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RE: SATAN!! - 8/4/2006 5:18:16 PM

chantrea

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*pouts as Master IB ignores her*

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/4/2006 5:20:12 PM

IronBear

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Had to go back nd read the thread...... 'Morning sweet trea.... Might be hard to heel with the Duck Pond in the way..Perhaps the command "Floaties" would work?

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/4/2006 5:24:53 PM

puella

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thank you feistykitten...

I might be a total fuckwhit, but I am rarely working on just one level. (Unless, of course its Level.)

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/4/2006 5:27:24 PM

knees2you

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quote:

1 - arent angels what all the good people that have died become?????????
2 - and if we become angels when we die does that mean that we then all become slaves to god our free will taken from us?

(in reply to feistykitten)

quote:

ok . for all the bible thumpers in here let me state this . the ORIGINAL teachings or prohecys as they were of the one called Jesus Christ were written in a language dead and defunct ..... it was called sandscrit .. a language with no literal translation in any modern form .. other languages have the same issues . if read as leteral in translation they make no sense but since the teacher/translator says it a certain way now it makes sense .... so in as something is once written a certain way we take it as literal from the translators point of view ...... the bible as we know it has had at least 4 different versions written over the years .. and thats all that needs to be said . what we know of satan is what someone else whispered in our ear so now we assume that it is true . the real translation was lost shortly after the death of the one called Jesus Christ Tamerofwild1s

The People Who wrote the Testaments of Jesus wrote
them in Hebrew because they where Hebrew!
Enough about that~ Next.

No we don't be become Angels!
We are above the Angels.
We are the ones Who will be sitting by God!

Ant, and LilBecque

< Message edited by knees2you -- 8/4/2006 5:28:31 PM >

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/4/2006 6:01:04 PM

chantrea

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Master IB~ floaties would work! Just gotta cross the duckpond!!!

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/5/2006 1:16:56 AM

Emperor1956

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quote:

mnottertail said: Satan and his demons? Never heard the group do any rappin'.

Sure, you have. Only they were called the Jackson Five. Tell Me there isn't some spawn of Satan running around THERE?

E.

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"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/5/2006 2:04:16 AM

LadyNeets

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Just for Gauge

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/5/2006 4:32:45 AM

LaTigresse

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Positively delightfully devilish!!

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/5/2006 10:35:31 AM

puella

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Actually as the new testament was written piece meal (and none of it during the life time of Christ) they were not all written in Hebrew.. Some were written in Aramaic (which was the common language during the life time of Christ) and a great deal were written in Koine Greek. As for Sanskrit... there were translations into Sanskrit, as well as Latin, but the only original documents to date in Sanscrit are the Dead Sea Scrolls.

< Message edited by puella -- 8/5/2006 10:36:04 AM >

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/6/2006 10:54:58 AM

NakedOnMyChain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: feistykitten

ahhh thank you Master Iron Bear as always you are most informative.

but what are we if we end up in heaven then?

Dead people. LOL. Seriously. According to Roman Catholic dogma, the act of dying is merely shedding our earthly selves. In other words, we become spirit, pure soul.

Like Iron Bear said, the angels were created before us as a completely different race.

Knees2you, technically we aren't above angels, either. As far as advancement, the angels are far above us. After all, they can only do God's will. We, given free will, have screwed things up and appear as ants (no pun intended

) by comparison. In the end, the angels will be sitting by God as well as the faithful. Humans are, however, the especially beloved creation of God.

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/6/2006 2:23:01 PM

puella

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It is always so interesting when yanno.. you flood out and destroy your most beloved.. or give them the ultimatum of finding some way to be good enough for you or else rot in a pit of eternal damnation... I love that kind of 'beloved', thanks God!

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 8:31:18 AM

addisonclarkgirl

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Then there's our beloved God who put His own Son on the cross to bear our sins. That's how beloved we are. He didn't want us to be seperated from Him any longer by our sins.

It's just like our own fathers here on earth. Weren't you ever punished? Why were you punished? So you could learn, so you could be a better person, so you could make the right choices, because you are loved .

Go ahead and call me a Bible thumper, but i'm sure there is one verse that most of us know. It's also one of the most beautiful things said in the Bible. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son. That whoever believes in Him may not perish, but have everlasting life."

That's all you have to do, is just believe. You don't have to be good all the time; you don't have to say you're not going to sin any longer; you don't have to tithe every Sunday; you don't even have to go to church. You just have to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the One who saves you and will give you eternal life.

Satan, Lucifer, whatever you want to call him is NOT getting a bum deal. He is evil. He is what keeps us apart from God. He's the part of this world that kills and destroys. He puts the anger, jealousy, bitterness, laziness, resentful feelings inside of us. That's not getting a bum deal; it's the truth.

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 8:40:23 AM

IronBear

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Valid comment lass, for the Christian amongst us. Good on you for making that statement it was well said. I must comment however, other beliefs, faiths or religions and what have you may not agree or endorse this and follow their own beliefs...

Just a thought from an elderly pagan priest..

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 8:43:24 AM

addisonclarkgirl

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i understand that there are other beliefs out there. i had a Dom for a number of years who is also a Pagan. i learned quite a bit from Him, but i am a Christian, and this is what i believe.

< Message edited by addisonclarkgirl -- 8/7/2006 8:44:15 AM >

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 8:55:38 AM

Dorsai

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actually puerta is totally and absolutely correct about the new testament. no part of it is know to have been written in J.C. lifetime, and unlikely by even a contemporary. many don't believe this, but nevertheless, is so.

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 9:00:15 AM

Dorsai

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oops! correction. I meant to say puella

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 10:08:45 AM

SirKenin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

quote:

1 - arent angels what all the good people that have died become?????????
2 - and if we become angels when we die does that mean that we then all become slaves to god our free will taken from us?

(in reply to feistykitten)

quote:

ok . for all the bible thumpers in here let me state this . the ORIGINAL teachings or prohecys as they were of the one called Jesus Christ were written in a language dead and defunct ..... it was called sandscrit .. a language with no literal translation in any modern form .. other languages have the same issues . if read as leteral in translation they make no sense but since the teacher/translator says it a certain way now it makes sense .... so in as something is once written a certain way we take it as literal from the translators point of view ...... the bible as we know it has had at least 4 different versions written over the years .. and thats all that needs to be said . what we know of satan is what someone else whispered in our ear so now we assume that it is true . the real translation was lost shortly after the death of the one called Jesus Christ Tamerofwild1s

The People Who wrote the Testaments of Jesus wrote
them in Hebrew because they where Hebrew!
Enough about that~ Next.

No we don't be become Angels!
We are above the Angels.
We are the ones Who will be sitting by God!

Ant, and LilBecque

I have to be honest knees. I have read much of your preaching, and 95% of it is wrong. I do not know where you go to church, if that is where you get your information, but I would switch.

The Testaments were largely written in Greek, not Hebrew.

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 10:24:13 AM

SirKenin

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Naked, the Catholics have some pretty twisted views on things too. The angels must have free will, because Lucifer was not the only angel to fall. Lucifer was a prominent archangel that let pride get the better of him. The story goes that he became to feel that he was better than God, leading a rebellion against him that failed. The story tells us that a third of the angels in Heaven were cast out along with him. The demons that we know today are fallen angels.

I agree with the poster that stated that you cannot know good if you do not know evil. We know evil exists. We see it manifest itself every day. Demons and demonic possession. Murder, violence and many other crimes. Satan himself has actually been recorded as possessing people. He is very real, and those that laugh at him and brush him off will one day experience him face to face. They will not be laughing then. Thankfully there is an alternative.

I do believe the same as the Catholics do that we return to a "spirit form" or energy when we die. There is a simple law that no energy can be created and none can be taken away. However, that spirit form will one day stand before God to answer for our actions here on earth and "good works" are just not going to cut it.

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 11:18:13 AM

NakedOnMyChain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Naked, the Catholics have some pretty twisted views on things too. The angels must have free will, because Lucifer was not the only angel to fall. Lucifer was a prominent archangel that let pride get the better of him. The story goes that he became to feel that he was better than God, leading a rebellion against him that failed. The story tells us that a third of the angels in Heaven were cast out along with him. The demons that we know today are fallen angels.

Yep. But nowhere does that mean they didn't have free will. According to the catechism, they didn't. By official Roman Catholic doctrine the only ones who have free will are God and Humans. From that standpoint it kinda sucks to be a fallen angel.

LOL. By the way, I'm sure we all know that I think it's a load of tosh anyway. I'm choosing the Catholic mythology to argue from because it's the one I'm most familiar with. And it's fun to intelligently debate.

quote:

I agree with the poster that stated that you cannot know good if you do not know evil. We know evil exists. We see it manifest itself every day. Demons and demonic possession. Murder, violence and many other crimes. Satan himself has actually been recorded as possessing people. He is very real, and those that laugh at him and brush him off will one day experience him face to face. They will not be laughing then. Thankfully there is an alternative.

See, now I don't believe in hell, as such. Neither do I believe in Satan. Evil, however, is out there and is very real. I do believe, though, that it is a largely human creation. As for demons, lets just say I've seen some things that I would rather not have.

quote:

I do believe the same as the Catholics do that we return to a "spirit form" or energy when we die. There is a simple law that no energy can be created and none can be taken away. However, that spirit form will one day stand before God to answer for our actions here on earth and "good works" are just not going to cut it.

If I snap back into the Catholic argument thing, then yes. It's that whole "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," thing. We came from dust and to dust we shall return, but our spirit goes to God to stand judgement.

However, even Catholics believe that good works can cut it, provided you lived a good life, and your intent was pure.

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"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 11:56:53 AM

SirKenin

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Yeah, I know they believe good works will get you to Heaven. Well, most do anyways. However, that is completely anti-Biblical (and incidentally the part they deleted out of their own Bible if I recall correctly).

It has nothing to do with Caesar though. That argument was given by Jesus when the Jews were complaining about paying their taxes to the Romans.

But yeah, there is every reason to believe that Satan had free will and rose up against God. It is in the Bible, but unfortunately I am feeling entirely too lazy to look it up for you. I have not moved from this chair in over an hour. lol. Satan has been recorded to possess humans in our lifetime and identified himself as such. However I have only actually seen one demonic possession and that was enough for Me.

And I know you are Wiccan, so you do not believe any of this, but it is fun to debate regardless. The Catholics have some of it right, but some of it they screwed up royally.

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