quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Well, I read his answer again. And I thought it was educatonal and an attempt to demystify that:People have much inner processing going on that may draw them to a particular bdsm role, regardless of whether some (or any) of it can be logically explained as due to past experiences (or due to whatever). And that there isn't anything wrong with that, because it's a natural thing for many, and people shouldn't feel they need to shun it, or avoid it, due to cultural pre-conditioning, when actually the reality is that our basic inner selves are much more primal in motivation. Why is that something to be ashamed of? That is what I got out of it (in part) anyway.

*Wow. The silence here is deafening. How come nobody is saying anything? Or maybe I am just a compulsive chatterbox (in which case, I will be quiet so others can talk). Actually I will do that anyway. I am just curious why nobody else has opinions on this. Or agrees, or disagrees, or anything? I am thinking it's just not possible that nobody has opinions.

Then again, peaceful has its charms...

- Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

marie: I agree there are snakes and lizards and real monsters out there. But I'd like to think (and hope) I'd never become involved with someone I truly could not trust, who didn't have my general good welfare at heart.

I know sometimes I feel compelled to answer threads from girls here who seem to be in really bad situations, who are convinced they need to stay. But I have to say, the men in these situations don't seem to me like real honest-to-God Masters (of anything, least of all themsleves). But - that is not what is referred to in this thread. But I know what you mean about wanting to protect people sometimes. 

There was one thread this morning, from a gal who'd been in a truly abusive relationship with a so-called Master and was obviously wanting to leave, but needed a little nudge. Well, the guy in her situation seemed to have completely ignored being Masterly in any sense of the word, had broken his part of any implied contract, and she felt guilty about wanting to  leave. Fortunately, she got about 2-3 pages of support, and maybe  that was all she needed. Maybe she willl leave.

There is a distinct difference, to me between a Master and a posuer. To me, that difference is someone who has my welfare at heart. I do think those Masters really can own someone, body, mind and soul, as a slave, and don't have a problem with that.Because I think there are some very trustworthy Master types out there (and I know you seem to probably think so, do too).

Fortunately, I credit myself with enough basically good gut instincts for self-preservation from the get-go to be able to discern the difference (I truly do, un-humble as that might sound. I truly think I have little ego, but do have plenty of self-esteem). Unfortunately, not everyone is that lucky, and the ruins are spread here at CM for all to see, every day.And, I pray that does not sound in any way self-congratulatory, or holier-than-anything. It's not meant to sound that way.

-Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl

Does anyone view this as all a game or is it just me. I have tried to see the deep meaningfull zen like qualities some people see in bdsm but i am at a loss. Instead i see manipluation child like arrogance but most of all fantasy. Somehow if you learn about bdsm buy a whip you are a Dom/me a superior human being incapable to listen to anyone else. If your a sub its hard to reply as your always on your knees. Sure its sterotypes but is this all it is?

Now before hit me with the deep spiritual ramblings on what bdsm should be. Lets be realistic its based in sexual context right. We all do this to get our rocks off. Pretending this is more than it is i want to learn so one day i can say yeah like a come down from ectasy i touched a bdsm god i felt the zen or is all that bullshit?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

marie: I agree with you, there is a difference, and the term slave is used differently by many here. I do think either way of life is a legitimate choice, for those who choose to live in those relationships. Because they are the ones, ultmately, who have to live in them.

I do think people in genuine, conventional Master-slave relationships such as amayos describes, do (or can) feel genuine love for their Masters, and are many times loved in return loved back by those Masters, but not in a more conventional way that might ncessarily be understood by some (maybe by many) people. And - if they are not, well, they've chosen it for themselves, for whatever reason.

For the ones who seem to not have chosen wisely, or cannnot seem to escape what seems (or is) truly abusive, I simply pray for them. 

- Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Homestead: Yes. That's my interpretation too.

- Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO


I do think people in genuine, conventional Master-slave relationships such as amayos describes, do (or can) feel genuine love for their Masters, and are many times in return loved back by those Masters, but not in a more conventional way that might ncessarily be understood by some (maybe by many) people. And - if they are not, well, they've chosen it for themselves, for whatever reason. 



- Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

My take on consensual slavery is that it's not about boyfriend/girlfriend playing a romantic sex game. That would seem to be the majority rule.

The minority take is a bit more spartan. The dynamic itself rules the relationship more-not the romantic. It does not rule out that aspect, only places it secondary to the philosophy of structured relations-and exactly who excercises the primary perogatives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

My take on consensual slavery is that it's not about boyfriend/girlfriend playing a romantic sex game. That would seem to be the majority rule.

The minority take is a bit more spartan. The dynamic itself rules the relationship more-not the romantic. It does not rule out that aspect, only places it secondary to the philosophy of structured relations-and exactly who excercises the primary perogatives.

Very astute and well articulated—and with fewer words than it usually takes me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
I dont think there is "shame" in any of it, as long as no one is being taken advantage of in a way that is going to leave them damaged.  This is the part that concerns me.  Submissives being convinced that they are somehow divine and meant to live their lives as slaves....I mean slaves.  After a while you're fucked.  You cant get out, you dont believe you can get out.  You dont want to get out.  Its just dangerous.  Your life as you know it is over.  And people havent a clue how serious it is. It agitates me how easily the word slave is thrown around by those who have no clue that this shit goes on to an extent that most have never and will never understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

There is a huge difference between people who live their lives in slavery as opposed to someone who considers him/herself a slave to their lover or their spouse. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
I dont think there is "shame" in any of it, as long as no one is being taken advantage of in a way that is going to leave them damaged.  This is the part that concerns me.  Submissives being convinced that they are somehow divine and meant to live their lives as slaves....I mean slaves.  After a while you're fucked.  You cant get out, you dont believe you can get out.  You dont want to get out.  Its just dangerous.  Your life as you know it is over.  And people havent a clue how serious it is. It agitates me how easily the word slave is thrown around by those who have no clue that this shit goes on to an extent that most have never and will never understand.