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RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 12:20:27 PM   
CatNmouse2002


Posts: 110
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Yeah, I know they believe good works will get you to Heaven.  Well, most do anyways.  However, that is completely anti-Biblical (and incidentally the part they deleted out of their own Bible if I recall correctly).

It has nothing to do with Caesar though.  That argument was given by Jesus when the Jews were complaining about paying their taxes to the Romans. 

But yeah, there is every reason to believe that Satan had free will and rose up against God.  It is in the Bible, but unfortunately I am feeling entirely too lazy to look it up for you.  I have not moved from this chair in over an hour. lol.  Satan has been recorded to possess humans in our lifetime and identified himself as such.  However I have only actually seen one demonic possession and that was enough for Me.

And I know you are Wiccan, so you do not believe any of this, but it is fun to debate regardless.  The Catholics have some of it right, but some of it they screwed up royally.

Are you seriously using the Bible as a history reference of Satan ?



Oh never mind I am not getting into this foolishness .


[troll]

Of course Pan got a bum wrap . So did the Morning Star , and the Green Man . Tom Sawyer got the shit end of the stick a couple of times as well .

I remember this episode of Superman comic where Satan got his ass stomped by Superman . I mean come on ... Superman beating Satan when just 2,000 years ago Jesus  just sat there andbored him for a month in the Desert ? Where is the justice in that ? Jesus should have beaten him like a Jewish money lender (Mathew 21-12).

Then there was the episode in Buffy the Vampire slayer where these humans were summoning one of Satans underlings to take care of Buffy so they could then be vampires (immortal) with no one to stop them . Of course Buffy whooped there terrorist demon summoning asses .

But that is why fiction is so awesome . The bad guys always lose and Truth , Justice , Freedom and the American Way win . Not to mention way cool things like God , Satan , and Magic can excist .

/troll]



< Message edited by CatNmouse2002 -- 8/7/2006 12:21:57 PM >

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 12:42:52 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Actually there are many places where you can find references to Satan besides the Bible, but the Bible is an obvious one.  You would have to be an idiot to discount it as one of several sources.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to CatNmouse2002)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 1:06:59 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Yeah, I know they believe good works will get you to Heaven.  Well, most do anyways.  However, that is completely anti-Biblical (and incidentally the part they deleted out of their own Bible if I recall correctly).


Most likely.  Along with a million other things that didn't fit their "truth".

quote:

It has nothing to do with Caesar though.  That argument was given by Jesus when the Jews were complaining about paying their taxes to the Romans. 


I know.  I was trying to get across the whole "give to the earth what belongs to the earth, and give to God what is God's" thing.  Since the body is of this world, and our spirit is of the next, then the spirit is what would go to God.

quote:

But yeah, there is every reason to believe that Satan had free will and rose up against God.  It is in the Bible, but unfortunately I am feeling entirely too lazy to look it up for you.  I have not moved from this chair in over an hour. lol.  Satan has been recorded to possess humans in our lifetime and identified himself as such.  However I have only actually seen one demonic possession and that was enough for Me.


It's probably another part that was conveniently edited out of the Catholic version.  LOL.  I know what you're talking about, though.  I've read other versions.

quote:

And I know you are Wiccan, so you do not believe any of this, but it is fun to debate regardless.  The Catholics have some of it right, but some of it they screwed up royally.


LOL.  Exactly!  That's why I'm not Catholic anymore (I was raised in a very strict Catholic environment.  Not even a public school until I was sixteen).  But trust me, it doesn't make my family happy.  Generations and generations of good Irish and French Catholics are probably rolling over in their graves every time I get naked and run around outside calling out to the gods I prefer. 

Edited to add:  Then again, I think all religions missed the boat a little in various ways.  None of us got things exactly right.  That's what happens when you throw human, very fallible interpretation into the mix.

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 8/7/2006 1:10:06 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 1:30:17 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Precisely.  I could not agree more.  I do not go to church anymore because they all missed the boat with their wild interpretations and ideas.  It seems to be whatever fits their lifestyle.  Oh, the Bible says homosexuals will not enter Heaven?  Ok, we will just delete that part, create a new Bible and ordain them anyways.  Oh, the Bible says that women are not to speak in the church?  That MUST mean that they can not preach, so therefore we will not ordain women.  Look at the history surrounding that passage?  Why would we?  It does not fit in with our dogma.  The Bible says you can not get drunk?  Oh, that must mean you can not drink either.  What do you mean it does not say that?  We will MAKE it say that.

Mistranslation after mistranslation.  Look at the King James Version and the times in which that translation was done.  Look how much they messed up.

Jeez, I could go on and on and on why I hate organized religion and people coming in here preaching about something they clearly know nothing about, but it would take up an entire thread in itself.  It just serves to take away credibility from those that did do their homework and who do not feel they have to fill an offering plate in order to worship God.  Gaaaaah.  Bahh humbug.

Catholic Church:  Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 1:49:50 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Oh, Naked, I will share something semi-humorous with you.  My dad is a retired teacher (physics and math, B.Sc) and a retired ordained minister (M.Div).  Both degrees from Abilene Christian University in Texas.  Let Me tell you, we have some REALLY interesting conversations.  lol

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 2:12:22 PM   
CatNmouse2002


Posts: 110
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		Am I the only one who thinks maybe religion is a Artificial Construct ? That maybe it had it's place in it's day ? That maybe we as a species have outgrown it , now that information is being exchanged and our knowledge base has grown ? . 

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 2:21:32 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		No, actually archaeology and science are proving more and more of what they Bible says to be true.  I have followed some of it.  I have a really interesting book "The Bible as History" that might tickle your fancy.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to CatNmouse2002)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 2:31:13 PM   
CatNmouse2002


Posts: 110
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		I have read alot of those books ... I don't have any handy to reference . One I read was pretty good ... and was written by a teacher from some Catholic Seminary . It started off as a text in support of the bible  ... but ended up being the final straw and turned him athiest. The funny thing was last I heard he was doing videos for the Church and School of Wicca and still on the payroll of the Seminary ...

God I wish I could remember that dudes name ... it is an excellent reference for both sides of the debate , becouse he did find alot some good solid evidence on both sides .. and included it in the book .

He came to the conclusion that the book ( the bible)  is mostly fiction with stories set in real places in real time periods writen to explain and document unexplainable natural events and help control the masses .

I tend to agree with him .

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: SATAN!! - 8/7/2006 11:19:10 PM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

many times I have refused to get into a battle of the bible and christianity ... and to stop your next question . yes I am catholic . I raised in a christian home . for pete sake I was an alter boy too. so now debate me on the bible as you know it . it is nothing more then a very long played out game of operator .... passing one version on to the next each translating it to mean what they need it to mean ... the Devil . he was an angel ... the chief angel if you have it .. after a fallout with the almighty . he was cast into hell to rule for eternity in damnation ..... now I have to say Puella hit right about on it . if this the truth according to your bible then our God is one of retribution . yet the bible says hes the all forgiving god
 
maybe I should walk away from this thread before I get flamed for translations of the bible that people really don't want to hear Tamerofwild1s

 
One Lady said to me, the Bible means different things to different people!
 
So if the Bible says "Moses parted the Red Sea" It means?
 
Hmmm? Maybe He parted the Red sea!
 
Writen In Hebrews by Hebrews.
 
Ant, and LilBecque



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: SATAN!! - 8/8/2006 12:17:35 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

One Lady said to me, the Bible means different things to different people!
 
So if the Bible says "Moses parted the Red Sea" It means?
 
Hmmm? Maybe He parted the Red sea!
 
Writen In Hebrews by Hebrews.
 
Ant, and LilBecque



So if the Bible says "Moses parted the Red Sea" It means?

"Farted the Seed Pee"?????

(As quoted in the Red Pee Polls)


< Message edited by IronBear -- 8/8/2006 12:19:32 AM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: SATAN!! - 8/8/2006 8:25:24 AM   
dorsaisgirl1


Posts: 156
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		first of all evil is in all of us its a part of the kindest person you know and it is part of you its not the devil that makes you do bad things its you and your choices.there is good in everyone even in the hearts of mass murders they just choise to do things that are evil.noone is in control of our actions (free will).......
                     second if you believe the bible god is all powerfull so why give his only begoton son to be crucifiyed a simpel you are forgiven would have serficed i dont see it as love that would bring a father to tourcher his son for the sins of others. sure if im bad i want to be punished i dont say i did wrong punish him .
             of course this is just my opionin and opionins are like assholes everyone has one . if you want to be affraid of the devil thats ok but i would think that it would be smarter to try and make good decisions and just be nice to people.

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: SATAN!! - 8/8/2006 10:50:35 PM   
MistyMenthal


Posts: 413
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Precisely.  I could not agree more.  I do not go to church anymore because they all missed the boat with their wild interpretations and ideas.  It seems to be whatever fits their lifestyle.  Oh, the Bible says homosexuals will not enter Heaven?  Ok, we will just delete that part, create a new Bible and ordain them anyways.  Oh, the Bible says that women are not to speak in the church?  That MUST mean that they can not preach, so therefore we will not ordain women.  Look at the history surrounding that passage?  Why would we?  It does not fit in with our dogma.  The Bible says you can not get drunk?  Oh, that must mean you can not drink either.  What do you mean it does not say that?  We will MAKE it say that.

Mistranslation after mistranslation.  Look at the King James Version and the times in which that translation was done.  Look how much they messed up.

Jeez, I could go on and on and on why I hate organized religion and people coming in here preaching about something they clearly know nothing about, but it would take up an entire thread in itself.  It just serves to take away credibility from those that did do their homework and who do not feel they have to fill an offering plate in order to worship God.  Gaaaaah.  Bahh humbug.

Catholic Church:  Serving up guilt since 107 AD.


Speak English my Dear~

Nighttime MISTY

(in reply to dorsaisgirl1)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: SATAN!! - 8/9/2006 5:48:46 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Catholic Church:  Serving up guilt since 107 AD.


Come on, you know you want to.  I can tell.  I smell new sig line.  It even matches the one you already have perfectly! 

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: SATAN!! - 8/9/2006 5:57:50 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatNmouse2002

Am I the only one who thinks maybe religion is a Artificial Construct ? That maybe it had it's place in it's day ? That maybe we as a species have outgrown it , now that information is being exchanged and our knowledge base has grown ? . 


Nope, you're not the only one.  I see religion as an artificial construct.  After all, all religion is based on human interpretation of the divine.  However, I believe the divine principle is not an artificial construct  (In other words, we didn't make God).  Whatever we believe about the powers that be, whatever names we call them, whatever ways we worship are skewed by our fallible senses.  So I simply choose to give thanks in the way that feels best and suits me most.  It just happens to involve my interpretation of ancient Celtic lore and ritual mixed with Native American spirituality in a solitary Wiccan sense.

Is my spiritual path outdated?  Probably.  It won't stop me.  It feels right.  Are most religions outdated?  Probably.  They probably were ten minutes after they were created.  Will that stop people?  No.  It's where they find comfort, and in that sense, no religion will ever be outdated. 

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to CatNmouse2002)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: SATAN!! - 8/9/2006 7:12:18 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Catholic Church:  Serving up guilt since 107 AD.


Come on, you know you want to.  I can tell.  I smell new sig line.  It even matches the one you already have perfectly! 


lol.  I think I might just have to do that.  Great idea.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: SATAN!! - 8/9/2006 8:15:52 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Catholic Church:  Serving up guilt since 107 AD.


Come on, you know you want to.  I can tell.  I smell new sig line.  It even matches the one you already have perfectly! 


lol.  I think I might just have to do that.  Great idea.


Personally I find the tage lines offensive and formally ask that they be removed..

quote:

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.


I'm damned sure that should I use a tag line denigrating another's faith such as an anti Christian or anti Muslim tag line the Mods would be all over me for using it as would quite a few CM Members...


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: SATAN!! - 8/9/2006 9:43:55 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Considering the amount of bashing that goes on in here over ANYBODY'S beliefs, Christian, atheist or whatever, I do not feel compelled to remove a tag line because someone finds it offensive.  And, considering that the Wicca one is all over the internet makes Me less likely to do so.

I find them humorous, and if you wish to bash My faith, that is your perogative, but I can guarantee you that I will not find it offensive.  You are entitled to your opinion.  I am entitled to Mine, and the last thing I want is to be censored.  If we censored everything on this message board that someone found offensive there would not be a message board left to post on.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: SATAN!! - 8/9/2006 9:46:10 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		By the way, the Wicca one has been in My sig for over a month now.  It is interesting how you did not comment on that one.  You had plenty of opportunity to do so.  You would not happen to be Catholic by chance, would you?

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: SATAN!! - 8/9/2006 11:04:34 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Actually no, I was simply debating for quite some time about the matter.. I decided to make the request in part because of a discussion I was having with others of my faith who read the forums but never participate.. It is probably just as well that CM is not based in Australian for your signature line would be considered an offense under the religious discrimination laws...  I certainly agree with the freedom to express your opinion, however on a personal basis, I draw the line at cheap shots at some one else’s religion, irrespective what it is.. To answer your question, no I am not a Catholic although I am well versed in the Roman Rites in both English and Latin. I am but a simple ordained Pagan Priest, nothing more or less.. But thank you for responding to my comment. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: SATAN!! - 8/9/2006 1:11:31 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Well, I do respect your choice of religion.  I may not agree with it, but then again I am not well versed in paganism anyways.  All I know is that a lot of our modern traditions are based in paganism (weddings anyone?)

I put those in My sig because they are true.  Completely factual.  Catholicism is a guilt based religion, Wicca, a manufactured religion concocted from a collection of beliefs gathered in the 1920's. 

I have had people take "cheap shots" at Me in here because of My faith, but that is the way it is on a message board.  I would never dream of censoring them, and I have a thick skin so it does not bother Me.  I am comfortable in who I am and a nobody on a message board can not shake that.  I guess I just expect the same of others.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 120
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