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Role of the Federal, State, Local governments during di... - 8/25/2017 9:00:50 PM   
Marini


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Question: What is/ or should be the role of federal, state and local governments before, during and after natural disasters?

Hurricane Harvey landed around 10:00 p.m. this evening, it is ashore and could be a Cat 4.
This could be a record breaking storm, in which the rain lasts at least a week!

There are thousands of websites that state more or less what "should" be the role of federal, state and local governments during disasters,
but many of the "roles" are gray area's at best.

We have been bombarded with news about Hurricane Harvey for at least 10 days.
People that live in the hurricane path have been encouraged to evacuate for at least a week.
Should people HAVE to evacuate?

Also, should the government go all out to attempt to save those that made no attempt to evacuate?

Even after Katrina, it appears a certain amount of people that are poor/disabled/or without adequate resources, don't leave because they don't have anyone
to help them.

The ACPCA states that 30% don't leave because of their pets.
Many can't stand to leave their pets behind, or they don't know what to do with their pets during an evacuation.
WHY IS THAT?
Can't the government set up systems and places for people to go with pets, and make it widely known and available, far in advance?

Why can't the government provide Ubers, U-Hauls, vans and cars for those that can't afford them/and or need help gathering possessions BEFORE the storm?
Also, many people evacuate and stay in schools, campgrounds, etc.
Can't the government/and "GOD" forbid, greedy corporate bastards put people up in hotels for half price or free during these times?
Many people have physical, medical or mental disabilities and they should not have to live in a school or campground for days/weeks.

Why is it after every natural disaster I have witnessed in my lifetime, that I felt that the American citizens should have been provided with more?
Both BEFORE and AFTER the natural disaster.
I am curious to see the support and assistance that will be given to those in Texas.
Short term and Long Term Support
Should your economic situation before a natural disaster impact how you will "live through/or get by" during an emergency?
Humm

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/25/2017 9:26:20 PM >


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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/25/2017 9:25:45 PM   
BoscoX


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Yeah... In this, the age of ManBearPig, every storm is going to be a "record breaking storm"

Wolves in every crowded theater anymore

Not saying it won't be bad, I have relatives in the path. I don't know, I hope it's not bad. Just saying they have been grossly exaggerating these things in the past

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/25/2017 9:29:47 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


Yeah... In this, the age of ManBearPig, every storm is going to be a "record breaking storm"

Wolves in every crowded theater anymore

Not saying it won't be bad, I have relatives in the path. I don't know, I hope it's not bad. Just saying they have been grossly exaggerating these things in the past



How much help should the poor and disabled be provided with before disasters?
Free Ubers, vans, cars, u-hauls, free hotels, etc. in advance, just in case?
Isn't it better to error on providing adequate or more assistance than necessary, in advance?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/25/2017 9:32:41 PM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


Yeah... In this, the age of ManBearPig, every storm is going to be a "record breaking storm"

Wolves in every crowded theater anymore

Not saying it won't be bad, I have relatives in the path. I don't know, I hope it's not bad. Just saying they have been grossly exaggerating these things in the past



How much help should the poor and disabled be provided with before disasters?
Free Ubers, vans, cars, u-hauls, free hotels, etc. in advance, just in case?
Isn't it better to error on providing adequate or more assistance than necessary, in advance?


The state should offer to bus them out in school buses and provide for their needs until the chaos passes, but many don't even consider leaving because there have been so many false alarms. Those I know worked up until noon today and haven't even considered leaving

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/25/2017 9:36:33 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


Yeah... In this, the age of ManBearPig, every storm is going to be a "record breaking storm"

Wolves in every crowded theater anymore

Not saying it won't be bad, I have relatives in the path. I don't know, I hope it's not bad. Just saying they have been grossly exaggerating these things in the past



How much help should the poor and disabled be provided with before disasters?
Free Ubers, vans, cars, u-hauls, free hotels, etc. in advance, just in case?
Isn't it better to error on providing adequate or more assistance than necessary, in advance?


The state should offer to bus them out in school buses and provide for their needs until the chaos passes, but many don't even consider leaving because there have been so many false alarms. Those I know worked up until noon today and haven't even considered leaving


SCHOOL BUSES!!!
Not even greyhound or megabuses????

Situations like this, puts CAPITALISM right in your face, buddy.

I lived in Florida a few years, and I had to evacuate in 1999 for Hurricane Irene.
I used to live in Jacksonville, which is less than an hour to Georgia.
We had planned on staying, but people were banging on doors, saying everyone had to leave.
I remember having to "decide" what to take with us, and put in the car.
What if we did not have a car?
The traffic was insane, it took us hours just to make it to Georgia.
It was crazy, people were running out of gas, the hotels were full.

We went to a school and it was super hot in there, kids running around, babies crying, a lot of noise, we were exhausted,
and would have to sleep on the floor next to strangers.
There were "all types of people" in there, and many I would not feel safe closing my eyes around.
No real security in the place.
I told my ex-husband I would rather sleep in the car.
We went to a campsite and slept until it was safe to go back to Jacksonville.

This was almost 20 years ago, I can't imagine what seniors, poor, those without a car, disabled, etc. go through without a lot of support.

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/25/2017 9:48:59 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/25/2017 9:52:00 PM   
MakeM3Urs


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Why not school buses? The Greyhounds and Megabuses will already be running for those with resources. The school buses will need to be moved out of the storm zone to protect them anyway. Why not allow those without resources to ride along in them. That just seems practical. It's certainly better than trying to ride out the storm in a flood zone just because you have no money.


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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/25/2017 9:55:41 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeM3Urs

Why not school buses? The Greyhounds and Megabuses will already be running for those with resources. The school buses will need to be moved out of the storm zone to protect them anyway. Why not allow those without resources to ride along in them. That just seems practical. It's certainly better than trying to ride out the storm in a flood zone just because you have no money.





Okay, the school buses are not a bad idea.
Can each person be provide with an extra row, for belongings/wordly goods?
If you have never had to evacuate, you don't know what it is like having to decide what to take with you.
I mainly took pictures, a few sentimental items.

Can free U-hauls/or storage facilities be provided for those that can't afford these services?
Also, where do they go when they get off the bus?
Can they be placed in hotels or motels?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 5:43:43 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Question: What is/ or should be the role of federal, state and local governments before, during and after natural disasters?


that is the essential question in pretty much any situation, chronic or acute.

my short answer is the hierarchy looks like this: first and foremost, individuals are responsible for themselves and family. then it moves to friends and neighbors. then the local "community" kicks in, then the state, then the feds.

the emphasis on government providing help or thinking its governments job to help results in personal irresponsibility and complacency in the face of life's requirements.


now, let me save you some time lefties: "I don't care about the poor, the disabled, the indigent, etc." (there, feel better about yourselves now?)

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 5:49:00 AM   
Musicmystery


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You done now? Feel better? Did you cum?

Government can also mobilize faster and mobilize more resources at once in response to a disaster when that faster mobilization (and central point of organization) make a big difference.

But thanks for repeating your knee jerk "government bad" mantra.

Now wipe up that cum.

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 5:51:41 AM   
bounty44


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again, you continue to not be able to represent my views correctly. one would think youd stop trying, but you just keep doubling down on it and like mnottertroll and Thompson, making an insufferable stench of yourself.

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 5:54:18 AM   
Musicmystery


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Again, you post ridiculous shit, and expect it to be taken seriously. And again, you ignore the salient points, not even trying to address a counter-argument. You thought it, so it is so.

Government can also mobilize faster and mobilize more resources at once in response to a disaster when that faster mobilization (and central point of organization) make a big difference.

But thanks for repeating your knee jerk "MM posted it, so it's bad! Must post personal attack. Certainly don't have self-control to ignore."

Now wipe up that cum before it dries and stains.

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 6:11:04 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Again, you post ridiculous shit, and expect it to be taken seriously. And again, you ignore the salient points, not even trying to address a counter-argument. You thought it, so it is so.

Government can also mobilize faster and mobilize more resources at once in response to a disaster when that faster mobilization (and central point of organization) make a big difference.

But thanks for repeating your knee jerk "MM posted it, so it's bad! Must post personal attack. Certainly don't have self-control to ignore."

Now wipe up that cum before it dries and stains.


This is pretty much the antifa reaction. Any opposing viewpoint must be destroyed



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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 6:31:22 AM   
Musicmystery


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Right. That government can also mobilize faster and mobilize more resources at once in response to a disaster when that faster mobilization (and central point of organization) make a big difference is an "opposing viewpoint" with the purpose of "destroying."

You left out violently, Sharia Law, and hatred for America.

It's helping people in a disaster, clowns.

It's a good thing. Get over it.

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 6:32:28 AM   
bounty44


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and because also, you know, "self reliance" is "ridiculous shit."

much in the same way that "fools" believe that government drives up costs in healthcare despite all the evidence to the contrary is "childish crap."

government can "mobilize faster" than me and my neighbors or the people at the local level?? that's absolutely laughable on its face.

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 6:38:12 AM   
Musicmystery


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Again, while you whine and whine, you continually distort what others post, then pretend to post a counter-argument.

Self-reliance is certainly not ridiculous -- that's more crap you made up.

But a disaster is a special circumstance. And yes, the government can bring in troops, machinery, food, water, and funds FAR faster than you and your neighbors. What's laughable is that you're determined to pretend otherwise.

Who are your neighbors--the Avengers?

FFS. Breathe. Slow down. Think.

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 6:40:52 AM   
bounty44


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more "ridiculous shit" from the heritage foundation:

http://www.heritage.org/homeland-security/report/learning-disaster-the-role-federalism-and-the-importance-grassroots

quote:

In the aftermath of the widespread devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina and the unsteady response to conditions in New Orleans, some argued to give the federal government a much more intrusive role in meeting future catastrophic emergencies. [1] While improvements in the federal response are nec­essary, turning responsibility for everything over to Washington is a terrible idea. [ridiculous shit!]

The right response to domestic emergencies requires effective action from state and local governments, private-sector and volun­tary associations, and communities and individuals, as well as support from federal officials. The best way to ensure cooperation and to meet shared responsibilities is not to put big government in charge. [ridiculous shit!]

Federalism has long been the guiding principle for allocating responsibilities to meet the needs of citi­zens after disasters. Remaining committed to a feder­alist approach is not just being a slave to tradition. It is a precedent based on practicality and experience. Both scientific research on disaster response and an analysis of recent emergencies argue that it is still the right approach. Many of the best efforts to save lives and safeguard property highlight the vital role that nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), private-sec­tor initiatives, and individual civic deeds play during extreme emergencies. In fact, they argue that rather than being supplanted by federal oversight, grass­roots responses should be the cornerstone of the national effort. [ridiculous shit!]

The Constitution and Governance

Embodied in the U.S. Constitution, the princi­ples of limited government and federalism give cit­izens and local communities the greatest role in shaping their lives. The 10th Amendment states that "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the peo­ple." In matters relating to their communities, local jurisdictions have the preponderance of authority and autonomy. This just makes sense: The people closest to the problem are the ones best equipped to find the best solution. [ridiculous shit!]

America's system for disaster response reflects these principles. The core assumption is that inci­dents are typically managed best at the lowest pos­sible geographic, organizational, and jurisdictional levels. Several reasons justify this approach.

• Every community is unique. Preparedness planning must account for local conditions of culture, geography, language, infrastructure, politics, and numerous other factors.

• Local communities have the resources. Since local communities are responsible for public safety, they already have the preponderance of assets that are usually required to deal with prob­lems. Of the millions of emergency responders in the United States-including fire, police, emer­gency services, utility workers, medical person­nel, and volunteer groups-the vast majority work either for or with local communities.

• Time matters. In most disasters, the first few hours are critical. Most life-threatening injuries require immediate attention. Since local responders are already in the jurisdiction, they are likely the only personnel that can reach the disaster scene in time to make a difference. [what?? I thought the federal government could mobilize faster??]

• Priorities matter. Large-scale disasters will require states and the federal government to prioritize the allocation of additional resources to help affected communities throughout a region. The more robust the local response, the more aid can be focused on the areas most greatly affected by the disaster.

• It encourages preparedness. If local commu­nities are not primarily responsible for disaster response, they will be less likely to invest in the resources and assets needed to safeguard their citizens. [yeah but self reliance is "ridiculous shit!"]

A federalist approach to disaster response for a nation like the United States, with its vast popula­tion, wide geographical area, diverse regional con­ditions, and traditions of strong state and local governments and volunteerism, is the only practi­cal choice. [ridiculous shit!]...

The role of these national organizations, like the role of the federal government, is supporting-not taking over-local communities

Grassroots Response

Washington's plans offer a framework for provid­ing national assistance to local communities in times of need, both through state and local govern­ments and through national-level NGOs. They are necessary but not sufficient. They are designed to supplement, not supplant, grassroots responses- and with good reason. Current research on disaster preparedness argues that community-centered disaster preparations are far more effective than Washington-centric planning.

More Effective Planning. A study by the Center for the Advancement of Collaborative Strategies in Health examined how communities would react to two kinds of terrorist attacks: a smallpox outbreak and a dirty bomb explosion. The study found that most extant response plans will not work. Surveys suggested that most individuals would not follow instructions such as reporting to vaccination sites or sheltering-in-place when required.

The study found that most people have com­mon-sense reasons for noncompliance. People have little faith in plans that affect their personal safety and that were developed without their direct involvement. The public has little confidence that the planning of professionals necessarily offers the best course of action to protect themselves and their families. This is especially true when plans ask them to do things that are counterintuitive, such as not going to school to pick up their children during an emergency. On the other hand, the study found that disaster planning that included input from the community resulted not only in higher quality plans, but also in far higher levels of community approval and confidence in the plans.[9]

More Meaningful Response.Not only does community-centered planning offer better pros­pects for developing better plans and obtaining greater public support, but grassroots efforts make for more resilient responses in the event of disaster. Indeed, community-centered actions, in which cit­izens take care of themselves and their neighbors, are more effective and have therapeutic mental health effects. One disaster research study found that when community ties "are strong, supportive, and responsive to the individual's physical and emotional needs, the capacity to withstand and overcome stress is heightened."[10] Citizens feel more secure and better cared for when they are looked after by members of their own community.

More Versatile Response. Another reason why grassroots responses are essential is that as the scale of the disaster increases, so does the likelihood of confusion and ambiguity. Under these conditions, improvisation and adaptation are crucial to elicit­ing an effective response, particularly in the first hours and days of a catastrophe before organized responders can reach the scene. Research has found that the communities themselves are the best source of innovation and ingenuity, and the stron­ger the community, the more resourceful and robust is the nature of its adaptive qualities.[11]

"The best job," argued Representative Jim McCr­ery (R-LA), was done by "ordinary people who came out of their homes [whaaaaaaaaaat??] and bought diapers and pillows and blankets and food and stayed at the high school gymnasium or wherever, the civic center in some small town and cooked for the people who were there, who gave them rides to the Social Security office to make sure they got their checks."[12] Addi­tionally, local faith-based organizations responded quickly and effectively by providing facilities and resources and by mobilizing volunteers. Louisiana residents affected by these two storms generally rated the assistance provided by private sources such as nonprofit, community, and faith-based organiza­tions substantially higher than assistance from fed­eral, state, and local governments and national organizations like the Red Cross.[13]

Such views are not exceptional. Traditionally, local churches provide immediate assistance to a stricken area, the American Red Cross takes the lead in providing emergency relief a few days later, and other charities (many from the affected com­munity itself) then focus on long-run recovery.

In the aftermath of Katrina, the grassroots response proved especially important. Over­whelmed American Red Cross personnel required an exceptionally long time to service many of the smaller, often rural Gulf Coast communities and declined to operate in some locations when they feared for the safety of their volunteers and the vic­tims (e.g., because of fear of strong winds or unsan­itary conditions).[14] Government agencies also found it difficult to provide timely assistance to all residents of the many devastated areas. Private civic efforts (often local churches) filled many of these gaps through countless, if often unrecorded, acts of generosity. In cooperation with neighbors, friends, and fellow sufferers, victims also organized to help themselves-a step that mental health profession­als consider essential to overcoming feelings of powerlessness and trauma.[15]...

Conclusion

Preparedness and response programs run by Washington bureaucrats that diminish the role and responsibilities of state and local governments will not make Americans safer. Instead, they will waste tax dollars and divert the DHS from tasks that would make a difference.

Federal, state, and local governments need to work together to encourage, not supplant, commu­nity-centered programs. As with many other home­land security missions, applying-rather than trying to circumvent-the principles of federalism usually produces the best results.


"ridiculous shit!"

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 8/26/2017 6:44:59 AM >

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 6:59:22 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

and because also, you know, "self reliance" is "ridiculous shit."

much in the same way that "fools" believe that government drives up costs in healthcare despite all the evidence to the contrary is "childish crap."

government can "mobilize faster" than me and my neighbors or the people at the local level?? that's absolutely laughable on its face.


Who controls the school buses. I never saw Michelle or Barack driving one. Isn't that usually the city and county level? And who knows better where people in need live. They should already have plans in place at the local level

Federal micromanagement of citizen's lives, giving a central government too much power, also gives them the same power and control that communists have used again and again to murder approximately 100 million of their own citizens since the time of Karl Marx

The federal government should be kept as small as possible and extremely limited in power and control

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 8:51:10 AM   
Musicmystery


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OK. Here's the ridiculous shit part:

"Taking over?" What is this, some kind of invasion?

You cuckoos have been sucking down conspiracy theories so long that you'd shoot down the rescue copters.

Nor does any of this diminish the importance of the community or personal responsibility or self-reliance--again, all crap in your head. Doesn't it hurt after a while?

My neighbors and I are well-resourced, have tractors and land and water and multiple resources.

But you know, if there's a storm, snow plows and utility tracks and road equipment for tree removal are really helpful. Not to mention emergency services and access.

And that's us. What about the hard working people in a poor town? They're just stranded--and freezing and starving. How long will it take neighbors to rescue all them? Aren't you the same people who whine about numbers of refugees straining services?

There's a valid and useful role to play here. To pretend otherwise is just asinine. Which I guess explains why you're going to lengths to pretend it.

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 8:52:37 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

and because also, you know, "self reliance" is "ridiculous shit."

much in the same way that "fools" believe that government drives up costs in healthcare despite all the evidence to the contrary is "childish crap."

government can "mobilize faster" than me and my neighbors or the people at the local level?? that's absolutely laughable on its face.


Who controls the school buses. I never saw Michelle or Barack driving one. Isn't that usually the city and county level? And who knows better where people in need live. They should already have plans in place at the local level

Federal micromanagement of citizen's lives, giving a central government too much power, also gives them the same power and control that communists have used again and again to murder approximately 100 million of their own citizens since the time of Karl Marx

The federal government should be kept as small as possible and extremely limited in power and control

A lot of school busses hit the streets in a disaster where you live?

What a ridiculous tool you are. Oh no! Government help! Run, comrades, run!

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RE: Role of the Federal, State, Local governments durin... - 8/26/2017 9:18:00 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

and because also, you know, "self reliance" is "ridiculous shit."

much in the same way that "fools" believe that government drives up costs in healthcare despite all the evidence to the contrary is "childish crap."

government can "mobilize faster" than me and my neighbors or the people at the local level?? that's absolutely laughable on its face.


Who controls the school buses. I never saw Michelle or Barack driving one. Isn't that usually the city and county level? And who knows better where people in need live. They should already have plans in place at the local level

Federal micromanagement of citizen's lives, giving a central government too much power, also gives them the same power and control that communists have used again and again to murder approximately 100 million of their own citizens since the time of Karl Marx

The federal government should be kept as small as possible and extremely limited in power and control

A lot of school busses hit the streets in a disaster where you live?

What a ridiculous tool you are. Oh no! Government help! Run, comrades, run!


The alt left narrative was that no one had any way out of New Oleans during Katrina

New Orleans school buses after Katrina:



Where the federal governments help is required then it is advisable that help is provided. However, this insane leftist mantra that only an all powerful central government can do anything at the local level is just more of their typical unthinking mad howler bs

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