressive_religion_is_best_for_non_believers/

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/2/2016 8:32:20 PM   
Termyn8or


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You raise some points I do at times. I do not believe the single poiny origin of Man. I am actually not saying it is not true, I am just saying that I am not convinced, I have doubts. Why ? Well you enumerated some of the reasons already. Thinking that all human life originated in Africa is feel good for the liberals, and they can't even do basic math.

I have read quite a few accounts of people needing different food. Like in Florida, when they have Costa Ricans in jail they are provided with a special diet, give them a hamburger and they throw up. What's more, it is pretty plain that a Scandinavian type might not need the same diet as an Oriental.

They put the odds of multiple point origin very astronomical, but then even one origin is not very likely. For example let's take dogs. Did all dogs get created on the same day in the same place ? Just because they can mate ? That simply does not prove it.

Then I read a book by a doctor who claimed that your dietary needs are related to your blood type. I really would like to see a table correlating blood type with ethnicity, it might be quite revealing. But we are definitely not all the same under the skin. I can drink a 12 pack before even having to go piss, but many Orientals will get sick after three beers. At least that's what I heard/read in the past.

Some o it might be psychological. Tartars used to come and steal your beef and put the tenderloin in their saddle bags with onions and peppercorns and then just ate it raw, some people would throw up at the sight of it. Actually I want to try it and also might have to look up the origins of those people just out of curiosity. their name was not Tartar, that was bestowed on them by those they conquered and stole from and was based on the hoofs of their horses coming when one put their ear to the ground. At least that's what I read. What actual ethnicity they were, I do not know. But raw beef, peppercorns and onions ? There are a hell of alot of people who would not eat that at gunpoint.

And then we got the raw seafood issue. I would not eat sushi at gunpoint. I want my fish cooked.

Some of the reason I do not believe in the single point evolution thing is what, humans went and roamed to the edges of Pangea before it broke up ? Why would they ? And they had no boats or planes.

I am not saying it is not true, I wasn't there. But they have failed to convince me because of many many logical points that do not make sense. If humans existed before Pangea broke up, why did they separate and wind up all over the world ? If humans did not exist before Pangea broke up then how did they get to other continents before there were boats and planes ?

I think science is dying. You got this AGW crowd who think that more taxes will solve everything. Or so they say. We can just all; buy $100,000 all electric cars and charge them with solar panels right ? i have never before seen such a failure in basic math. We got what, 25 % on food stamps ? How many homeless ? And everyone with anything owes their soul on it. You think the national debt is bad ? Look at consumer debt. We are devolving and I am wondering now what species will be at the top of the food chain. They will have problems without that opposing thumb.

And we have all been stunted in intellectual growth by religion. I not for religion there would have been a Man on Mars by now. They put down the thinkers with the force of governments that were theocracies or damn close. Look at what happened to Kopernikus.

Bottom line is that mankind is his worst enemy. We prey upon each other to this day. Not one war was fought for any moral reason, even getting into WW2 because Russia would have taken care of Hitler. What's more if "certain people" did not rob that country blind there would be no WW2 because Hitler would have never got into power in the first place.

Animals do kill each other over territory and other issues, like mates, but people kill each other over oil, phosphorous, cadmium, fuck, anything that can be sold. And if you think your leaders like Clinton are egalitarian think again. You get a tape recorder in the room when she talks to Bill you will hear not only the Nword but many more.

And there is one race/religion (whichever is convenient at the time) that promotes race mixing for everyone but themselves. I LIKE racial differences. I LIKE to go to places where they are all Mexican or Italian or whatever and eat their food and whatever. It is an experience. Once all us goyim are homogenized all that will be over with. Personally, I like most Blacks, and actually would like to get to know one who is REALLY Black, I mean so Black he is almost blue. His family kept their lineage right and did not intermix. Unfortunately there have been few opportunities for that. But hell I'll give him a beer and roll one up, they don't have cooties. Well not any more than me LOL.

In closing, we are not all the same under the skin. They can tell your ethnicity a million years from now by your fossilised remains. Single point evolution in Africa ? Well how the fuck did they get to Sweden ? I think it is a bunch of politically correct bullshit. And I have already looked at all the proof and I got one thing to say about it -
POST HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC

That is a saying that pretty much says something close to correlation does not prove causation. What came after must have been cause by what came before, it is not a truth and is used as such by some people to express the thought that just because something happened, well, that doesn't prove the cause, though the statement in Latin actually does say that. It is used usually as a negative example.

T^T

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/3/2016 9:31:28 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

And then we got the raw seafood issue. I would not eat sushi at gunpoint. I want my fish cooked.

Have you considered the probability that this is cultural? You haven't.

quote:

Then I read a book by a doctor who claimed that your dietary needs are related to your blood type. I really would like to see a table correlating blood type with ethnicity, it might be quite revealing.

I doubt you will ever find it.

We are different "under the skin" and externally as well, but the differences do not support the false notion of distinct races. You just cannot put 6.5 billion people into 3 or 9 or 20 separate, tidy boxes. It is a false and archaic ideology.

Dark skin color is shared by Negroids of Africa and Caucasians of India and indigenous people around the world with varying degrees of melanin. Plots of the frequencies of blood types will in some cases group particular populations of Native Americans with Australian Aborigines, and sub-Saharan Africans with Central Asians. [SNIP] The gene for lactose absorption links Europeans with African pastoral groups, while the hemoglobin S mutation is found in West and Central Africa,Saudi Arabia, and South Asia

quote:

Some of the reason I do not believe in the single point evolution thing is what, humans went and roamed to the edges of Pangea before it broke up ? Why would they ? And they had no boats or planes.

Humans did not exist when the continents broke away from the mother ship.

quote:

What's more if "certain people" did not rob that country blind there would be no WW2 because Hitler would have never got into power in the first place.
Hmmm . . . I wonder which "certain people" you mean, Herr Komandant.

quote:

I LIKE racial differences. I LIKE to go to places where they are all Mexican or Italian or whatever and eat their food and whatever. It is an experience.
What ignorant shit. We Italians belong to the same race as do Mexicans ~ the Human Species.



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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/3/2016 1:06:51 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

This author makes a detailed argument that the three broad categories of race arise from the prejudices of anthropologists, and it adds confusion to popular fears about "others." Race based upon geography is especially absurd because humans have always been travelers spreading their seed far and wide causing incredible variation. To think the continents are the homes of three large, sustained, and purely racial groupings fails Darwinian need for isolation of populations. It also violated the broad variation of genes in humans.



Excellent paper - thanks for posting it.

It does raise some profound questions. If biological notions of race are redundant concepts, then do biologically based explanations of human behaviour hold in any domain?

Many are fond of advancing biological causes for various human behaviours, usually betraying an ignorance or misunderstanding of the relevant science when doing so. For example racists often claim a biological justification for their mistaken hatreds. However if notions of biological race are no longer tenable in science, this surely eliminates all possible scientific justification for racism. The same would certainly apply to notions of male or female superiority/supremacy, which often claim a 'scientific' justification for their prejudices, usually located in the discredited realms of sociobiology or so-called evolutionary psychology.

Do any notions of biological determinism of human behaviour survive rigorous scrutiny?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/3/2016 1:26:21 PM >


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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/3/2016 1:20:11 PM   
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I must admit I have trouble keeping up with the biological determinists' worldview. For instance, till recently, I'd thought that men rape women but not vice versa because testosterone and stuff. But one of the forum biological determinism experts here apprised me of the fact that women rape men as often as vice versa. How can this be possible if women lack the necessary biological make-up to make them aggressive enough to rape?

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/3/2016 1:30:11 PM   
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I've just solved my own puzzle. Women do indeed rape men as much as vice versa, but they rape men in a much more caring, empathic and submissive way. Because oestrogen and having tits and vaginas etc. Sorted! [:)

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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/3/2016 5:15:42 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

It does raise some profound questions. If biological notions of race are redundant concepts, then do biologically based explanations of human behaviour hold in any domain?

You and I had this exchange quite a long time ago. The subject then was human nature. I championed biological determinism for sociopathic behaviors because I could not then understand how Jeffrey Dahmer did the awful things he did. I still do not. So, I continue to think that behaviors out in the narrow ends of the bell curve are not explainable by socialization. I argued then that aggression in boys was channeled and often squelched by the "civilizing institutions of society."

In that regard it is interesting to compare female sociopaths to male sociopaths as the linked article does.

There are not as many female serial killers as there are men and sexual aggression is not so interesting to them, but they do show childhood behaviors similar to their male counterparts and according to this article they have high levels of testosterone. I have not validated that last claim.

Some female sociopaths demonstrate antisocial behavior as children and as adolescents. Lying, stealing, truancy, cruelty to animals and siblings, drug abuse, early sexual activity. Of course, there may be frequent run-ins with the law. Their parents are very often distraught because there is so little they can do. As adults, these female sociopaths may end up abusing alcohol and drugs and end up in and out of prison.

I am interested in your response.



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RE: Of species, race, and ethnicity.... - 11/3/2016 11:21:38 PM   
Termyn8or


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"I doubt you will ever find it. "

A REAL account of a correlation between blood type and race would be highly politically incorrect. But that is how it is now, if you come up with a drug that cures or prevents Tay Sach's disease they would call you a racist, if you came up with a drug that cures or prevents sickle cell anemia they would call you a racist. And you know your wonderful ACA covers you for Tay Sach's if you are not Jewish, sickle cell anemia if you are White, for child bearing if you are male. That is where these legislators should have read the fucking thing. Bunch of assholes.

"Humans did not exist when the continents broke away from the mother ship. "

Then how the fuck did they get all over the world with no boats or planes. this is a logical problem here that they refuse to address.

"Hmmm . . . I wonder which "certain people" you mean, Herr Komandant. "

Wonder not. the people who controlled the banks. The people who invented banks. The people who used banks to rob the country of its wealth. The people who are doing it to this day except in a few countries like Iceland and Hungary that threw them the fuck out, and Iran which will not let them in. Thus the need for Hillary Clinton to start a war. Get control of Iran;'s banks and Exxon and BP stock will skyrocket. She won't even need any bribes.

"What ignorant shit. We Italians belong to the same race as do Mexicans ~ the Human Species.
"


Okey dokie then. Now go breed a doberman with a chihuahua.

And the blood thing, they do a blood test to get a marriage license. What gives them the right to require a marriage license is beyond me, but why the blood test ? If we are all the same then we should have no trouble breeding then right ?

Like I said, the logic does not add up. I am not sayig it is not true, I am saying that I am not convinced. I have been a troubleshooter for many decades and had to sift through facts. I have had to discover and adapt to mistakes, intentional or not in prints and still get the job done. What enabled me to do that was a very good understand of how the shit works. For that I had to separate the meat from the chaff and now I apply it to history and what these asshole government tell us.

And you Italians... (I am an honorary one because of two words I said in court) let's just put you in a jail on Costa Rica and you have to eat that white paste shit they eat, see how your body likes it. I bet you throw up.

T^T

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 20
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