quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

~FR~

In Minneapolis black activists and young whites have been leaders in protesting the killing of Ms Damond.

Whatever one thinks about their tactics, the group of protesters that interrupted that media conference on Friday was diverse, with a large contingent of young white protesters and several long-time black activists in the lead. Was this is a new trend that Criss and Love had missed?

The truth is that black activists have been at the forefront since day one.

Last Saturday night, Damond, a 40-year-old spiritual healer from Sydney, Australia, called 911 to report a possible sexual assault. She was in her pyjamas when she approached the Minneapolis squad car that responded. Officer Mohamed Noor, who was in the passenger seat, shot her through the driver’s side window.

While it’s impossible to paint activists of color with one brush – they have different approaches, tactics, affiliations and ideologies – those rallying around the Diamond shooting share a belief that her death was caused by the kind of police violence they have been working to stop. They also believe that as, community members, they have a duty to show up.

The influence of such activists could have been missed by outside observers. While they support the larger movement for police reform and racial equity, they do not necessarily fall under the easily Googled banner of “Black Lives Matter”. BLM has a chapter in Minneapolis that has at times been hugely influential. But it is far from the only group working on issues related to police shootings.

Shaun King, a columnist with the New York Daily News who covers police brutality and Black Lives Matter, says critics questioning the willingness of black activists to address police violence against white victims often do so in error.

The diversity of protesters in Minneapolis was impossible to miss on Thursday, as hundreds marched through Damond’s neighborhood. Also clear was the thread that so many saw connecting Damond’s death with that of Philando Castile. His mother, Valerie Castile, hugged Dom Damond, Justine’s fiance. John Thompson, a friend and coworker of Castile who became an activist after his death, gave an impassioned speech, as he has at many other protests over the last year.

In a media conference on Wednesday, assistant police chief Medaria Arradondo, who is now set to become chief, addressed the “trigger happy” charge by pointing to a move the department made last year to require officers to use de-escalation tactics, and to resort to force only as as a last resort. The “sanctity of life” was a guiding principle for how Minneapolis police officers interact with the public, he said.

On Thursday, then police chief Janeé Harteau disavowed Noor’s conduct, saying Damon “didn’t have to die”. What happened was the result of an “individual officer’s actions”, she said, frustrating activists who believe systemic changes are needed.

Another common belief among activists of color protesting Damond’s case is that it might lead to change that could benefit the city. Since Damond was a white woman who lived in a wealthy and influential neighborhood, and since the government of Australia is now supporting her family, they hope the case will at least force the city and police leaders to consider new reforms.

“I just hope that the people from that community rise up,” said Jones. “Her death does not have to be in vain, this tragedy can help the entire city take a serious look at how the police treat communities.


Some snips in the posting.

SOURCE

A You ignore the fact that nobody sees this as a justified shooting.
B You want to pretend that this makes everyone but the black guy responsible for what happened.
C Say just once that his action violated not only procedures but common sense.
D Like the close minded person you are you try to pretend that anyone who disagrees with you
must only oppose this because he is black. I know that when I read this I thought he was a moron,
at best before I knew he was black. You do know that not all Moslems are black don't you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

FR

This particular shooting is a bit puzzling. It sounds as if something went very wrong with this policeman's application of procedure or his training. Unless the officer himself can explain his actions it will remain a mystery.

Of course this is a tragedy like any shooting, in particular the shooting of an innocent woman who had called the police in the first place. The worrying thing is that this adds to the number of unnecessary shootings where there must have been different options and what appears to be a problem with de-escalating situations, which suggests a wider problem with training and/or the culture in some police departments.

Given the number of police shootings in the US compared to other rich western democracies it is clear at the very least that US policemen reach for a gun and use it more frequently than other places. Inevitably where guns are used in law and order situations there are going to be mistakes and miscarriages of justice that come along with a number of these shootings. This is less a criticism of the US, more an acknowledgement that there is a problem to be addressed.

As for the spurious race/religion issue raised by the OP, it would be surprising with so many police firearms incidents that police personnel of colour did not sometimes shoot white people and that some of those shootings would be questionable. That does nothing to mitigate the fact that people of colour are disproportionately killed in police shootings, both in comparison to the population as a whole and taking crime stats into account. There is a race issue here but it's not just a race issue.

Quite apart from the appalling tragedy for this woman and her family, the overwhelming concern is what makes the police reach so often for their guns and what makes them discharge them. Statistics and experiments suggest that even black officers disproportionately shoot black men, and react differently in test situations to black and white subjects. This suggests that there is something going on which is far more subtle than the overt racism which is sometimes evident.

Leaving aside the possibility that there are a number of cops who are just very trigger happy and have no regard for human life, there is at the least a deep-seated self-preservation instinct among the police that goes wrong in real life situations. This does work disproportionately, but not entirely, against non-white suspects, even if you yourself are a black policeman. If you think that you are in a war, you will feel the need to use your gun more often, whatever the consequences.

Apart from the normal cycle of message board blame and counter-blame, there would appear to be issues here which don't have easy solutions. If you were running a police department addressing these issues would be the most difficult part of your job. How do you hire, train and prepare people to do law enforcement jobs to keep the public safe, themselves safe and ensure that situations are appropriately de-escalated to minimise the risks of things going wrong, whilst at the same time rooting out conscious and unconscious racism, incompetence and the plain criminality of (hopefully) a small number of officers?

People continue to die unnecessarily at the hands of the police, in the full glare of an unsympathetic press and public. Of course the police are blamed because their fingers are on the triggers.

No easy solutions to a hugely socially divisive issue.

Non-white officers do just as often shoot unarmed white people but there is no ratings covering it and it weakens the claims so you just don't hear about it that much.
I had the same questions so I did some research and most of what I found was news people questioning the low key approach to black officers shooting white people to the extent that if the shooter is black his race is not initially released.

I am more concerned about all victims of police shootings and what the police can do about it. I specifically referred to black officers too because they are not immune to making mistakes with a gun in their hand.

There are surely issues about de-escalation, training and strategy. We are talking about policemen, not soldiers here (and even soldiers are trained about the risks of over-reacting in patrolling civilian areas).

Being a black man makes it more likely to be shot by the Police (in proportion to the population and crime stats), but even if you took away that bias there is still a problem, epitomised by the tragic shooting of this woman, who could just as easily have been shot by a white officer.

I have sympathy for the police in doing their job in a weaponised community, but the fact is that the high number of police shootings when there could have been other outcomes is an issue that needs to be addressed if the police are going to regain and retain the trust of their communities, black or white.

The higher rate of the shootings can be explained largely do to the fact that the crime rate among blacks is even a greater increase of that of others than the shooting disparity.
Don't get me wrong. A unjustified shooting in the highest crime area in the country is still wrong but it does help explain the disparity in shootings.
The more hostile contact the more shootings.

None of what you said is any grounds for complacency.

One - there is a problem with how the police use their weapons, especially in situations which might otherwise have been de-escalated.

Two - the higher rate of police shootings of non-white subjects is out of proportion with both the size of the non-white population and the related crime rates. In other words the number of police shootings is higher than would be suggested by higher crime rates.

Incidentally, just to prevent widening the debate in the thread out to much, I have tried to keep to police shootings and not tried to examine why non-white people commit more crime in the US and Western Europe. I haven't even touched on the relationship between income and crime, the lower average pay of people of colour and the inevitable consequence of not tackling deprivation in black communities. Add to the fact that in the US a black man is more likely to be arrested, convicted and given a custodial sentence for the same crime as a white man, and the you start to destroy the myth that black people are somehow culturally more likely to commit crime. Truth is differential crime figures reduce when people have similar income and opportunities, but that is not the point I was trying to make in this thread.

I am just asking the questions in relation to my first point about what the police can do to respond better so that fewer people die as a result of upholding the law. It's a sincere attempt to concentrate on positive solutions rather than throw blame around.

It is out of proportion to the population, but not he crime rate. The majorities of murders in this country are committed by blacks.
Not I said means that there is cause for complacency, one unjustified shooting is too many, and the race involved is not important.

quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

FR

This particular shooting is a bit puzzling. It sounds as if something went very wrong with this policeman's application of procedure or his training. Unless the officer himself can explain his actions it will remain a mystery.

Of course this is a tragedy like any shooting, in particular the shooting of an innocent woman who had called the police in the first place. The worrying thing is that this adds to the number of unnecessary shootings where there must have been different options and what appears to be a problem with de-escalating situations, which suggests a wider problem with training and/or the culture in some police departments.

Given the number of police shootings in the US compared to other rich western democracies it is clear at the very least that US policemen reach for a gun and use it more frequently than other places. Inevitably where guns are used in law and order situations there are going to be mistakes and miscarriages of justice that come along with a number of these shootings. This is less a criticism of the US, more an acknowledgement that there is a problem to be addressed.

As for the spurious race/religion issue raised by the OP, it would be surprising with so many police firearms incidents that police personnel of colour did not sometimes shoot white people and that some of those shootings would be questionable. That does nothing to mitigate the fact that people of colour are disproportionately killed in police shootings, both in comparison to the population as a whole and taking crime stats into account. There is a race issue here but it's not just a race issue.

Quite apart from the appalling tragedy for this woman and her family, the overwhelming concern is what makes the police reach so often for their guns and what makes them discharge them. Statistics and experiments suggest that even black officers disproportionately shoot black men, and react differently in test situations to black and white subjects. This suggests that there is something going on which is far more subtle than the overt racism which is sometimes evident.

Leaving aside the possibility that there are a number of cops who are just very trigger happy and have no regard for human life, there is at the least a deep-seated self-preservation instinct among the police that goes wrong in real life situations. This does work disproportionately, but not entirely, against non-white suspects, even if you yourself are a black policeman. If you think that you are in a war, you will feel the need to use your gun more often, whatever the consequences.

Apart from the normal cycle of message board blame and counter-blame, there would appear to be issues here which don't have easy solutions. If you were running a police department addressing these issues would be the most difficult part of your job. How do you hire, train and prepare people to do law enforcement jobs to keep the public safe, themselves safe and ensure that situations are appropriately de-escalated to minimise the risks of things going wrong, whilst at the same time rooting out conscious and unconscious racism, incompetence and the plain criminality of (hopefully) a small number of officers?

People continue to die unnecessarily at the hands of the police, in the full glare of an unsympathetic press and public. Of course the police are blamed because their fingers are on the triggers.

No easy solutions to a hugely socially divisive issue.

Non-white officers do just as often shoot unarmed white people but there is no ratings covering it and it weakens the claims so you just don't hear about it that much.
I had the same questions so I did some research and most of what I found was news people questioning the low key approach to black officers shooting white people to the extent that if the shooter is black his race is not initially released.

I am more concerned about all victims of police shootings and what the police can do about it. I specifically referred to black officers too because they are not immune to making mistakes with a gun in their hand.

There are surely issues about de-escalation, training and strategy. We are talking about policemen, not soldiers here (and even soldiers are trained about the risks of over-reacting in patrolling civilian areas).

Being a black man makes it more likely to be shot by the Police (in proportion to the population and crime stats), but even if you took away that bias there is still a problem, epitomised by the tragic shooting of this woman, who could just as easily have been shot by a white officer.

I have sympathy for the police in doing their job in a weaponised community, but the fact is that the high number of police shootings when there could have been other outcomes is an issue that needs to be addressed if the police are going to regain and retain the trust of their communities, black or white.

The higher rate of the shootings can be explained largely do to the fact that the crime rate among blacks is even a greater increase of that of others than the shooting disparity.
Don't get me wrong. A unjustified shooting in the highest crime area in the country is still wrong but it does help explain the disparity in shootings.
The more hostile contact the more shootings.

None of what you said is any grounds for complacency.

One - there is a problem with how the police use their weapons, especially in situations which might otherwise have been de-escalated.

Two - the higher rate of police shootings of non-white subjects is out of proportion with both the size of the non-white population and the related crime rates. In other words the number of police shootings is higher than would be suggested by higher crime rates.

Incidentally, just to prevent widening the debate in the thread out to much, I have tried to keep to police shootings and not tried to examine why non-white people commit more crime in the US and Western Europe. I haven't even touched on the relationship between income and crime, the lower average pay of people of colour and the inevitable consequence of not tackling deprivation in black communities. Add to the fact that in the US a black man is more likely to be arrested, convicted and given a custodial sentence for the same crime as a white man, and the you start to destroy the myth that black people are somehow culturally more likely to commit crime. Truth is differential crime figures reduce when people have similar income and opportunities, but that is not the point I was trying to make in this thread.

I am just asking the questions in relation to my first point about what the police can do to respond better so that fewer people die as a result of upholding the law. It's a sincere attempt to concentrate on positive solutions rather than throw blame around.

It is out of proportion to the population, but not he crime rate. The majorities of murders in this country are committed by blacks.
Not I said means that there is cause for complacency, one unjustified shooting is too many, and the race involved is not important.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

the vast majority of homicide victims are killed by people of their own race. People tend to kill who they know. You hurt people who are a lot like you, that's how it works"
"
says David Kennedy a professor and director of the National Network for Safe Communities, at John Jay college of Criminal Justice in NYC.


Id post more but I gotta go to work.......

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
I was making two main points.
One - there is a problem with how the police use their weapons, especially in situations which might otherwise have been de-escalated.

quote:

Two - the higher rate of police shootings of non-white subjects is out of proportion with both the size of the non-white population and the related crime rates. In other words the number of police shootings is higher than would be suggested by higher crime rates.

quote:

I am just asking the questions in relation to my first point about what the police can do to respond better so that fewer people die as a result of upholding the law. It's a sincere attempt to concentrate on positive solutions rather than throw blame around.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Unlike some on here, I don't give a shit about the skin color(s) of those involved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
I was making two main points.
One - there is a problem with how the police use their weapons, especially in situations which might otherwise have been de-escalated.

How many police contacts end in shootings?

quote:

Two - the higher rate of police shootings of non-white subjects is out of proportion with both the size of the non-white population and the related crime rates. In other words the number of police shootings is higher than would be suggested by higher crime rates.

What are the demographics where the shootings occur? If you lump shootings in Detroit with shootings in rural Iowa, say, that might skew the data towards a higher % of blacks shot as compared to the % of blacks in the population.

quote:

I am just asking the questions in relation to my first point about what the police can do to respond better so that fewer people die as a result of upholding the law. It's a sincere attempt to concentrate on positive solutions rather than throw blame around.

It's a damn shame when a person is shot by police, unless that person was shot because he/she was actively attempting to kill or harm others. Unlike some on here, I don't give a shit about the skin color(s) of those involved. It's a damn shame when the person shot is black, brown, white, red, yellow, purple, etc. It's even worse when the person that got shot is innocent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

~FR~

In Minneapolis black activists and young whites have been leaders in protesting the killing of Ms Damond.

Whatever one thinks about their tactics, the group of protesters that interrupted that media conference on Friday was diverse, with a large contingent of young white protesters and several long-time black activists in the lead. Was this is a new trend that Criss and Love had missed?

The truth is that black activists have been at the forefront since day one.

Last Saturday night, Damond, a 40-year-old spiritual healer from Sydney, Australia, called 911 to report a possible sexual assault. She was in her pyjamas when she approached the Minneapolis squad car that responded. Officer Mohamed Noor, who was in the passenger seat, shot her through the driver’s side window.

While it’s impossible to paint activists of color with one brush – they have different approaches, tactics, affiliations and ideologies – those rallying around the Diamond shooting share a belief that her death was caused by the kind of police violence they have been working to stop. They also believe that as, community members, they have a duty to show up.

The influence of such activists could have been missed by outside observers. While they support the larger movement for police reform and racial equity, they do not necessarily fall under the easily Googled banner of “Black Lives Matter”. BLM has a chapter in Minneapolis that has at times been hugely influential. But it is far from the only group working on issues related to police shootings.

Shaun King, a columnist with the New York Daily News who covers police brutality and Black Lives Matter, says critics questioning the willingness of black activists to address police violence against white victims often do so in error.

The diversity of protesters in Minneapolis was impossible to miss on Thursday, as hundreds marched through Damond’s neighborhood. Also clear was the thread that so many saw connecting Damond’s death with that of Philando Castile. His mother, Valerie Castile, hugged Dom Damond, Justine’s fiance. John Thompson, a friend and coworker of Castile who became an activist after his death, gave an impassioned speech, as he has at many other protests over the last year.

In a media conference on Wednesday, assistant police chief Medaria Arradondo, who is now set to become chief, addressed the “trigger happy” charge by pointing to a move the department made last year to require officers to use de-escalation tactics, and to resort to force only as as a last resort. The “sanctity of life” was a guiding principle for how Minneapolis police officers interact with the public, he said.

On Thursday, then police chief Janeé Harteau disavowed Noor’s conduct, saying Damon “didn’t have to die”. What happened was the result of an “individual officer’s actions”, she said, frustrating activists who believe systemic changes are needed.

Another common belief among activists of color protesting Damond’s case is that it might lead to change that could benefit the city. Since Damond was a white woman who lived in a wealthy and influential neighborhood, and since the government of Australia is now supporting her family, they hope the case will at least force the city and police leaders to consider new reforms.

“I just hope that the people from that community rise up,” said Jones. “Her death does not have to be in vain, this tragedy can help the entire city take a serious look at how the police treat communities.


Some snips in the posting.

SOURCE

A You ignore the fact that nobody sees this as a justified shooting.
B You want to pretend that this makes everyone but the black guy responsible for what happened.
C Say just once that his action violated not only procedures but common sense.
D Like the close minded person you are you try to pretend that anyone who disagrees with you
must only oppose this because he is black. I know that when I read this I thought he was a moron,
at best before I knew he was black. You do know that not all Moslems are black don't you?

I don't know what your desperate answers have to do with the news of community reaction. You are a weird duck indeed.

I will say once again that police procedure requires offensive action when the police officer is in fear for his life or the lives of other officers. He heard a loud noise and saw someone come up to the left door of the car, the same direction of the noise. His reaction seems to fit protocol. Maybe protocol is the problem. But I don't see how that can be changed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

FR

This particular shooting is a bit puzzling. It sounds as if something went very wrong with this policeman's application of procedure or his training. Unless the officer himself can explain his actions it will remain a mystery.

Of course this is a tragedy like any shooting, in particular the shooting of an innocent woman who had called the police in the first place. The worrying thing is that this adds to the number of unnecessary shootings where there must have been different options and what appears to be a problem with de-escalating situations, which suggests a wider problem with training and/or the culture in some police departments.

Given the number of police shootings in the US compared to other rich western democracies it is clear at the very least that US policemen reach for a gun and use it more frequently than other places. Inevitably where guns are used in law and order situations there are going to be mistakes and miscarriages of justice that come along with a number of these shootings. This is less a criticism of the US, more an acknowledgement that there is a problem to be addressed.

As for the spurious race/religion issue raised by the OP, it would be surprising with so many police firearms incidents that police personnel of colour did not sometimes shoot white people and that some of those shootings would be questionable. That does nothing to mitigate the fact that people of colour are disproportionately killed in police shootings, both in comparison to the population as a whole and taking crime stats into account. There is a race issue here but it's not just a race issue.

Quite apart from the appalling tragedy for this woman and her family, the overwhelming concern is what makes the police reach so often for their guns and what makes them discharge them. Statistics and experiments suggest that even black officers disproportionately shoot black men, and react differently in test situations to black and white subjects. This suggests that there is something going on which is far more subtle than the overt racism which is sometimes evident.

Leaving aside the possibility that there are a number of cops who are just very trigger happy and have no regard for human life, there is at the least a deep-seated self-preservation instinct among the police that goes wrong in real life situations. This does work disproportionately, but not entirely, against non-white suspects, even if you yourself are a black policeman. If you think that you are in a war, you will feel the need to use your gun more often, whatever the consequences.

Apart from the normal cycle of message board blame and counter-blame, there would appear to be issues here which don't have easy solutions. If you were running a police department addressing these issues would be the most difficult part of your job. How do you hire, train and prepare people to do law enforcement jobs to keep the public safe, themselves safe and ensure that situations are appropriately de-escalated to minimise the risks of things going wrong, whilst at the same time rooting out conscious and unconscious racism, incompetence and the plain criminality of (hopefully) a small number of officers?

People continue to die unnecessarily at the hands of the police, in the full glare of an unsympathetic press and public. Of course the police are blamed because their fingers are on the triggers.

No easy solutions to a hugely socially divisive issue.

Non-white officers do just as often shoot unarmed white people but there is no ratings covering it and it weakens the claims so you just don't hear about it that much.
I had the same questions so I did some research and most of what I found was news people questioning the low key approach to black officers shooting white people to the extent that if the shooter is black his race is not initially released.

I am more concerned about all victims of police shootings and what the police can do about it. I specifically referred to black officers too because they are not immune to making mistakes with a gun in their hand.

There are surely issues about de-escalation, training and strategy. We are talking about policemen, not soldiers here (and even soldiers are trained about the risks of over-reacting in patrolling civilian areas).

Being a black man makes it more likely to be shot by the Police (in proportion to the population and crime stats), but even if you took away that bias there is still a problem, epitomised by the tragic shooting of this woman, who could just as easily have been shot by a white officer.

I have sympathy for the police in doing their job in a weaponised community, but the fact is that the high number of police shootings when there could have been other outcomes is an issue that needs to be addressed if the police are going to regain and retain the trust of their communities, black or white.

The higher rate of the shootings can be explained largely do to the fact that the crime rate among blacks is even a greater increase of that of others than the shooting disparity.
Don't get me wrong. A unjustified shooting in the highest crime area in the country is still wrong but it does help explain the disparity in shootings.
The more hostile contact the more shootings.

None of what you said is any grounds for complacency.

One - there is a problem with how the police use their weapons, especially in situations which might otherwise have been de-escalated.

Two - the higher rate of police shootings of non-white subjects is out of proportion with both the size of the non-white population and the related crime rates. In other words the number of police shootings is higher than would be suggested by higher crime rates.

Incidentally, just to prevent widening the debate in the thread out to much, I have tried to keep to police shootings and not tried to examine why non-white people commit more crime in the US and Western Europe. I haven't even touched on the relationship between income and crime, the lower average pay of people of colour and the inevitable consequence of not tackling deprivation in black communities. Add to the fact that in the US a black man is more likely to be arrested, convicted and given a custodial sentence for the same crime as a white man, and the you start to destroy the myth that black people are somehow culturally more likely to commit crime. Truth is differential crime figures reduce when people have similar income and opportunities, but that is not the point I was trying to make in this thread.

I am just asking the questions in relation to my first point about what the police can do to respond better so that fewer people die as a result of upholding the law. It's a sincere attempt to concentrate on positive solutions rather than throw blame around.

It is out of proportion to the population, but not he crime rate. The majorities of murders in this country are committed by blacks.
Not I said means that there is cause for complacency, one unjustified shooting is too many, and the race involved is not important.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

the vast majority of homicide victims are killed by people of their own race. People tend to kill who they know. You hurt people who are a lot like you, that's how it works"
"
says David Kennedy a professor and director of the National Network for Safe Communities, at John Jay college of Criminal Justice in NYC.


Id post more but I gotta go to work.......

Does that mean that the majority of murders being committed by blacks isn't so bad since they mainly kill other blacks?
Regardless of who the victims are the cops still have to deal with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Unlike some on here, I don't give a shit about the skin color(s) of those involved.

That's mighty white of you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I assume by innocent you mean haven't done anything to bring it on themselves. Like when told to put their hands up reach under their jacket as if reaching for a shoulder holster.
Then it is tragic because it happened but understandable because they did something stupid.
As opposed to this case where there is no justification to be seen.
I think that a lot of the problem is an easy one to fall into. We need to look at the micro case, not the macro.
We you have a case like this and insist in holding all cops equally guilty you have lost before you start.
By the same token if each black or other minority must have deserved it because most murders are committed by blacks
you have lost out before you start.
If you make your decision base on race whether in hiring or guilt you are being the vary thing you claim to hate.
There are many things that come into play besides race. For example when the coroner says the "victim" was high on PCP
at the time of death you won't get a guilty verdict period.
How many time do we hear the cop feared for his safety? Don't people know that is the definition of self defense if you aren't a cop?
Of course you need to demonstrate why.
I was recently told what a stupid plea this was (so the jury was racist) when there was no question but that the cop was being attacked
by an unstable person with a baseball bat, and the jury should have dismissed the attack BECAUSE THE PERSON AND THUS MORE
DANGEROUS THAT THE AVERAGE PERSON.
Then there are those who will try to justify a shooting with something like a car backfired.
Individuals do shootings like this, or stupid things like put their hands where the cops can't see them.
All cops don't do this, all blacks don't either. The thing is to find what goes wrong each time and fix it.
As long as you think that you fix what an idiot does by going after everyone all you do is create resistance.
I am not going after you this was just something I wanted to get off my chest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

by 'innocent,' I meant that the person hasn't done anything wrong.

In the case in the OP, unless there is some proof that race had anything to do with the cop shooting the woman, skin color of those involved do not matter at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I assume by innocent you mean haven't done anything to bring it on themselves. Like when told to put their hands up reach under their jacket as if reaching for a shoulder holster.
Then it is tragic because it happened but understandable because they did something stupid.
As opposed to this case where there is no justification to be seen.
I think that a lot of the problem is an easy one to fall into. We need to look at the micro case, not the macro.
We you have a case like this and insist in holding all cops equally guilty you have lost before you start.
By the same token if each black or other minority must have deserved it because most murders are committed by blacks
you have lost out before you start.
If you make your decision base on race whether in hiring or guilt you are being the vary thing you claim to hate.
There are many things that come into play besides race. For example when the coroner says the "victim" was high on PCP
at the time of death you won't get a guilty verdict period.
How many time do we hear the cop feared for his safety? Don't people know that is the definition of self defense if you aren't a cop?
Of course you need to demonstrate why.
I was recently told what a stupid plea this was (so the jury was racist) when there was no question but that the cop was being attacked
by an unstable person with a baseball bat, and the jury should have dismissed the attack BECAUSE THE PERSON AND THUS MORE
DANGEROUS THAT THE AVERAGE PERSON.
Then there are those who will try to justify a shooting with something like a car backfired.
Individuals do shootings like this, or stupid things like put their hands where the cops can't see them.
All cops don't do this, all blacks don't either. The thing is to find what goes wrong each time and fix it.
As long as you think that you fix what an idiot does by going after everyone all you do is create resistance.
I am not going after you this was just something I wanted to get off my chest.

by 'innocent,' I meant that the person hasn't done anything wrong.

In the case in the OP, unless there is some proof that race had anything to do with the cop shooting the woman, skin color of those involved do not matter at all.

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Skin color and sexual orientation are all that matters to Black Lies Madder terrorists and their their provocateurs and supporters on the left. They also preach very ugly things about the police...

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Skin color and sexual orientation are all that matters to Black Lies Madder terrorists and their their provocateurs and supporters on the left. They also preach very ugly things about the police...

Black community activists were very involved in organizing a community vigil for Ms. Damond. So skin color and sexual orientation were not issues to BLM.

And what ugly things do they preach about police? Please do enlighten us on the meaning of your hateful rhetoric.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Skin color and sexual orientation are all that matters to Black Lies Madder terrorists and their their provocateurs and supporters on the left. They also preach very ugly things about the police...

Black community activists were very involved in organizing a community vigil for Ms. Damond. So skin color and sexual orientation were not issues to BLM.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Skin color and sexual orientation are all that matters to Black Lies Madder terrorists and their their provocateurs and supporters on the left. They also preach very ugly things about the police...

Black community activists were very involved in organizing a community vigil for Ms. Damond. So skin color and sexual orientation were not issues to BLM.

And what ugly things do they preach about police? Please do enlighten us on the meaning of your hateful rhetoric.

They are in agreement with your absurd assumption that the police are out to kill as many black people as they can get away with, I think that is kind of ugly.
And pigs in a blanket showed so much love for the police.

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causal

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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causal

Spot the social scientist. I keep seeing/writing 'causal' when it should be 'casual', and vice versa, too. ;)

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A causal observer could be forgiven for thinking that the consequences for killing an innocent white woman are far greater than those for killing equally innocent blacks