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RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 12:40:48 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl

Does anyone view this as all a game or is it just me. I have tried to see the deep meaningfull zen like qualities some people see in bdsm but i am at a loss. Instead i see manipluation child like arrogance but most of all fantasy. Somehow if you learn about bdsm buy a whip you are a Dom/me a superior human being incapable to listen to anyone else. If your a sub its hard to reply as your always on your knees. Sure its sterotypes but is this all it is?

Now before hit me with the deep spiritual ramblings on what bdsm should be. Lets be realistic its based in sexual context right. We all do this to get our rocks off. Pretending this is more than it is i want to learn so one day i can say yeah like a come down from ectasy i touched a bdsm god i felt the zen or is all that bullshit?


The BDSM lifestyle is what you make of it.  It can be a fetish that you have fulfilled then return to your normal world.  It can be an occasional fling that you have.  It can be something, or rather, someone, that you live your life for in the balance.  To what degree you live it is YOUR choice.

You say in your profile that it is a game, so it will remain that in your mind.  To others of us who are involved that you clearly have no knowledge of, it's NOT a game and it is very much a reality. 

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to marksl)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 12:51:23 PM   
MMMMudd


Posts: 83
Joined: 7/16/2006
Status: offline 		B/D Power exchange etc. exists in every day life. Every one submits and dominates every day, all day long. Children submit to their parents, (or rebel against them which is also a form of submission) parents submit to the local police, who submit to the leaders who actually make the laws. I tend to rip on our president because I can't respect him enough to want to follow/submit to him.

To play basketball you have to submitt to the coaches and the referee. Playing badly with disapoint your coach, and get you benched. Breaking the  rules will get your whole team punished.

To get your vehicle registered , you have to follow the instructions of the DMV lady. To get what you want you have to do what she says, granted you have to trust and respect that what she has you do will result in you being able to drive your car on the roads.

Many is the married couple who's sex life consists of him coming home drunk on Friday nights, beating her, then fucking her. She spends saturday at her mothers recovering from her injuries, then returns before Monday morning to start the cycle over. Often these same people would never ever buy a black leather outfit, a dildo, or a whip because that would be perverted and sick.

Living a B/D S/M fetish, goth, christian, pagan, lifestyle doesn't really change the human dynamic, it only changed the words you use to define it. June Cleaver could just as easily have referred to Ward as master, and Ward could have spent a little more time in the gym, Of course we know she loved spankin's right?  but it wouldn't have changed the Leave it to Beaver plot line one little bit. I find that most hardcore alternative lifestyle people are mostly seeking identity. A couple of any gender who have to call themselves master and slave at all times, are just blatantly insecure. It's not exotic, it's not kinky, it's just tired.
My leather leanings are part of me but it's far from being all that am.
Mudd

 

(in reply to MistressBG)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 1:20:23 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		what an eloquent and educational post from amayos! (no surpise there, but - it was really good, I thought).

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/1/2006 1:21:02 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 1:50:42 PM   
BillsGalSusan


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline 		Bill and I will celebrate our 35th year together as wedded "gamesters" on August 8.

D/s has been the constant (though ever evolving) principle underlying our relationship. The extent to which we incorporate BDSM into that has changed over time, with a fairly long period of time when anything likely to be, urmmm, noisy, was restricted to vacations or weekend escapes. Now that we are finally empty nesters, that is no longer an issue (veg).

It's tempting to make it sorta black and white, with the D/s being one thing and BDSM something else entirely, but, at least for us, there is a relationship between what gives us sexual pleasure and how our power relationship works.

I really don't have anything else to say, but long live the game!!

Another Susan (still wet after all these years)

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 3:28:02 PM   
songofeire


Posts: 40
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl

Does anyone view this as all a game or is it just me. I have tried to see the deep meaningfull zen like qualities some people see in bdsm but i am at a loss. Instead i see manipluation child like arrogance but most of all fantasy. Somehow if you learn about bdsm buy a whip you are a Dom/me a superior human being incapable to listen to anyone else. If your a sub its hard to reply as your always on your knees. Sure its sterotypes but is this all it is?

Now before hit me with the deep spiritual ramblings on what bdsm should be. Lets be realistic its based in sexual context right. We all do this to get our rocks off. Pretending this is more than it is i want to learn so one day i can say yeah like a come down from ectasy i touched a bdsm god i felt the zen or is all that bullshit?




I remember hearing, while growing up, that one takes out of an experience as much as one is willing to put into it.
Now that I have considerable experience of my own, I would add that when people have consciously kept their hearts, minds and souls pinched tightly closed, inundating themselves with pop culture and drivel, that events of unfathomable depth and breadth and meaning are lost on them.

Rosemary

(in reply to marksl)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 3:49:57 PM   
aleshaDreams


Posts: 184
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		Game !!!!! We're playing a game?   Geesh, is it anything like 'twister', your hand on red, mine on blue.......... *goes off to corner and sulks cause nobody invited me*.... Sorry i could not resist.

marksl, this is no game to me, i take my life quite seriously and perhaps too darn seriously at times, hell don't i have to pay rent today... damn.  it is what you want it to be, nothing more and certainly nothing less.  To me this is a serious journey; one that has be thought of long and hard to come to a decision that this is the road i must follow, and the play aspect well that is the added bonus, the connection and intensity with the Dominant i will be with is the reward.

< Message edited by aleshaDreams -- 8/1/2006 3:53:56 PM >

(in reply to marksl)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 3:53:04 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		For us the D/s side of it is not a game, it's what we are and how we live, and was that way way before we had a name for it. The BDSM side of it i would call play so some might call it a game.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to marksl)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 4:19:50 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		deleted 

< Message edited by marieToo -- 8/1/2006 4:46:38 PM >

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 4:21:57 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		General Reply to the OP:

I would say basically what MisPandora said.  Like any other type of relationship, its whatever you make of it, whatever you want it to be, whatever you seek out.

I personally find it to be a very emotionally rewarding experience (relationship) when its right. 

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 4:40:47 PM   
Kirei


Posts: 146
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		  A movie once said that citizenship in america is advanced citizenship, and you really have to want it.  Well the lifestyle is like advanced interpersonal relationships....you have to really want it bad to stay with it.  You will see the good and the bad.  You will see one couple living a life you would totally oppose, yet its their choice and its part of the lifestyle.  Each side thinks and says they are better to the top of their lungs, and you too if you desire can have your say.  The question is how badly do you want it?
Both involve a lot of work to get the facts right, or the ones that fit your point of view in life.  But you have to want it bad enough to sort through it all to find what you desire.
  Is it worth it in the end?  For me it is, because I don't wish to go back to the old me.

Koneko

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 4:45:23 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Who is "Zen?"

(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 4:59:26 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Do you honestly believe that certain human beings were born of their mother's womb for the sole purpose of serving, pleasing and benefitting another person, without ever giving thought to their own needs? 


The matrix of conditioning is forged solely of neither nature nor nurture, but both. We all stand shaped of the cruel or loving weather set upon us in life. Some desires and prejudices can be explained away with a peculiar account of one's ordeals, while yet others rise from that well of mystery, the depths of which are folly attempting to discern.

There is in each of us a supreme or servile animal. We can seek the civil desensitization of modern egalitarianism, or commune more closely with our instinctual and learned selves to understand best what inner archetype suits us.


Edited to add: I am not sure why you deleted the comment to which I am replying, so not to confuse our readers, I have quoted your original note above.



< Message edited by amayos -- 8/1/2006 5:22:06 PM >

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 5:22:21 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Do you honestly believe that certain human beings were born of their mother's womb for the sole purpose of serving, pleasing and benefitting another person, without ever giving thought to their own needs? 


The matrix of conditioning is forged of neither nature nor nurture, but both. We all stand shaped of the cruel or loving weather set upon us in life. Some desires and prejudices can be explained away with a peculiar account of one's ordeals, while yet others rise from that well of mystery, the depths of which are folly attempting to discern.

There is in each of us a supreme or servile animal. We can seek the civil desensitization of modern egalitarianism, or commune more closely with our instinctual and learned selves to understand best what inner archetype suits us.


Edited to add: I am not sure why you deleted the comment to which I am replying, so not to confuse our readers, I have quoted your original note above.


So would the answer to my question be a yes? 

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 5:29:26 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Do you honestly believe that certain human beings were born of their mother's womb for the sole purpose of serving, pleasing and benefitting another person, without ever giving thought to their own needs? 


The matrix of conditioning is forged of neither nature nor nurture, but both. We all stand shaped of the cruel or loving weather set upon us in life. Some desires and prejudices can be explained away with a peculiar account of one's ordeals, while yet others rise from that well of mystery, the depths of which are folly attempting to discern.

There is in each of us a supreme or servile animal. We can seek the civil desensitization of modern egalitarianism, or commune more closely with our instinctual and learned selves to understand best what inner archetype suits us.


Edited to add: I am not sure why you deleted the comment to which I am replying, so not to confuse our readers, I have quoted your original note above.


So would the answer to my question be a yes? 


Read my reply again for the answer.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 5:45:21 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos


quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Do you honestly believe that certain human beings were born of their mother's womb for the sole purpose of serving, pleasing and benefitting another person, without ever giving thought to their own needs? 


The matrix of conditioning is forged of neither nature nor nurture, but both. We all stand shaped of the cruel or loving weather set upon us in life. Some desires and prejudices can be explained away with a peculiar account of one's ordeals, while yet others rise from that well of mystery, the depths of which are folly attempting to discern.

There is in each of us a supreme or servile animal. We can seek the civil desensitization of modern egalitarianism, or commune more closely with our instinctual and learned selves to understand best what inner archetype suits us.


Edited to add: I am not sure why you deleted the comment to which I am replying, so not to confuse our readers, I have quoted your original note above.


So would the answer to my question be a yes? 


Read my reply again for the answer.


Yes, I have done that, several times now.  Thank you for explaining your thoughts.

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 5:47:46 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Yes, I have done that, several times now.  Thank you for explaining your thoughts.


You're welcome. I know you're looking for a yes or no answer, but it's really not that simple.




< Message edited by amayos -- 8/1/2006 5:59:01 PM >

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 5:47:56 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well, I read his answer again. And I thought it was educatonal and an attempt to demystify that:People have much inner processing going on that may draw them to a particular bdsm role, regardless of whether some (or any) of it can be logically explained as due to past experiences (or due to whatever). And that there isn't anything wrong with that, because it's a natural thing for many, and people shouldn't feel they need to shun it, or avoid it, due to cultural pre-conditioning, when actually the reality is that our basic inner selves are much more primal in motivation. Why is that something to be ashamed of? That is what I got out of it (in part) anyway.

*Wow. The silence here is deafening. How come nobody is saying anything? Or maybe I am just a compulsive chatterbox (in which case, I will be quiet so others can talk). Actually I will do that anyway. I am just curious why nobody else has opinions on this. Or agrees, or disagrees, or anything? I am thinking it's just not possible that nobody has opinions.

Then again, peaceful has its charms...

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/1/2006 6:14:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 6:49:38 PM   
BillsGalSusan


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline 		amayos wrote:
quote:

There is in each of us a supreme or servile animal. We can seek the civil desensitization of modern egalitarianism, or commune more closely with our instinctual and learned selves to understand best what inner archetype suits us.

I'm not so sure about this part.

My experience would suggest that different situations bring out different parts of ourselves. In work settings, I am far from servile, and although with dominant men, other than my own, I may feel a bit of a tickle, I have no desire to be submissive to them. If any of this is in some way archetypal, there is significant wiggle room in there, perhaps there is, within us, a continuum, rather than something quite so black and white.

Another Susan

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 7:06:31 PM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		I find the BDSM side very erotic.  Also, though, I'm not a trusting person, at all, by nature.  When I've found someone that I'm willing to give that kind of control over to, it makes me feel very safe.  Game or not, who cares?  If it feels good, do it!

(in reply to marksl)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Who Takes this Game Seriously? - 8/1/2006 7:18:55 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		nefertari: I tend to agree. Sometimes, does it really matter what the reason is you're enjoying something? (there are exceptions to that, obviously, but I don't think why someone enjoys bdsm may be one of  those cases, or knowing for certain that one reason is particularly more "valid, over another"). It can be interesting to speculate, and many people love to think about why things happen (or not), and maybe I am one of those types of people. But - my dead husband used to say to me sometimes, if he thought I was being overly analytical: "Suppose you knew the answer to that question? How would that help you?"

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/1/2006 8:16:19 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to nefertari)
Profile   Post #: 80
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