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RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 6:13:57 AM

marksl

Posts: 42
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Nice responces i want to explore this lifestyle but not blindly accept it. Its interesting with some of the negative comments to the automatic defense of it to the others i agree. Btw i was teasing in my examples creative license. But special mention to the Doctor sure i say what i see bdsm is a game full of manipluation and arrogance that is the enviroment i may not agree with much of it after all i am like you i want something from it as well.

Btw one more thing how can anyone say this inst sexual are you made of stone? you feel nothing sexual about this at all, back to my zen thing you are doing this for other reasons or just are shy on a chat forum or want to hide your real intent your not quite comfortable with yet?

< Message edited by marksl -- 8/1/2006 6:17:13 AM >

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 21

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 6:16:07 AM

JustaDom

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Is BDSM a game? For some, yes, most certainly. There is nothing wrong with kinky fun.

A way for people to get their rocks off? Certainly.

Is there more to it than that? Maybe. The reason why I say maybe is that there really doesn't need to be more than that. Kinky fun can good enough on its own. If you are happy with it not being spiritual for you, that's cool. You can always get that need met elsewhere or maybe you are just not a very spiritual person. Spirituality is optional.

Myself, I'm kinda fuzzy on the subject. I don't need a whole lot of what I define as spirituality, I need something in my life that agrees with my old fashioned mindset. I've found dominance and submission fits that far better than vanilla relationships. BDSM for me "makes sense" and is a calming influence to the point that I can call it at least mildly spiritual. I have other things in my life that meet those needs to a greater degree.

I'm still trying to answer how spiritual I find BDSM because there is definitely something more for me than just kinky fun when I grab a woman by the hair and seeing that look in her eyes. Over the years I've become comfortable with that spiritual component being undefined. While I don't know what it is, I do know it isn't any less for not knowing.

When the ancient, blind Chinese Kung-Fu master asks you what is the sound of one hand clapping, you do not have to tell him you think it is a crop or a paddle. (Although, logically that would fit.) Give him whatever answer suits you and call it good.

I would, however, advise not telling him "that was me spanking your mom" unless the game you really want to play is Mortal Combat.

Joe

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 22

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 6:18:54 AM

marksl

Posts: 42
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

i said "spiritual" as i talked about this before one or more people always say "this isnt about sex" so what is it about to them, nearest i can think of is some kind of spiritiual journey unless anyone can explain it better.

(in reply to JustaDom)

Post #: 23

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 6:25:35 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

It's the intimacy from exploring this wierd stuff together that's spiritual.

When you get beyond the casual, you'll see it.

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 24

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 6:43:58 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl
how can anyone say this inst sexual are you made of stone? you feel nothing sexual about this at all, back to my zen thing you are doing this for other reasons or just are shy

There is a big diffrence in saying the important thing isn't sexual (Which is what I see most meaning) and in saying there is absolutely no sexual element involved at all (Which I haven't seen anybody taking a stance on). It is how you see 'relationships', sure, most relationships include sex... but is it the most important thing?... well speaking for myself, hell no.

For me, I don't DO vanilla, so a relationship is D/s oriented. Important things are who she is, how we make each other feel, enjoying her company, the D/s dynamic between us...... does that include sex, damn straight it does. But frankly I wouldn't be involved if that is ALL there was. I have more needs than sex, it maybe part of what I look for but it certainly doesn't top the priority list.

If you even limit it to just BDSM play. I can quite happily be at a play party, some little subby come kneeling at my feet beggin to be flogged and if I am so inclined, I'll indulge them, it is fun, I enjoy the reactions but that is likely all I feel... Note I didn't even put a gender on the person... it isn't important. My libido isn't engauged. If it is someone I AM involved with, care for and find sexualy attractive, can it become part of foreplay... sure. But the play itself, out of that context has no automatic sexual connotations, YMMV.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 25

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 6:56:26 AM

SexyRed

Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline

To the OP: There is nothing wrong with it being all about sex for someone, but don't make generalizations or comments, like "this is just a game". To some people, it is much more of course and that is fine for them, just as it being just sexual is completely fine for others.

Preferences are allowed, so why question when people say it is not just about sex for them?

< Message edited by SexyRed -- 8/1/2006 6:57:09 AM >

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 26

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 7:06:54 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl

i said "spiritual" as i talked about this before one or more people always say "this isnt about sex" so what is it about to them, nearest i can think of is some kind of spiritiual journey unless anyone can explain it better.

If it's not about sex, and it isn't about spirituality, maybe for some, it's about structure. Or art. Or finance. There an't only those two choices of sex or spirit.

If it were always about sex (although it often is) how would W/we explain a gay male Master with a lesbian slave? There is a well known M/s pair with this exact situation. i don't know that it isn't spiritual with T/them, but then, i don't know that it is either. i am pretty sure it isn't what T/they'd consider a game though.

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 27

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 7:10:22 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

Football's just a game, but look how many live it.

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 28

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 7:15:20 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl

Does anyone view this as all a game or is it just me. I have tried to see the deep meaningfull zen like qualities some people see in bdsm but i am at a loss. Instead i see manipluation child like arrogance but most of all fantasy. Somehow if you learn about bdsm buy a whip you are a Dom/me a superior human being incapable to listen to anyone else. If your a sub its hard to reply as your always on your knees. Sure its sterotypes but is this all it is?

Now before hit me with the deep spiritual ramblings on what bdsm should be. Lets be realistic its based in sexual context right. We all do this to get our rocks off. Pretending this is more than it is i want to learn so one day i can say yeah like a come down from ectasy i touched a bdsm god i felt the zen or is all that bullshit?

It's interesting mark that in your profile you use the trems "yin and yang" - very "zen like" words wouldn't you agree??

my guess in the motivation of you asking your question is that you have played the "game" and have been left wanting something more, but not being able to put a finger on exactly what it is you want/need.

As was well stated above - it's what YOU bring to it. It can be all about sex - if thats what you choose or it can be more. Open yourself up to the possibilities that there are more then just sex/sensation/play to this experience, and you might experience it

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 29

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 7:18:54 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl

Does anyone view this as all a game or is it just me. I have tried to see the deep meaningfull zen like qualities some people see in bdsm but i am at a loss.

First, the original definition of BDSM is bondage/discipline/sadomasochism (some here wish to redefine it). This is different from D/s. I know people involved in D/s that never engage in BDSM.

quote:

Instead i see manipluation child like arrogance but most of all fantasy. Somehow if you learn about bdsm buy a whip you are a Dom/me a superior human being incapable to listen to anyone else.

From personal experience I would say that about 50% of the Dominants I've met are naturally dominant. What that means is that they tend to be alpha in any situation and they do it quietly without bullying. The good example is when the vanillas will open doors for the Dom/me and have no idea why they're doing it. It has nothing to do with a whip. The whip would merely mean that you're in the position of Top.

quote:

If your a sub its hard to reply as your always on your knees. Sure its sterotypes but is this all it is?

I think you'll find that there are long term D/s based relationships out there. The reality is it's impossible to be in "on" mode 24/7/365. Reality happens, but it doesn't mean that you can't have a relationship based in D/s. It's all about how you work it in.

quote:

Lets be realistic its based in sexual context right. We all do this to get our rocks off.

For me BDSM is sexual, but my service within D/s is not. Matter of fact, I know several service submissive/slaves and a few protocol submissives/slaves.

quote:

Pretending this is more than it is i want to learn so one day i can say yeah like a come down from ectasy i touched a bdsm god i felt the zen or is all that bullshit?

It's perfectly okay to be involved with just the BDSM side. I have a friend who is a masochisic bottom. She doesn't want to be your slave, she doesn't want to be trained, she doesn't want to serve. She wants you to come over, beat her, have sex and then leave. That's what makes her happy. So, if this is what makes you happy, go for it. Just be honest with the people that you meet that that is all that you're looking for.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 30

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 7:24:41 AM

Tamerofwild1s

Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline

ok after perusing thru this .... I am actually waiting for mnottertail to come on thru here and spit out some verse on how life is just a game .. I see ravenmuse already did the Bard thing.

to me this lifestyle is not a game at all ... and is far more then a sexual thing .. I don't live this lifestyle for the sex . maybe some people come in here and do that . and I think there is a good number that actually do this for sex .. but thats thier gig not mine ... I walk this life because I have a passion for it . I have been in this lifestyle for 20 some odd years, and if thats playing a sex game then someone show me thefinish line ... I have talked with a few who had no interest in the sexual side of this life at all . they were in it for the dynamics that are involved . and when you get a deeper grasp of things then maybe you won't see it as a game

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 31

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 7:38:36 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl

Does anyone view this as all a game or is it just me. I have tried to see the deep meaningfull zen like qualities some people see in bdsm but i am at a loss. Instead i see manipluation child like arrogance but most of all fantasy. Somehow if you learn about bdsm buy a whip you are a Dom/me a superior human being incapable to listen to anyone else. If your a sub its hard to reply as your always on your knees. Sure its sterotypes but is this all it is?

Now before hit me with the deep spiritual ramblings on what bdsm should be. Lets be realistic its based in sexual context right. We all do this to get our rocks off. Pretending this is more than it is i want to learn so one day i can say yeah like a come down from ectasy i touched a bdsm god i felt the zen or is all that bullshit?

Anything can be a game, if that is what you bring to it. There are people who drag race during the summer and who just have fun at it, win or lose (always hoping to win of course), because it is a game to them. I challenge you to watch Driving Force on A & E about John Force and his family or read his book about 'seeing Elvis at 1000 feet' and tell me that drag racing is a game to John. There is an example of how one person can take it very, very seriously and how another (one of his daughters who also races) sees it as just a game.

BDSM is a form of play...if you consider the B to be bondage, the D to be Discipline (used in this context as 'punishment'), the S to be sadism, and the M to be masochism. All of these are elements in a specific form of sexual play. The definitions of Sadism and Masochism both make importantl note of the sexual enjoyment derived from the practice of either.

BDSM is not D/s. Like osidegirl, I know at least one dominant and submissive who have never practiced BDSM and who don't have any interest in doing so. They go to lifestyle events to learn about the lifestyle, not how to have the kinky fun that, for some of us, is incorporated into that lifestyle. But just to make things more interesting, take a look at those who do live the D/s way and see if you note any difference in the way they 'play' BDSM vs. the way those who enjoy BDSM only without the D/s do.

As someone else put it...it is what you bring to the 'game' that counts.

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 32

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 8:10:19 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

Memory and judgment about the feelings associated with D/s is a nebulous, changing and precarious task. When I think back to the feelings that brought me into D/s it has become fuzzy. The fantasies that I used to have in detail are not as vivid as my experiences have multiplied and time has filtered my emotions. In the beginning, I knew something magnificent was occurring when I spanked my first girl. It was sexual, but it also was much more.

The realization has not made me a dark, unapproachable man with a sense of guilt. It has made me a person who is aware of my drives and accepting of these desires. I find joy in releasing my desires. I’m happy. It also allows me to respect women who want to be controlled, used in some fashion or given pain. They have had their realizations and they are happy, too.

My first blue and black, suede flogger was my Ark of the Covenant. It was spiritual. I first held it by the heavy handle and stepped back from her as she stood against the wall with her arms up high, leaning. I set my wrist into a circling motion that grew larger and larger, then a wide flick of my wrist sent it outward to her white skin and heaven. The falls struck her back and that changed me as assuredly as any prayer ever has.

I have held her in the early summer afternoon, that has no hint of fall and listened to her sing flawlessly in a completely spaced state. Not unlike a religious person in ecstasy.

I know what she is like, she knows what I am like. Unlike others in the vanilla world, we don’t hide within ourselves. They have an unbearable task of not being able to speak of what is inside. This doesn’t mean I can speak openly to those in the vanilla world of my desires, but I do have you all to listen. I have her to feel my flogger.

So is it spiritual? I think so, but it is easy to find fault with the concept. I also know if there is a spiritual God, people would find fault with him, too.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 33

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 8:15:28 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I can see your point, but....Ouch. I live for fantasy, whether it's completely in my head, or with another person and it's being lived out somehow. It really is what makes the world go round sometimes, in my opinion: The world of Imagination. Yum. But, bottom-line: The potential for very deep intimacy w/another person is almost the entire reason I am interested in all this. For me, it's the end result that makes it all worthwhile.

As for tying what "spirituality" may mean to various people in a bdsm context to bdsm activity and relationships- I agree with Ex-Steel: It's gonna be a pretty fluid concept, and everyone is going to have a different opinion. Bdsm allowing people to feel deeper connections w/eachother is meaningful (to me, and I do think it paves the way for, or makes that happen), so it's important in that way - and in no small way, really. Some people construe that as 'spiritual'.

Who ever said sexuality and spirituality had to be separate? To many, the idea of co-mingling these two ideas may seem unconventional, but - on closer examination, I think perhaps not. Define the terms.

As far as people being a bit more real, and screwing up occasionally (or even frequently), and blowing someone else's image that they are, in fact, not a Princess Bride living or being with a Charming Prince beside a castle and moat somwehere...well, yes. There's that. But it's all pretty good on the whole, isn't it? I mean, with all its flaws and potential for ugliness, bdsm is still a pretty awesome thing. -Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/1/2006 8:42:44 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 34

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 8:16:08 AM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

To me, it's all a matter of personal perception and what ever fosters my fantasy, and luckily i have found others who want to mesh fantasies with me. *grinz We make them our reality and hopefully enjoy living in it. *grinz

~raiken

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 35

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 8:19:53 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

I must say, that it is very interesting, how the divine can sometimes manifest itself in the midst of much intentsity.

(in reply to raiken)

Post #: 36

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 8:20:56 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Memory and judgment about the feelings associated with D/s is a nebulous, changing and precarious task. When I think back to the feelings that brought me into D/s it has become fuzzy. The fantasies that I used to have in detail are not as vivid as my experiences have multiplied and time has filtered my emotions. In the beginning, I knew something magnificent was occurring when I spanked my first girl. It was sexual, but it also was much more.

The realization has not made me a dark, unapproachable man with a sense of guilt. It has made me a person who is aware of my drives and accepting of these desires. I find joy in releasing my desires. I’m happy. It also allows me to respect women who want to be controlled, used in some fashion or given pain. They have had their realizations and they are happy, too.

My first blue and black, suede flogger was my Ark of the Covenant. It was spiritual. I first held it by the heavy handle and stepped back from her as she stood against the wall with her arms up high, leaning. I set my wrist into a circling motion that grew larger and larger, then a wide flick of my wrist sent it outward to her white skin and heaven. The falls struck her back and that changed me as assuredly as any prayer ever has.

I have held her in the early summer afternoon, that has no hint of fall and listened to her sing flawlessly in a completely spaced state. Not unlike a religious person in ecstasy.

I know what she is like, she knows what I am like. Unlike others in the vanilla world, we don’t hide within ourselves. They have an unbearable task of not being able to speak of what is inside. This doesn’t mean I can speak openly to those in the vanilla world of my desires, but I do have you all to listen. I have her to feel my flogger.

So is it spiritual? I think so, but it is easy to find fault with the concept. I also know if there is a spiritual God, people would find fault with him, too.

So eloquent and beautiful, thank you for sharing :-)

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 37

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 9:48:35 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I'm one of those weird ones who can enjoy it on a completely superficial fun game sex blow me today and wake up without a phone number tomorrow and have a fabulous intense memory forever level AND on an owned and devoted ready to serve with no ultimate authority intense lifelong commitment level.

Why choose?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 38

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 9:53:31 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I don't do any of this to get my rocks off.

Most of the slaves I've trained and owned I never had sex with.

For me its about authority and power, its about being the true me, and its about helping another person blossom as the true him/her.

It is really just an extension of who I am.

Believe it or not. I frankly don't care.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 39

RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 9:54:22 AM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl

Does anyone view this as all a game or is it just me. I have tried to see the deep meaningfull zen like qualities some people see in bdsm but i am at a loss. Instead i see manipluation child like arrogance but most of all fantasy. Somehow if you learn about bdsm buy a whip you are a Dom/me a superior human being incapable to listen to anyone else. If your a sub its hard to reply as your always on your knees. Sure its sterotypes but is this all it is?

Now before hit me with the deep spiritual ramblings on what bdsm should be. Lets be realistic its based in sexual context right. We all do this to get our rocks off. Pretending this is more than it is i want to learn so one day i can say yeah like a come down from ectasy i touched a bdsm god i felt the zen or is all that bullshit?

I think you should ask slave bishop if her devotion is based on sex.

she doesnt get sex very often and when she does shes not tied up.Sometimes she gets to watch Me with a friend who is not into bdsm.I tend to keep My sex life away from My submissives and slaves.This isnt a Golden Rule,but the reality for Me is when sex is involved feelings delvelope.
I love slave bishop and to have other submissives(paying or not) have those feelings is taking a chance on someone getting hurt.

So do I take this "game" seriously....Its not a game and I take My lifestyle seriously.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to marksl)

Post #: 40

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