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ORIGINAL: Marini

Family fights to survive hurricane Harvey

I hope this family and everyone else affected by this devastation gets all the help possible.
These situations are always heartbreaking.

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He said they decided to ride out the storm instead of fleeing because they didn't think it was going to be that strong of a storm.

....

Ahead of the storm, residents were told to head north to cities such as San Antonio, which is a federally and state-designated evacuation center.

Texas state parks are open to hurricane evacuees to camp for free and 12 campgrounds and RV parks were made available for Hurricane Harvey evacuees. Some have even headed east to evacuation centers in Louisiana.

All seven counties on the Texas coast from Corpus Christi to the western end of Galveston Island were under mandatory evacuations from low-lying areas. Four counties ordered full evacuations and warned there was no guarantee of rescue for those choosing to stay behind.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Nope. You're still whining people misrepresent you.

And yet, you go on and on doing exactly that. No one called for more government, no one said business and the community didn't help.

That's all you posting ridiculous shit.

You LOOK for arguments. And not the logical kind.

Fuck off. Go enjoy a nice disaster somewhere.

Show me anywhere I've made any comment, let alone whined, about being misrepresented.

Wow, touched a nerve.

No, you're just demonstrating that you don't bother to read before posting.

None of that was in reply to you. But if the shoe happens to fit, fine.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

marini, since the aftermath of the storms going to be going on for quite awhile, I encourage you to look for the complementarity and the conflict between all the parties involved, see how they play out, and to keep the thread alive.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A couple of points that need to be made here:

1) Mandatory evacuations, at least in Texas, are unenforcible due to the 'Castle Law' except when it can be proved that by not evacuating an adult is recklessly endangering children or anyone that is not able to make adequate decisions for themselves (which can only be decided by a court, which would be after the fact)

2) Anyone too fucking stupid to get the hell out of an area before it is hit by a hurricane is too stupid for words and should be left to their fate.
Every city and town in the impact zone had arranged for free transportation for anyone wanting to get out of the area.

3) Houston and much of Coastal Texas does not need a hurricane to cause flooding, a heavy thunderstorm will cause temporary flooding in those areas and a slow moving frontal system with rain ALWAYS causes flooding.
\
Other coastal regions of the US where flooding due to tropical storms or ocean born storm systems have incorporated building codes where the first floor is designed to let the water pass under the living area.

Homes built after the devastating Galveston hurricane that hit in the early 1900's by coasties were built in this manner.

However, during the housing boom after WW2, all these idiots who moved into the region had major issues with building homes that were 15 to 20 feet off the ground.

Then, all these new rich folks created by the oil boom in the 60's, 70's and 80's had a similar problem even though residents who's family had been in the region for generations kept telling them that the million dollar homes were gonna be million dollar junk piles with the first big storm....

Which begs the question, why the fuck should the Government give out low interest loans to rebuild houses on the fucking coast that were not constructed with the idea of a major storm in their design? I mean most insurance companies will pay off on the condition that the rebuilt home be anywhere but the danger zone, unless built to specific recommendations which is gonna cost MORE than the write off check.

Look my little sister and her family are in the Houston area.
When brother in law wanted to buy a house along this wonderfully beautiful location on a creek, sis stood firm and they bought a house on a hill, that was older (much older, framed with timbers and beams, walled with old fashioned THICK brick) and immediately had every window in the home changed from glass to acrylic panes that were ballistic resistant.

After three major storms the biggest insurance claim they had to make was the cost of replacing some slate tiles and minor roof damage caused when a neighbor's tree was uprooted and fell against their house.

And even though they are above the record high water mark for their area and their house has taken 120 mph winds, they got the hell out of town, as well as everyone else in their neighborhood, and none of their houses have been heavily damaged by storms in the last 50 years.

And the kicker is that just about everyone on the coast bitches about government interference, government over reach, the government giving hand outs, or just the government, and I will bet you that everyone that is bitching is going to be lining up at a FEMA office with their hand out.

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ORIGINAL: Marini

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A couple of points that need to be made here:

1) Mandatory evacuations, at least in Texas, are unenforcible due to the 'Castle Law' except when it can be proved that by not evacuating an adult is recklessly endangering children or anyone that is not able to make adequate decisions for themselves (which can only be decided by a court, which would be after the fact)

2) Anyone too fucking stupid to get the hell out of an area before it is hit by a hurricane is too stupid for words and should be left to their fate.
Every city and town in the impact zone had arranged for free transportation for anyone wanting to get out of the area.

3) Houston and much of Coastal Texas does not need a hurricane to cause flooding, a heavy thunderstorm will cause temporary flooding in those areas and a slow moving frontal system with rain ALWAYS causes flooding.
\
Other coastal regions of the US where flooding due to tropical storms or ocean born storm systems have incorporated building codes where the first floor is designed to let the water pass under the living area.

Homes built after the devastating Galveston hurricane that hit in the early 1900's by coasties were built in this manner.

However, during the housing boom after WW2, all these idiots who moved into the region had major issues with building homes that were 15 to 20 feet off the ground.

Then, all these new rich folks created by the oil boom in the 60's, 70's and 80's had a similar problem even though residents who's family had been in the region for generations kept telling them that the million dollar homes were gonna be million dollar junk piles with the first big storm....

Which begs the question, why the fuck should the Government give out low interest loans to rebuild houses on the fucking coast that were not constructed with the idea of a major storm in their design? I mean most insurance companies will pay off on the condition that the rebuilt home be anywhere but the danger zone, unless built to specific recommendations which is gonna cost MORE than the write off check.

Look my little sister and her family are in the Houston area.
When brother in law wanted to buy a house along this wonderfully beautiful location on a creek, sis stood firm and they bought a house on a hill, that was older (much older, framed with timbers and beams, walled with old fashioned THICK brick) and immediately had every window in the home changed from glass to acrylic panes that were ballistic resistant.

After three major storms the biggest insurance claim they had to make was the cost of replacing some slate tiles and minor roof damage caused when a neighbor's tree was uprooted and fell against their house.

And even though they are above the record high water mark for their area and their house has taken 120 mph winds, they got the hell out of town, as well as everyone else in their neighborhood, and none of their houses have been heavily damaged by storms in the last 50 years.

And the kicker is that just about everyone on the coast bitches about government interference, government over reach, the government giving hand outs, or just the government, and I will bet you that everyone that is bitching is going to be lining up at a FEMA office with their hand out.

Hi Jeff, you have some great points here.
I read about how the homes should be built in the flood zones.

I am sure it at least doubles/or triples the price to build homes that are 20 feet off the ground, using concrete, etc.
At the end of the day, funny how most of these situations, come down to MONEY.
I would bet the majority of the people with homes in that area, could not afford to build or buy homes that are
20 feet off the ground.

CAPITALISM at its finest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


Hi Jeff, you have some great points here.
I read about how the homes should be built in the flood zones.

I am sure it at least doubles/or triples the price to build homes that are 20 feet off the ground, using concrete, etc.
At the end of the day, funny how most of these situations, come down to MONEY.
I would bet the majority of the people with homes in that area, could not afford to build or buy homes that are
20 feet off the ground.

CAPITALISM at its finest.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


Hi Jeff, you have some great points here.
I read about how the homes should be built in the flood zones.

I am sure it at least doubles/or triples the price to build homes that are 20 feet off the ground, using concrete, etc.
At the end of the day, funny how most of these situations, come down to MONEY.
I would bet the majority of the people with homes in that area, could not afford to build or buy homes that are
20 feet off the ground.

CAPITALISM at its finest.

Actually, building the home on piers or pilings does not add that much to the cost, and in coastal areas, most new construction have those limits, at least after Andrew, Katrina etc.

Of course, the local building code enforcement office can issue waivers on this requirement, and grease enough palms, people get them.

A friend of mine on the Texas coast spent a few years in Holland, and has started a business building homes that, in the event of a major flood, will actually float, using the techniques and technology developed in Holland for the very same reasons.

Personally, every time I lived on the coast, I lived on a boat, and could just untie and head for open water, and depending on the track, get far enough off the track not to have to worry about it.

And for the cost of some of the houses built on the coast, with water frontage, a boat would make more since and be cheaper, with the added bonus of being able to move if you got tired of the neighbors.

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“Must be a Texas dog cause he can survive without help,” one commenter wrote.

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Rescue groups and shelters have opened their doors to animals that have been left behind or displaced by the storm. To find more information on how to help a lost or distressed animal in the Gulf Coast area, contact the SPCA of Texas, Austin Pets Alive!, Dallas Animal Services or the San Antonio Humane Society.

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

To my knowledge the building department can't be bribed into violating code. But, perhaps it can bein your area. However, even if that's the case, no insurance agency in the U.S. will issue home owners insurance for a house built in a flood plane. With no home owners insurance there will be no mortgage. So unless these people greasing palms at the local building department are paying cash for the construction of a home, they aren't being built.

In California the State Department of Real Estate has a check list that has to be completed before a house can be built and sold by a developer. Flood zone has to be listed on the check list and if the house is in a flood zone a registered professional engineer has to sign off that the flood zone is mitigated before the developer is allowed to sell the home. Every insurance company that contemplates issuing home owners insurance and evey lending institution contemplating issuing a mortgage checks the DRE filing on the house before anything else. So, you'd have to grease the palms of the building department, a registered engineer, an insurance broker and a banker in order to get that waiver. As violating that sort of thing would pretty much end a career and possible put those professionals in jail, I don't see your scenario happening. Of course I not familiar with practice in Texas so I may be full of shit, but the first flood, I guarantee you the homeowner would complain to an elected official and the building official that issued the waiver would be looking for a job, if not jail.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

A few years ago, the residents of Fukushima and surrounding regions in Japan faced not only a once in a century tsunami but also a nuclear meltdown. That is Catastrophe with a Capital C. The entire region was devastated, towns and cities completely destroyed, thousands lost to the tsunami. I'm sure you will recall the horrifying footage of the tsunami swallowing cities in a few seconds.

The response of the citizens there was inspiring. Not a single case of looting, of violence, just a few isolated cases of minor disagreements. Compare that with Katrina and its aftermath, remembering that Katrina was comparatively mild in its destruction.

There are many reasons why the Japanese model of dealing with disasters wouldn't work if transplanted lock stock and barrel to the USA. But there must be elements of that model that would work well in an American context. So I am surprised that this discussion has not been informed at all by Japan's successful response to disasters far worse than those the unfortunate Southerners in the US face. Surely there are important lessons to be learnt ...

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

To my knowledge the building department can't be bribed into violating code. But, perhaps it can bein your area. However, even if that's the case, no insurance agency in the U.S. will issue home owners insurance for a house built in a flood plane. With no home owners insurance there will be no mortgage. So unless these people greasing palms at the local building department are paying cash for the construction of a home, they aren't being built.

In California the State Department of Real Estate has a check list that has to be completed before a house can be built and sold by a developer. Flood zone has to be listed on the check list and if the house is in a flood zone a registered professional engineer has to sign off that the flood zone is mitigated before the developer is allowed to sell the home. Every insurance company that contemplates issuing home owners insurance and evey lending institution contemplating issuing a mortgage checks the DRE filing on the house before anything else. So, you'd have to grease the palms of the building department, a registered engineer, an insurance broker and a banker in order to get that waiver. As violating that sort of thing would pretty much end a career and possible put those professionals in jail, I don't see your scenario happening. Of course I not familiar with practice in Texas so I may be full of shit, but the first flood, I guarantee you the homeowner would complain to an elected official and the building official that issued the waiver would be looking for a job, if not jail.

Its not 'violating' but granting a waiver.

And it can be done through the city council or a committee in the code enforcement department.

AND ANY PUBLIC DEPARTMENT or group of elected officials has enough people with their hands out to get ANYTHING done. Its how things work in modern politics, and has been that way for as long as humans have had government.

In Washington, the people doing the greasing are known as lobbyists, in other levels of government they can be called advocates or whatever.

And every building department in the country grants waivers, every zoning department grants waivers.

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Nope. You're still whining people misrepresent you.

And yet, you go on and on doing exactly that. No one called for more government, no one said business and the community didn't help.

That's all you posting ridiculous shit.

You LOOK for arguments. And not the logical kind.

Fuck off. Go enjoy a nice disaster somewhere.

Show me anywhere I've made any comment, let alone whined, about being misrepresented.

Wow, touched a nerve.

No, you're just demonstrating that you don't bother to read before posting.

None of that was in reply to you. But if the shoe happens to fit, fine.

Lol, dude, post 54... "In reply to Nnanji". It's only a couple of posts up.

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

To my knowledge the building department can't be bribed into violating code. But, perhaps it can bein your area. However, even if that's the case, no insurance agency in the U.S. will issue home owners insurance for a house built in a flood plane. With no home owners insurance there will be no mortgage. So unless these people greasing palms at the local building department are paying cash for the construction of a home, they aren't being built.

In California the State Department of Real Estate has a check list that has to be completed before a house can be built and sold by a developer. Flood zone has to be listed on the check list and if the house is in a flood zone a registered professional engineer has to sign off that the flood zone is mitigated before the developer is allowed to sell the home. Every insurance company that contemplates issuing home owners insurance and evey lending institution contemplating issuing a mortgage checks the DRE filing on the house before anything else. So, you'd have to grease the palms of the building department, a registered engineer, an insurance broker and a banker in order to get that waiver. As violating that sort of thing would pretty much end a career and possible put those professionals in jail, I don't see your scenario happening. Of course I not familiar with practice in Texas so I may be full of shit, but the first flood, I guarantee you the homeowner would complain to an elected official and the building official that issued the waiver would be looking for a job, if not jail.

Its not 'violating' but granting a waiver.

And it can be done through the city council or a committee in the code enforcement department.

AND ANY PUBLIC DEPARTMENT or group of elected officials has enough people with their hands out to get ANYTHING done. Its how things work in modern politics, and has been that way for as long as humans have had government.

In Washington, the people doing the greasing are known as lobbyists, in other levels of government they can be called advocates or whatever.

And every building department in the country grants waivers, every zoning department grants waivers.

You're going to stick with that? Okay. I've lost a little respect for ya. But okay.