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RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 4:19:04 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1



Not my intuition Peon, it's not guesswork on my part.
It's what I am told categorically by those Muslims around me here.
I have about two dozen or so Muslim friends and probably an equal number of enemies.

They follow Islam. Period.
They admire and condone honour killings; it is their right under Islam.
That's straight from the horse's mouth.
They do whatever they absolutely have to so as not to be hauled to jail under our laws.
Beyond that (or if they think they can get away with it), it is Islamic law first and foremost.

Why do you think the opinion of a few dozen people represent the values of over a billion? Seems a bit more than a little pedestrian to me.

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 4:26:40 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Greta75

Are you saying not eating or drinking any liquids for 12 hours is not a challenge?

Yes pretty much. Supper is usually over at about 6 pm. Read for a bit and go to bed at 10pm. Wake up at 7 am and have breakfast at 8 am...omg that is 14 hours.
Maybe that is why you have issues with your weight?

I would have gotten bladder infection from dehydration and peeing blood by the end of the day!

Sounds to me like you should see a doctor.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 4:44:06 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
What? FD, that is *such* an extreme position. In your interactions with British Muslims to date, this is seriously what your intuition tells you?

Not my intuition Peon, it's not guesswork on my part.
It's what I am told categorically by those Muslims around me here.
I have about two dozen or so Muslim friends and probably an equal number of enemies.

They follow Islam. Period.
They admire and condone honour killings; it is their right under Islam.
That's straight from the horse's mouth.
They do whatever they absolutely have to so as not to be hauled to jail under our laws.
Beyond that (or if they think they can get away with it), it is Islamic law first and foremost.



They tell you, an obvious infidel and someone who probably comes across as at least suspicious of them, that they believe in these things? How do you get to know them so well that they'll do that? Also, how can you and those two dozen Muslims be friends if you and they hold to such different principles? That would be like me being chums with a bunch of goosesteppers. This all baffles me, FD!


Good question!

its just another crock of shit


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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 4:49:02 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
They tell you, an obvious infidel and someone who probably comes across as at least suspicious of them, that they believe in these things? How do you get to know them so well that they'll do that? Also, how can you and those two dozen Muslims be friends if you and they hold to such different principles? That would be like me being chums with a bunch of goosesteppers. This all baffles me, FD!

Most of those Muslim friends are real friends.
I've said it before in other threads, our kids went to school with theirs.
We've had dinners in each others houses.
A couple of them own local shops.
I might be an infidel to them but not a stranger or an outsider as in a casual acquaintance.
That actually makes quite a big difference to the type of conversations we have.

If you can't grasp that idea, I can't help you.


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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 5:06:08 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


What tamaka is saying is that for Islam, there is no distinction between law and religion; they are one and the same.
The Islamic religion depicts the law as well.

That is not true for most other religions on the planet.
They might like to think that they control peoples lives but laws usually get in the way somewhere along the line.

For Islamics, they don't recognise anything other than Islamic doctrine.
They barely pay lip-service to any other laws and do as little as they absolutely must to not get hauled into jail.

If muslims or any other punk breaks the law in my country they are arested and tried by our courts. If you think you or any other person is immune from that come here and try it.


This is what she is saying.

What the idiot from idaho is saying is that he hates muslims and nothing less.


Whilst I agree with your sentiments, you have to catch the bastards first!
And therein lies the problem.
These things happen and they frequently close ranks making detection almost impossible.

In western society, most people would 'out' them to the authorities.
In many Muslim communities, they know they'll get made an example of and they strongly believe it's their right - so they cover it up and hide it.
We've seen it over here and I don't believe that other Muslim communities living elsewhere in western societies are much different.

Breaking the law and getting caught are two entirely different things.
So yeah, they'll be prosecuted IF they even know something has happened AND they can find who the fuck it is to bring charges.
Nice in a utopian world.
Don't always work so well in reality.



quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Not my intuition Peon, it's not guesswork on my part.
It's what I am told categorically by those Muslims around me here.
I have about two dozen or so Muslim friends and probably an equal number of enemies.

They follow Islam. Period.
They admire and condone honour killings; it is their right under Islam.
That's straight from the horse's mouth.
They do whatever they absolutely have to so as not to be hauled to jail under our laws.
Beyond that (or if they think they can get away with it), it is Islamic law first and foremost.

Why do you think the opinion of a few dozen people represent the values of over a billion? Seems a bit more than a little pedestrian to me.

Then explain why sooo many of them hold that PoV and behave the way they do.
And I'm not just talking about those that I know and speak to.

How many times do the authorities find there's been a crime - mostly by accident or long after the event?
How many stories do we hear where girls are taken to Muslim countries for forced weddings, FGM, and even honour killings when the girls refuse?
It happens more often than people want to believe and we're only touching the tip of the iceberg.
It happens right under our noses inside communities that want to hide it because they know it's illegal where they are living in western societies.
It's too late after the event - the damage has been done.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 12/1/2016 5:35:55 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 5:32:27 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


If muslims or any other punk breaks the law in my country they are arested and tried by our courts. If you think you or any other person is immune from that come here and try it.


This is what she is saying.

What the idiot from idaho is saying is that he hates muslims and nothing less.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, you have to catch the bastards first!
And therein lies the problem.
These things happen and they frequently close ranks making detection almost impossible.


Now you are grasping at straws and making shit up.


In western society, most people would 'out' them to the authorities.

In all societits there are "henchmen and co-conspirators" who will protect their own. They lilkewise are criminals. Youre idiotic assertions would lead one to believe that in all islamic countries crimes are not prosecuted...that is demonstrably not true.



In many Muslim communities, they know they'll get made an example of and they strongly believe it's their right - so they cover it up and hide it.
We've seen it over here and I don't believe that other Muslim communities living elsewhere in western societies are much different.

Breaking the law and getting caught are two entirely different things.
So yeah, they'll be prosecuted IF they even know something has happened AND they can find who the fuck it is to bring charges.
Nice in a utopian world.
Don't always work so well in reality.

A quick trip to google will show you that amerikan prisons do have muslim inmates.

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 6:15:48 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


If muslims or any other punk breaks the law in my country they are arested and tried by our courts. If you think you or any other person is immune from that come here and try it.


This is what she is saying.

What the idiot from idaho is saying is that he hates muslims and nothing less.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, you have to catch the bastards first!
And therein lies the problem.
These things happen and they frequently close ranks making detection almost impossible.


Now you are grasping at straws and making shit up.

Perhaps you are oblivious to the news - it happens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
In western society, most people would 'out' them to the authorities.

In all societits there are "henchmen and co-conspirators" who will protect their own. They lilkewise are criminals. Youre idiotic assertions would lead one to believe that in all islamic countries crimes are not prosecuted...that is demonstrably not true.

Hmmm.. so all those events in India and Pakistan where the perps got away with it didn't happen??
How many rapes every day happen over there? Huh??
How many acid attacks against women happen over there??
It's still against the law in those countries but they are often not prosecuted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
In many Muslim communities, they know they'll get made an example of and they strongly believe it's their right - so they cover it up and hide it.
We've seen it over here and I don't believe that other Muslim communities living elsewhere in western societies are much different.

Breaking the law and getting caught are two entirely different things.
So yeah, they'll be prosecuted IF they even know something has happened AND they can find who the fuck it is to bring charges.
Nice in a utopian world.
Don't always work so well in reality.

A quick trip to google will show you that amerikan prisons do have muslim inmates.

And?? Your point is??
That doesn't dismiss what is happening.
And how many are actually caught and incarcerated??
Very few is the answer.


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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 6:30:44 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Not for most Muslims.
They strongly believe everyone else should convert to Islam.
Muslims believe that Islamic doctrine is above any secular laws wherever they are.


I don't have any statistics on this but I really can't imagine any of the Muslims I met in college or elsewhere believing this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
Only if they get caught!!!
Why do you think so many honour killings are carried out and the law only finds out about a tiny fraction of them after the event?
Because Muslims tend to cover it up within their community and because they feel they are justified in doing it.


So many?
How many honor killings have there been, exactly?

quote:

But they want western societies to bend to Islam wherever they can pull the race card.


On what issues? For things like burkas and such I really can't see why it's such a big deal...

quote:

Not to a Muslim.


Now this I really can't believe. So all Muslims living in Western liberal democracies intend to ignore our laws in favor of their own? Even if they think their law is 'superior', I really can't imagine that they would go so far as to reject ours, even within their own communities, knowing that in the eyes of those in power, they are not exempt.

< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 12/1/2016 7:26:08 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 6:57:33 AM   
Awareness


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Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

If you were to meet a Muslim, get to know her well ... and begin to realise that she doesn't think of you as subhuman at all ... would you then think she's not a true or real Muslim?
Yeah, that wouldn't happen - because Muslim women can't cavort with strange men without being escorted by their male relatives.

If she did, she'd be called a whore and stoned... or perhaps murdered to retain her family's honor.

You were saying?

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 6:59:01 AM   
Awareness


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Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I believe that she will think of me what her religion teaches her to think of me.


Why just her religion? I mean, what I think of anybody comes as a result of *everything* my life has taught me. That would be religion, what I've learned at home, at school, from other people ... everything in my life. Isn't everybody like me in those respects?
Victims of cults would beg to differ.

You are so quaintly naive and ignorant. It's rather.... pathetic is the only word which seems appropriate.


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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 7:00:07 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I am not pro islam, I am anti fundamentalist.... of ANY organised religion.
Feminism is an organised religion where hate is preached and fact denied. Why are you not opposing feminist fundamentalism?


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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 7:02:13 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

That hardly surprises me, as you quite clearly know next to nothing about Islam or Christianity. Your confusion is rooted in your ignorance and would be greatly alleviated if you took a few years to study the doctrines of the various religions you wish to talk about.

It really is a fascinating subject, and well worth the time and effort.
Oh look. A functional idiot engaging in hypocrisy.

You know nothing. Christ, what a fucking irony.


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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 7:04:04 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

That hardly surprises me, as you quite clearly know next to nothing about Islam or Christianity. Your confusion is rooted in your ignorance and would be greatly alleviated if you took a few years to study the doctrines of the various religions you wish to talk about.

It really is a fascinating subject, and well worth the time and effort.


I know an awful lot about Christianity... i practiced it and studied it quite extensively. I am just learning about Islam now.


No you do not, it is quite glaringly obvious from your comment that you do not know very much about it at all. You are criticizing Islam for exactly the same doctrines as Christianity holds.
Wrong. Once again, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.


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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 7:09:52 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
What? FD, that is *such* an extreme position. In your interactions with British Muslims to date, this is seriously what your intuition tells you?

Not my intuition Peon, it's not guesswork on my part.
It's what I am told categorically by those Muslims around me here.
I have about two dozen or so Muslim friends and probably an equal number of enemies.

They follow Islam. Period.
They admire and condone honour killings; it is their right under Islam.
That's straight from the horse's mouth.
They do whatever they absolutely have to so as not to be hauled to jail under our laws.
Beyond that (or if they think they can get away with it), it is Islamic law first and foremost.

You're wasting your breath. Unrepentant Leftists are so desperate for allies in their fight against white, heterosexual men that they'll conveniently ignore the homophobic, murderous implications of those allies.

Watch as Peon tries to tell you that your personal experience is trumped by his newsagent.


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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 7:13:12 AM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
They tell you, an obvious infidel and someone who probably comes across as at least suspicious of them, that they believe in these things? How do you get to know them so well that they'll do that? Also, how can you and those two dozen Muslims be friends if you and they hold to such different principles? That would be like me being chums with a bunch of goosesteppers. This all baffles me, FD!

Most of those Muslim friends are real friends.
I've said it before in other threads, our kids went to school with theirs.
We've had dinners in each others houses.
A couple of them own local shops.
I might be an infidel to them but not a stranger or an outsider as in a casual acquaintance.
That actually makes quite a big difference to the type of conversations we have.

If you can't grasp that idea, I can't help you.

I stand corrected. He completely denied your experience because it doesn't accord with his Leftist beliefs.

In Peon's mind, either you must be lying or you're not smart enough to understand other people when they talk to you.

Amazing.


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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 7:22:43 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Most of those Muslims you met in college are probably of the younger generation.
If they were born and brought up in a western society, they tend to be a little more forgiving and have a more moderate view.
The older generation and those less moderate certainly seem to think this way.
And no, I'm not talking about extremists either.

According to hbv-awareness, there are 5000 honour killings internationally per year. 12 per year in the UK alone.
According to Wiki, in 2000, the United Nations estimated that 5,000 women were victims of honor killings each year. According to BBC, "Women's advocacy groups, however, suspect that more than 20,000 women are killed worldwide each year."

That's a stupidly high number for what is supposedly a peaceful and moderate religion.

And the ultimate goal for Islam is world dominance.
It's not just their rigid dress code but also their ideology that they want the west to adopt.
That's why they want to impose sharia courts in the western world.
Have you not witnessed the retorts from Muslims when they see the way western women dress?
Or like my OH that was verbally assaulted because she was seen smoking in public?
"women" aren't allowed to smoke don'tcha know!
And she was told in no uncertain terms to cover her head "like all good women should".
You might think that comment would come from an older Muslim adult.
It didn't.
It came from a 6yo boy with his father standing behind him encouraging him.
And it isn't the first time she's been harassed in this way just walking thru their community going from her daughters house to home.


Muslim ideology just doesn't fit western societies.
They are poles apart and always will be.
Moderate Imams like to tell the media that Islam isn't like that; but in reality, it is, under that veil of 'moderate Islam'.
Perhaps you aren't at the sharp end of things.


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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 8:07:01 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline 		I'm wondering if this culture clash has more to do with first generation immigrants than Islam.

I've been part of expat communities abroad before and there are ALWAYS people who actively refuse to adapt or compromise and who end up being antagonistic towards the host culture, and they are almost invariably going to run across locals who will tell them to 'go back to your country' as well... but that doesn't mean one person speaks for the whole expat community any more than the 'go home' guy speaks for the entire host country.

Obviously if people are killing each other it's a concern, but progress won't be made until both sides can come together and agree. Giving up on the possibility of co-operation is really unhelpful, and it's only going to feed into the divisions that organizations like ISIS and people like Trump love to exploit.

< Message edited by heavyblinker -- 12/1/2016 8:09:03 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 8:18:12 AM   
Lucylastic


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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 8:19:54 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Are you saying not eating or drinking any liquids for 12 hours is not a challenge?

No darling, not at all, just the opposite.

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Islam - 12/1/2016 8:27:30 AM   
ManOeuvre


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Not my intuition Peon, it's not guesswork on my part.
It's what I am told categorically by those Muslims around me here.
I have about two dozen or so Muslim friends and probably an equal number of enemies.

They follow Islam. Period.
They admire and condone honour killings; it is their right under Islam.
That's straight from the horse's mouth.
They do whatever they absolutely have to so as not to be hauled to jail under our laws.
Beyond that (or if they think they can get away with it), it is Islamic law first and foremost.

Why do you think the opinion of a few dozen people represent the values of over a billion? Seems a bit more than a little pedestrian to me.


The term you're looking for is empirical. Still south of a broad statistical analysis, but rather north of intuition and guesswork.

Oh, and the broad statistical analyses that do exist aren't exactly encouraging.

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Profile   Post #: 120
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