quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

He ignored the rules, and he had the blind support of the community and the mayor.
Note, if you are able to that he thought the rules didn't apply, not that they didn't.
As I pointed out any department, even the ones with a minimal training budget would have taught them not to act like he did.
Why pray tell did he think the rules applied to him, because the fact is he ignored the rules.

Actually, he didn't. That is the sad issue here. Even white cops are trained to fire their weapon when they fear for their lives or the lives of their partners.
Neither you nor I have access to what he thought in the moment. It is presumptuous of you to make such a declaration. And once having decided from your magisterial perch that he ignored the rules (you knew what he was thinking) you then go on to make the assertion (being omniscient as you are) that he thought that way because he was a minority.

Class AA deep south racism. He's a nigger. He broke a rule (he didn't) Must be because he is a nigger. Hell, don't sugarcoat your racism. Bull Conner would be ashamed of your reticence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

Just as an exercise, I went back through the thread and checked your 15 or so posts to see if you once expressed some regret or compassion for the victim of this sad incident. Guess what! Not once did I find anything even remotely resembling regret or compassion for the victim. Not once did you pay lip service to her unfortunate demise, or even hint or attempt it.

And what good would that do ? I have to disagree with you chiding him for that. You'll find the same of me. Not that I don't care. An unjustified loss of life is a terrible thing. There is no sense in saying I'm sorry because I didn't do it. So I refrained from commenting on that angle. What good would it do for me to write "Oh, this is so terrible, think of the children" and all that ?

The better thing to do is to focus on what caused this tragedy to happen. I want to know why this thug in a uniform pulled the trigger. WHY ? What threat existed ? What threat did he perceive ? Or did he just feel like killing someone that day ?

Whatever, talk to the government about who they give killing licenses to, and then give them two weeks off with pay after they do it. Shit, if I had no morality and was a cop I would kill someone every two weeks !

But expressing "Oh dear, oh dear" on a message board is totally fruitless.

T^T

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

FR

This particular shooting is a bit puzzling. It sounds as if something went very wrong with this policeman's application of procedure or his training. Unless the officer himself can explain his actions it will remain a mystery.

Of course this is a tragedy like any shooting, in particular the shooting of an innocent woman who had called the police in the first place. The worrying thing is that this adds to the number of unnecessary shootings where there must have been different options and what appears to be a problem with de-escalating situations, which suggests a wider problem with training and/or the culture in some police departments.

Given the number of police shootings in the US compared to other rich western democracies it is clear at the very least that US policemen reach for a gun and use it more frequently than other places. Inevitably where guns are used in law and order situations there are going to be mistakes and miscarriages of justice that come along with a number of these shootings. This is less a criticism of the US, more an acknowledgement that there is a problem to be addressed.

As for the spurious race/religion issue raised by the OP, it would be surprising with so many police firearms incidents that police personnel of colour did not sometimes shoot white people and that some of those shootings would be questionable. That does nothing to mitigate the fact that people of colour are disproportionately killed in police shootings, both in comparison to the population as a whole and taking crime stats into account. There is a race issue here but it's not just a race issue.

Quite apart from the appalling tragedy for this woman and her family, the overwhelming concern is what makes the police reach so often for their guns and what makes them discharge them. Statistics and experiments suggest that even black officers disproportionately shoot black men, and react differently in test situations to black and white subjects. This suggests that there is something going on which is far more subtle than the overt racism which is sometimes evident.

Leaving aside the possibility that there are a number of cops who are just very trigger happy and have no regard for human life, there is at the least a deep-seated self-preservation instinct among the police that goes wrong in real life situations. This does work disproportionately, but not entirely, against non-white suspects, even if you yourself are a black policeman. If you think that you are in a war, you will feel the need to use your gun more often, whatever the consequences.

Apart from the normal cycle of message board blame and counter-blame, there would appear to be issues here which don't have easy solutions. If you were running a police department addressing these issues would be the most difficult part of your job. How do you hire, train and prepare people to do law enforcement jobs to keep the public safe, themselves safe and ensure that situations are appropriately de-escalated to minimise the risks of things going wrong, whilst at the same time rooting out conscious and unconscious racism, incompetence and the plain criminality of (hopefully) a small number of officers?

People continue to die unnecessarily at the hands of the police, in the full glare of an unsympathetic press and public. Of course the police are blamed because their fingers are on the triggers.

No easy solutions to a hugely socially divisive issue.

Non-white officers do just as often shoot unarmed white people but there is no ratings covering it and it weakens the claims so you just don't hear about it that much.
I had the same questions so I did some research and most of what I found was news people questioning the low key approach to black officers shooting white people to the extent that if the shooter is black his race is not initially released.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I know/knew a guy who made sergent. They eventually gave him early retirement because he had lost eleven partners. They kept sending him to the worst neighborhoods, probably because he could shoot. Many cops can't. But he did not shoot those partners, criminals did.

I have no idea how many people he killed. But if they shot his partner it would seem justified. Eleven of them. Eventually he has issues and goes to a shrink and they give him early retirement. Can you imagine even coworkers, at whatever job, getting killed all the time and replaced ? After you hang with them a bit, have lunch n shit, and then they are dead.

But because he was a dead eye they sent him into the worst situations. If you look at his record, lost eleven partners and probably killed two dozen people at least, you might not want to hire him. But not knowing the circumstances you might think he is one of those trigger happy cops. I knew him well enough to know he was not.

When my eyesight was good I could outshoot cops. I hit a bird in flight with a fucking BB gun. Today, I can still kill from across the street. Not that I will.

I still want to know the answer to my question, why did he shoot ? To me, pulling that gun out means someone is going to die, and that don't come easy. Ask this motherfucker why he shot her, I want the answer.

T^T

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

FR

This particular shooting is a bit puzzling. It sounds as if something went very wrong with this policeman's application of procedure or his training. Unless the officer himself can explain his actions it will remain a mystery.

Of course this is a tragedy like any shooting, in particular the shooting of an innocent woman who had called the police in the first place. The worrying thing is that this adds to the number of unnecessary shootings where there must have been different options and what appears to be a problem with de-escalating situations, which suggests a wider problem with training and/or the culture in some police departments.

Given the number of police shootings in the US compared to other rich western democracies it is clear at the very least that US policemen reach for a gun and use it more frequently than other places. Inevitably where guns are used in law and order situations there are going to be mistakes and miscarriages of justice that come along with a number of these shootings. This is less a criticism of the US, more an acknowledgement that there is a problem to be addressed.

As for the spurious race/religion issue raised by the OP, it would be surprising with so many police firearms incidents that police personnel of colour did not sometimes shoot white people and that some of those shootings would be questionable. That does nothing to mitigate the fact that people of colour are disproportionately killed in police shootings, both in comparison to the population as a whole and taking crime stats into account. There is a race issue here but it's not just a race issue.

Quite apart from the appalling tragedy for this woman and her family, the overwhelming concern is what makes the police reach so often for their guns and what makes them discharge them. Statistics and experiments suggest that even black officers disproportionately shoot black men, and react differently in test situations to black and white subjects. This suggests that there is something going on which is far more subtle than the overt racism which is sometimes evident.

Leaving aside the possibility that there are a number of cops who are just very trigger happy and have no regard for human life, there is at the least a deep-seated self-preservation instinct among the police that goes wrong in real life situations. This does work disproportionately, but not entirely, against non-white suspects, even if you yourself are a black policeman. If you think that you are in a war, you will feel the need to use your gun more often, whatever the consequences.

Apart from the normal cycle of message board blame and counter-blame, there would appear to be issues here which don't have easy solutions. If you were running a police department addressing these issues would be the most difficult part of your job. How do you hire, train and prepare people to do law enforcement jobs to keep the public safe, themselves safe and ensure that situations are appropriately de-escalated to minimise the risks of things going wrong, whilst at the same time rooting out conscious and unconscious racism, incompetence and the plain criminality of (hopefully) a small number of officers?

People continue to die unnecessarily at the hands of the police, in the full glare of an unsympathetic press and public. Of course the police are blamed because their fingers are on the triggers.

No easy solutions to a hugely socially divisive issue.

Non-white officers do just as often shoot unarmed white people but there is no ratings covering it and it weakens the claims so you just don't hear about it that much.
I had the same questions so I did some research and most of what I found was news people questioning the low key approach to black officers shooting white people to the extent that if the shooter is black his race is not initially released.

I am more concerned about all victims of police shootings and what the police can do about it. I specifically referred to black officers too because they are not immune to making mistakes with a gun in their hand.

There are surely issues about de-escalation, training and strategy. We are talking about policemen, not soldiers here (and even soldiers are trained about the risks of over-reacting in patrolling civilian areas).

Being a black man makes it more likely to be shot by the Police (in proportion to the population and crime stats), but even if you took away that bias there is still a problem, epitomised by the tragic shooting of this woman, who could just as easily have been shot by a white officer.

I have sympathy for the police in doing their job in a weaponised community, but the fact is that the high number of police shootings when there could have been other outcomes is an issue that needs to be addressed if the police are going to regain and retain the trust of their communities, black or white.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

FR

This particular shooting is a bit puzzling. It sounds as if something went very wrong with this policeman's application of procedure or his training. Unless the officer himself can explain his actions it will remain a mystery.

Of course this is a tragedy like any shooting, in particular the shooting of an innocent woman who had called the police in the first place. The worrying thing is that this adds to the number of unnecessary shootings where there must have been different options and what appears to be a problem with de-escalating situations, which suggests a wider problem with training and/or the culture in some police departments.

Given the number of police shootings in the US compared to other rich western democracies it is clear at the very least that US policemen reach for a gun and use it more frequently than other places. Inevitably where guns are used in law and order situations there are going to be mistakes and miscarriages of justice that come along with a number of these shootings. This is less a criticism of the US, more an acknowledgement that there is a problem to be addressed.

As for the spurious race/religion issue raised by the OP, it would be surprising with so many police firearms incidents that police personnel of colour did not sometimes shoot white people and that some of those shootings would be questionable. That does nothing to mitigate the fact that people of colour are disproportionately killed in police shootings, both in comparison to the population as a whole and taking crime stats into account. There is a race issue here but it's not just a race issue.

Quite apart from the appalling tragedy for this woman and her family, the overwhelming concern is what makes the police reach so often for their guns and what makes them discharge them. Statistics and experiments suggest that even black officers disproportionately shoot black men, and react differently in test situations to black and white subjects. This suggests that there is something going on which is far more subtle than the overt racism which is sometimes evident.

Leaving aside the possibility that there are a number of cops who are just very trigger happy and have no regard for human life, there is at the least a deep-seated self-preservation instinct among the police that goes wrong in real life situations. This does work disproportionately, but not entirely, against non-white suspects, even if you yourself are a black policeman. If you think that you are in a war, you will feel the need to use your gun more often, whatever the consequences.

Apart from the normal cycle of message board blame and counter-blame, there would appear to be issues here which don't have easy solutions. If you were running a police department addressing these issues would be the most difficult part of your job. How do you hire, train and prepare people to do law enforcement jobs to keep the public safe, themselves safe and ensure that situations are appropriately de-escalated to minimise the risks of things going wrong, whilst at the same time rooting out conscious and unconscious racism, incompetence and the plain criminality of (hopefully) a small number of officers?

People continue to die unnecessarily at the hands of the police, in the full glare of an unsympathetic press and public. Of course the police are blamed because their fingers are on the triggers.

No easy solutions to a hugely socially divisive issue.

Non-white officers do just as often shoot unarmed white people but there is no ratings covering it and it weakens the claims so you just don't hear about it that much.
I had the same questions so I did some research and most of what I found was news people questioning the low key approach to black officers shooting white people to the extent that if the shooter is black his race is not initially released.

I am more concerned about all victims of police shootings and what the police can do about it. I specifically referred to black officers too because they are not immune to making mistakes with a gun in their hand.

There are surely issues about de-escalation, training and strategy. We are talking about policemen, not soldiers here (and even soldiers are trained about the risks of over-reacting in patrolling civilian areas).

Being a black man makes it more likely to be shot by the Police (in proportion to the population and crime stats), but even if you took away that bias there is still a problem, epitomised by the tragic shooting of this woman, who could just as easily have been shot by a white officer.

I have sympathy for the police in doing their job in a weaponised community, but the fact is that the high number of police shootings when there could have been other outcomes is an issue that needs to be addressed if the police are going to regain and retain the trust of their communities, black or white.

The higher rate of the shootings can be explained largely do to the fact that the crime rate among blacks is even a greater increase of that of others than the shooting disparity.
Don't get me wrong. A unjustified shooting in the highest crime area in the country is still wrong but it does help explain the disparity in shootings.
The more hostile contact the more shootings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

He ignored the rules, and he had the blind support of the community and the mayor.
Note, if you are able to that he thought the rules didn't apply, not that they didn't.
As I pointed out any department, even the ones with a minimal training budget would have taught them not to act like he did.
Why pray tell did he think the rules applied to him, because the fact is he ignored the rules.

Actually, he didn't. That is the sad issue here. Even white cops are trained to fire their weapon when they fear for their lives or the lives of their partners.
Neither you nor I have access to what he thought in the moment. It is presumptuous of you to make such a declaration. And once having decided from your magisterial perch that he ignored the rules (you knew what he was thinking) you then go on to make the assertion (being omniscient as you are) that he thought that way because he was a minority.

Class AA deep south racism. He's a nigger. He broke a rule (he didn't) Must be because he is a nigger. Hell, don't sugarcoat your racism. Bull Conner would be ashamed of your reticence.

quote:

Just for starters he didn't turn on his body cam.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Just for starters he didn't turn on his body cam.

Neither did the white cop. But he gets a pass, hey? Hmmm, I wonder why, Bull.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

He ignored the rules, and he had the blind support of the community and the mayor.
Note, if you are able to that he thought the rules didn't apply, not that they didn't.
As I pointed out any department, even the ones with a minimal training budget would have taught them not to act like he did.
Why pray tell did he think the rules applied to him, because the fact is he ignored the rules.

Actually, he didn't. That is the sad issue here. Even white cops are trained to fire their weapon when they fear for their lives or the lives of their partners.
Neither you nor I have access to what he thought in the moment. It is presumptuous of you to make such a declaration. And once having decided from your magisterial perch that he ignored the rules (you knew what he was thinking) you then go on to make the assertion (being omniscient as you are) that he thought that way because he was a minority.

Class AA deep south racism. He's a nigger. He broke a rule (he didn't) Must be because he is a nigger. Hell, don't sugarcoat your racism. Bull Conner would be ashamed of your reticence.

quote:

Just for starters he didn't turn on his body cam.

Neither did the white cop. But he gets a pass, hey? Hmmm, I wonder why, Bull.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

When hiring for diversity you overlook those things. With 2 open complaints against him his status was
questionable to start with. When the objective is to get more minorities and there aren't that many minorities applying they have to take chances.
This isn't a matter of his training, even the most poorly fund dept in the country will teach you not to do what he did, but being a minority the rules (in his mind ) didn't apply to him.

That last line especially demonstrates your racism. Unbelievable.

He ignored the rules, and he had the blind support of the community and the mayor.
Note, if you are able to that he thought the rules didn't apply, not that they didn't.
As I pointed out any department, even the ones with a minimal training budget would have taught them not to act like he did.
Why pray tell did he think the rules applied to him, because the fact is he ignored the rules.

Actually, he didn't. That is the sad issue here. Even white cops are trained to fire their weapon when they fear for their lives or the lives of their partners.
Neither you nor I have access to what he thought in the moment. It is presumptuous of you to make such a declaration. And once having decided from your magisterial perch that he ignored the rules (you knew what he was thinking) you then go on to make the assertion (being omniscient as you are) that he thought that way because he was a minority.

Class AA deep south racism. He's a nigger. He broke a rule (he didn't) Must be because he is a nigger. Hell, don't sugarcoat your racism. Bull Conner would be ashamed of your reticence.

quote:

Just for starters he didn't turn on his body cam.

Neither did the white cop. But he gets a pass, hey? Hmmm, I wonder why, Bull.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

I find this so darn interesting to see what the reaction of the proverbial shoe on the other foot looks like on here.

here a white woman dies by the hands of a police officer who happened to be Black not much if not the same way many Black men got killed by a police officer who happened to be white.

namely "suspicious circumstances". I'm already hearing the excuses here for why this officer should be made the example of, that miraculously somehow didn't apply to the other victim's of the same fate.

I mean, its the officers word vs. a dead person - tie goes to the officer, right??

I'm waiting to see if she has any alcohol in her system the cops can blame her lack of compliance with orders on...... no orders? oh, lets blame her pj's having a hoodie on it then.

gees.... what a wimp she was, only took one bullet to kill her,..... took 7 bullets to kill a guy up here last year..... both had empty hands....go figure.

union?? he don't need no stinkin union to save him!! he'll just use the "he feared for his life." defense and that should just clear up everything!!

but wait!! hold the phone!! the officer is what?? Black?.... AND Muslim?? .....jinkies!!

NOW we'd better change the rules of who gets to wear a gun!! Blame affirmative action!! Blame immigration!! Blame the college system that allows people to come from other professions and not have the 2 year law enforcement degree that didn't make a difference in the killers of many if not all of the Black Men before this.

Got to blame training somehow even though that didn't seem to make a difference in the killing of a Black Man by a cop who choked him to death, or the man who dies after a ride in a police van broke his neck. Or maybe the cop who pumped 8 shots into the back of a fleeing Black Man and lied about it because he knew it'd of been "cop said, dead cant".... oh wait, that cop got convicted only after a video surfaced showing the whole incident, including showing the cop also planting his backup gun on him AFTER he dies...

yup.... gptta be training issues!

we have to go back to white officers killing Black Men so people like boss-hoe & bamad can be comfortable again. after all, isn't that what really matters?

Wow you get so many things wrong.
He wasn't choked to death, he died from excessive resistance bringing on a heart attack.
They couldn't get an indictment because they grossly overcharged.
The driver and his partner violated safety guidelines and again got off because of gross overcharging.
The third one has been charged and they can't overcharge unless they go for genocide.
Again it is you, and not me who cares about race.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Class AA deep south racism. He's a nigger. He broke a rule (he didn't) Must be because he is a nigger. Hell, don't sugarcoat your racism. Bull Conner would be ashamed of your reticence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Class AA deep south racism. He's a nigger. He broke a rule (he didn't) Must be because he is a nigger. Hell, don't sugarcoat your racism. Bull Conner would be ashamed of your reticence.

on the whole, bama shows remarkable and gentle restraint with you. in reality, you deserve to have your ass kicked.

quote:

Simple, they are required to turn on the body cams when they see any chance of violence, the white cop didn't see any.
Remember he was surprised when this guy started shooting.
Your earlier outburst was to bigoted to understand that if he was hired to fill a quota that was the departments fault, not his.