quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
An owner possesses a certain level of mental compartmentalization to keep his or her control. One one hand, one can have real affection for a piece of property..On the other, it is never forgotten why it is there-or what needs to be done to keep it so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
I dont think there is "shame" in any of it, as long as no one is being taken advantage of in a way that is going to leave them damaged.  This is the part that concerns me.  Submissives being convinced that they are somehow divine and meant to live their lives as slaves....I mean slaves.  After a while you're fucked.  You cant get out, you dont believe you can get out.  You dont want to get out.  Its just dangerous.  Your life as you know it is over.  And people havent a clue how serious it is. It agitates me how easily the word slave is thrown around by those who have no clue that this shit goes on to an extent that most have never and will never understand.

There was so much on this thread that I wanted to reply to, but your post really stood out to me, marie.

I agree with you fully that the word slave is thrown around rather casually.  What I do not understand is the first part of your post, in which you seem to be describing slavery to be a bad thing (unless I have misunderstood) .  Assuming you are speaking generically, how is slavery dangerous?  Or do you mean if it is in the wrong hands?  "Your life as you know it is over" is true, but why is that considered bad?  I thank God and Master that life as I knew it is over.  Perhaps we are looking at this from different angles.

In reading further, you do not equate slavery with romance; neither do I.  I agree with you there as well, which is why I had trouble understanding your other statements, which seemed negative toward slavery.  Again, please correct me if I have misunderstood.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl
Pretending this is more than it is i want to learn so one day i can say yeah like a come down from ectasy i touched a bdsm god i felt the zen or is all that bullshit?

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In a 24/7 relationship you could have a constant undercurrent of sexual tension that just doesn't exist in the vanilla world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Homestead: Yes. That's mostly my interpretation too. Although I don't seem to hear as much on the CM boards from those in the spartan category, I know there exist those I have seemed to put in one category, and then they turn out later to be in the other one, (or another altogether), because they either change, or else I haven't read enough of what they've written to be able to make a valid judgment about that for myself, really.  
- Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I am opposed to slavery the way that I have seen it in my own experiences.   I am not saying that everyone who considers themselves a slave is in a detrimental relationship.  But I *am* saying that I have a hard time imagining the type of slavery that we're talking about here being good for anyone.  I wish I could view it in a more positive light with a more open mind.  But I just cant.

quote:

I think our service to another human being, should we choose that, is supposed to enhance who we are, not define it.  How does someone reach a point where they self-identify as a slave, first and foremost?  A slave.  Not a man, not a woman, not a human, but a slave.

Whats your occupation?  Im a slave.  Whats your purpose?  To live for my Masters benefit.  What do you do?  I do as Im told.  Are you happy this way?  Of course I am, Im a slave.  It reminds me of someone who has been lobotomized, and I find it sad. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
Is this altruistic? No, it is purely selfish on my part. It also vastly enhances the value of my property..And allows me to feel good about myself, my partner-and what we do together.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Marie,

Thank you for such a well thought out and personal reply.  I think I can better understand the lense with which you see. 

My experience, which is all I can honestly reference, is different.  My experience has been that I have not known that freedom you speak of (roots stretching out) until I became enslaved to my Master.  Why?  Because I did not know how to grow outward on my own.  I was stunted.  Think of a rat in a maze, always bumping up against thw wrong walls, never finding the pathway to the next phase. Ending up with nothing but frustration and a headache :)

In my slavery, I have room to grow as far as my possibilities will stretch.  I have that room because I am allowed it.  Crumbs are laid out in my maze - I still must find my way but when I get stuck, I have clues and references which show me the right path to take.  You see slavery, or the need to serve, as a vulnerability which becomes exploited.  If in the wrong hands, this is an absolute risk.  But...what if in the right hands? 

Let me give you my personal example. Since becoming enslaved to Master, I have done the following as a result of his instruction:

* I went to New York to reconcile a three year rift with my sister
* I became reacquainted with my family, from whom I was isolated and cast, and like the Prodigal Son, was welcomed "home" with open arms.
* I ended the abuse I was receiving in a marriage that was emotionally killing me (ie; two suicide attempts in past years)
* I am back in school, finishing my degree
* I was promoted at work, yet interviewing for another, higher level position
* I learned to love myself again
* I now enjoy self confidence and a healthy self esteem
* I learned to communicate better so that (hopefully) I am better understood
* I learned to analyze my own thoughts and feelings, so that I could better understand myself - who I am, who I want to be, and where I must travel to get there
* I discovered I have the strength of a lion in me, and can endure the un-endureable
* I learned (and am experiencing) what real love is, and that it is OK to be happy - it really is OK.
* I have let go of an incredible amount of baggage that was holding me back in life
* I have become a sexual, sensual being who enjoys her sexuality and her body and its capabilities.

Not to drone on and on, but these are the examples that fall off the top of my head.  Is my life enhanced?  In more ways that I could have ever imagined.  I do live for my Master's benefit, and he pushes me hard.  He has enjoyed watching me evolve, and he knows exactly how much pushing I need.  But this is the result of living for his benefit.  I am better, stronger, (faster....bionic!). 

Some say he micromanages.  Some say he is too strict, too controlling.  Some say he is outright "mean."  Those who know me closely all say the same thing:  "He is good for you.  You are finally happy and strong." 

Hopefully this gives you a different perspective of what slavery can be.  I understand your truth, and how it can be unhealthy.  But that is not the only way it can be. 

Thank you again for your reply, Marie.  Hopefully  my own reply in return offers some hope that slavery can indeed be a wonderful state.

Edited for typos

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain


We are the narrators and the position from which we observe the action can be detached or involved, inside or outside, far or near or any stage in between. We may even try to distance ourselves from the characters in a kind of omniscient, third person, scientific expose, but because we are also protagonists the distance between us and the characters is nearly imperceptible.

Actually, we are all far more breathing, feeling and loving characters in the story than narrators.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillsGalSusan

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I am opposed to slavery the way that I have seen it in my own experiences.   I am not saying that everyone who considers themselves a slave is in a detrimental relationship.  But I *am* saying that I have a hard time imagining the type of slavery that we're talking about here being good for anyone.  I wish I could view it in a more positive light with a more open mind.  But I just cant.

What an intriguing post, marieToo. Thank you.

I think there is something else going on, as well, having to do with what we use as our frame of reference in our relationships. When I was a little girl, perhaps ten or so, I had dreams/fantasies about something I now identify as suspension bondage. I also played with other children in ways that I now know are fairly typical for women who later identify themselves as submissives or slaves--serving, being punished for being bad, being controlled by others.

I didn't have language for any of that then, and later, in the 70s, when my relationship with Bill began, I still didn't have knowledge of the Master/slave (or even the Dom/sub)  community/scene/culture.

There are advantages to that, I think, in that we didn't have some sort of "ideal standard" to measure up to as our relationship developed, over time. We didn't develop some sort of sense of kinky political correctness either. I'd like to try to give you an example, from our everyday life.

Last night, we were watching TV after dinner. At about 8 PM, I asked Bill if he would like some dessert. He asked me what we had in the house, and decided to have a small dish of ice cream with  fresh berries. I said I thought I would like some berries with yogurt. He nodded and  I went into the kitchen and returned with the dessert, then, after he was done, returned the empty bowls to the kitchen and placed them in the dishwasher.

How vanilla is that?

I could, with no lack of accuracy, describe the same thing this way:

Last night, I was curled up on the couch, my head in Master's lap, as is his preference. Master often likes dessert two hours after dinner, so at 8 PM, I asked him if he would like me to serve him dessert. Standing before him, I recited the list of choices available, and awaited his reply. I then asked for permission to have yogurt and berries. I'd really prefer ice cream too, but Master watches his slaves weight and health, and would never agree to this variance from her prescribed diet. When Master indicated he was done, I quietly gathered up the plates and slipped out of the room so that I might complete my nightly chores.

Hummmm, am I less submissive because of my language choice? Is what goes on in our relationship really any less hot?  Can anyone, other than Bill and me, actually know the answer to these questions?

Another Susan

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: marksl
Does anyone view this as all a game or is it just me.

For me, sure BDSM play is just that, play, fun, nothing serious... D/s however is something natural to me. No zen-like crapolla, I have a Dominant personality, in a relationship I take the Dominant role, I am suited to having (And tend to attract) partners who are submissive in nature. Nothing fancy, nothing deep, just who I am and who she is. No games, no masks and certainly not just sex. Simply what works, for me and for those who end up involved with me.