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RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/4/2006 3:06:50 PM   
BillsGalSusan


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Although I may put up an excellent front (apparently), I still feel pretty shaky inside some days.

It's a big step, and, IMO, being a little shaky is far better than being over confident. No matter how bad your marriage was, being newly widowed and on the verge of seeking a new relationship (even if it were a vanilla one) would be a big shaky-making deal.

Another Susan

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/4/2006 3:08:11 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I dunno. I feel I need someone to lean on that has no ulterior motive. And I really can sometimes feeel so needy (I know that doesn't probably show, but trust me, it's a quality I can have) I feel I might just melt into "goo" with the wrong person, simply because I have so little experience (and have been a bit lonely) that I need somebody to say: Stop, and pay attention to X, Y or Z before you go further (or whatever). Or: Ask then this question. Good friends (male or female) probably serve the same purpose, in many ways.

But, it did knock me for a loop today, when I read I think it was the "Ask a Master" forum, and one question was: What do I ask a prospective Dominant? And I had not thought of ever asking at least 70% of the things people were relating as potential questions. It scared me, because the were good questions to ask someone. But they'd never crossed my mind. I am going to refer back to that thread, too, when I need it.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/4/2006 3:17:28 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/4/2006 3:11:30 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		BillsGalSusan: Thanks for the sweet reply. It was nice of you to say.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BillsGalSusan)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/4/2006 3:12:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
And I really can sometimes feeel so needy (I know that doesn't probably show, but trust me, it's a quality I can have) I feel I might just melt into "goo" with the wrong person, simply because I have so little experience (and have been a bit lonely) that I need somebody to say: Stop, and pay attention to X, Y or Z before you go further (or whatever). Or: Ask then this question. Good friends (male or female) probabvly serve the same purpose, in many ways.

They do...but more importantly YOU do.  I understand if you feel too weak to do that for yourself right now (and honestly to me, your hungry needy loneliness has been pretty much a neon sign for awhile now), but a mentor isn't there to make choices for you, only advise you.  In time, you should grow to need your mentor LESS- to trust yourself MORE. 

quote:

But they'd never crossed my mind. I am going to refer back to that thread, too, when I need it.

- Susan 

I think the situation is simple sitting here at my computer- you aren't ready to get into any committed situation.  You likely won't be ready for at least 6 months and likely longer.

So don't get yourself into that situation or leading down a path towards it.  You don't need a mentor for that.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/4/2006 3:12:17 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		Don't get lost in a frenzy from need susan.

Worst possible thing to do.

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/4/2006 3:15:07 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		You two may both be right (LA & Homestead. I might need to wait until late Fall, or something). That would be nine months. I need to also talk to my grief counsellor about this. We haven't talked about that (we've been spending time on other stuff, really). Thanks for the feedback.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/4/2006 3:18:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/4/2006 3:22:41 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Because in my world my teacher has no buisness trying to have sex with me or have ultimate agenda's.

Unless of course they wanted someone to have sex with them and spank them and do bdsm stuff with.

My dominant is for the sexy stuff and the being played with.
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

I'm in the mood to be a stinker, so (with apologies to SusanO  ), and this is to everyone, how and/or why did you come to the conclusions of what a mentor can or cannot do? And no, you can't use, "Just because.", or, "Because I was told that.", I want to know what YOU think, not what some one TOLD you.



(in reply to scottjk)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/4/2006 6:13:59 PM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Mostly, I agree with this.

Except I think there's leniency on the play part.

Overall, I think the best mentor is one who had walked in the path that the "ment-ee" hopes to walk.  An s-type for submission things.  A top for play skills stuff.  A knitter for knitting stuff.  Etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressMelissa

Hello susan,

In my house a mentor is someone who will act as an older best friend. Someone that a new person can freely talk too and ask guestions of without fear of judgement or being preyed upon. When they read something on the internet or in a book and want someone to says "hey, I read this, what do you think?" their mentor would then be able to logically and realisticly discuss the issue with them. When they go forth into the real world a mentor will help introduce them to the local community and keep an eye over them. The mentor can check out people to determine if they are safe to associate with and will help ensure that basic safety protocols are being followed. A mentor may arrange contacts for you to experience things first hand. If they do the mentor will be kept informed of what is happening by all parties involved.

A mentor is not a trainer.
A mentor is not a protector but they will watch out for you.
A mentor is not a owner.
A mentor will not play with you. They are not a play partner.
A mentor will not give you a collar of any sort.
A mentor will not ask you to serve them in any way.

A mentor should have the wisedom of a grandparent to sit and discuse issues with a newbie like they would their own grandchild. A gaurdian angle if you will.

(in reply to MistressMelissa)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/4/2006 11:50:42 PM   
shivvy


Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
Status: offline 		Fast Reply..
 
hi ya susan hunny.
 
firstly, a really really big, HUGE hug ><
 
secondly, if i may, i think that all the conflicting advice is just really confusing, and i really do feel sorry for you. i'm lucky, coz i have my Master already, so anything i might say, just do with it as you will.
 
i think it woz LA who said (and i'm sorry if it wasn't LA), that if you need a mentor to make choices for you, wot makes you think you will choose the right mentor? THAT woz really scarey for me, coz i have no answer. i need my Master to make my decisions for me, coz i just can't. but if i were you, (and i have kinda been there), then i would just be lost...
 
and i think it woz Popeye who said (and again, i'm sorry if it wasn't Popeye) about having 3 mentors, and you said about being confused about conflicting advice...
 
for wot it's worth hun, i think you would prolly be betta off, just having a group of friends, who looked out for you, and who you could discuss stuff with...
 
learning wot you need to know, is down to whoeva you eventually offa yourself to. your Master or Mistress will teach you spicific stuff. with respect, i think you just need to sort your head out and decide wot it is you want. and then when you know wot it is you want, go get it.
 
you know i luv and respect you loads hun, and i wish i knew the exact answer for you, but i'm afraid i don't. i just want you to be well and to be happy.
 
coz Master is at work all day, and only audits wot i do online every now and then, sometimes i feel a bit lost, and i woz speaking to some people the otherday about guardianship.. i dunno if that's the same thing you are looking for (i don't wanna hijack your thread hun, so if you wanna compare notes, just message me, ok?). Master isn't that keen i don't think, but He hasn't dismissed it out of hand.
 
i think i'm waffling, so i betta end it there.
 
take care hun, and i hope you get the answer off her you need.
 
luv
 
shiv
xx

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(in reply to ImpGrrl)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/5/2006 12:55:54 AM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This thread is a good example of communications variations.

I suggest that we all need to verify what those we talk to mean when they make statements.
As in most languages, a word like mentor in English can mean very different things to different people.
Yes there is a definition in the dictionary, but there is no guarantee that someone I am talking to has read this or that they agree with it.
To me, a Mentor is one who will advise, teach, guide, suggest, and show a person things about whatever it is she or he is mentoring. They are not play partners although they may teach one play.
I met two people who became friends at a BD/SM munch group a few years back. During our conversation both liked what I had to say.
The man asked me if I would consider mentoring him in the scene. I told him that we would talk further, but yes it would be possible.
The woman asked if I would consider mentoring her too. I thanked her but told her no. Initially she felt a bit hurt and she asked why I'd mentor him but not her.
I explained that I saw a possibility for the growth of a relationship with her, if things worked out, and that ethically to me a mentor does not form a relationship with a mentee, just as I feel a teacher ought not form a relationship with a student in a class they teach.
The lady smiled again when she understood this.
Eventually we both had many smiles.
vield

(in reply to ImpGrrl)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/5/2006 5:10:55 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Hello susan
 
Putting a time frame on it can be helpful - but don't feel as though you have to stick to it rigidly and say - well, it will be nine months - thats enough.
 
You are being driven by the neediness - that hungry, inborn desire to be part of something.  The fact is, you are already part of something - you are part of you.  If you focus on gaining a mentor, you are lifting the focus off yourself - and at this stage of your development thats a dangerous thing to do.  If you are concerned that you will choose the wrong dominant - then how can you choose the right mentor?  It is all part of the same thing.
 
Melting into goo happens - you may make a mistake.  I definately have... even after all this time.  Even with all the mentors I can say I have been blessed to know.  Even with all the wisdom they have shared.  But learning from the mistakes is what allows you to grow.  You can hear and listen to all the advice a mentor can give to you, but ultimately its your responsibility.  You cannot pass the buck onto someone else (I know you are not, and maybe I sound a little harsh) - no matter how well a mentor knows you, he/she cannot live your life for you... and you shouldnt grow to rely on their advice because even mentors make mistakes.
 
In what you may ask a prospective dominant... I will add that I wouldnt ask half those questions because I wouldnt feel they are necessary.  I do not and never have looked for a 'dominant' or a 'Master'... I have simply met and made friends.  People I grow with, people who inspire me, who make me feel... who I can converse with and listen to.  People who I can be honest with and admit what I am without embarressment or being judged.  If they do not like or accept it, then I do not remain in their company - it is that simple.
And in all that time, and in all those people, I found a man who sets me on fire - someone who inspires me not only to be myself, but to be all I can be.  Someone who's intellect is astounding and whos simpleness is alluring.  You cannot force, submission - you cannot help who you submit to - but you can learn to trust yourself.  And that is the most important lesson of all.
 
Peace and Rapture 


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/5/2006 5:32:02 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		I've said this elsewhere but I guess it bears repeating.

The first thing anyone new needs to do is identify WHAT it is they are looking to learn or develop. There are many pitfalls in trying to choose a mentor, all to many of those willing to take someone on like that are not looking out for the best interest of the student, but are looking for a cheep thrill and when you are new and lack confidence ISN'T the best start point from which to find someone to mentor you properly and avoid the idiots!

There is a WIDE selection of helpful folks on these boards. Many with a wide body of posts from which someone can gather some idea of who they are, what they are experienced in and importantly if their style of communication 'speaks' well to the person reading. Why take on just one. Identify several needs and approach people who you feel might give you useful advice on that one aspect.

Same thing applies in the real world and your local community where you can go to clubs, events, play parties and see peoples skills in action, see things you may wish to experience for yourself and spot people you feel you can trust to give you and introduction to that one aspect, safely and in public.

It maybe help you get to the point where you feel confident in your own ability to make good choises when you start moving to doing things with more risk and in private.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/5/2006 6:30:48 AM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

But, it did knock me for a loop today, when I read I think it was the "Ask a Master" forum, and one question was: What do I ask a prospective Dominant? And I had not thought of ever asking at least 70% of the things people were relating as potential questions.


Susan, I read that thread too. I'd like to offer the suggestion that the questions being tossed out left and right probably didnt cross your mind to ask because they are all things that you learn about a person as time goes by.

For goodness sake, if someone approached me with a forty page questionaire on first meeting...or even series of meetings...wanting me to "describe my relationship with my parents" and "list my hobbies" and explain my "philosophy of D/s" Id have to wonder if I were, unbeknownst to me, actually up for some kind of paid position (perhaps as a spokesmodel of some sort?) as opposed to getting to know a person with the intent of possibly coupling. At least Id want to ask "Is this being graded on a curve?"

Im certain that my boyfriend could answer any of the questiones listed in that thread and I about him, but we sure as heck didnt spend our earliest days "together" (like the OP of that thread, our first chats were online) exchanging lists of fill-in-the-blank, multiple choice and essay questions.

No, we talked about poetry. We made one another laugh. We compared musical tastes and tastes in food and travel experiences and ideas about life and relationships and family and friendship. Nobody had a list of questions. Nobody spent hours filling in little circles with stubby-number-two-sans-erasers-pencils. We just enjoyed one another's company and got to know one another the way regular folk do. There's an idea.

I think it would behoove anyone prescribing to these sorts of ideas (not talking about Susan, here, talking about anyone) (...that there is a "right" or "best" way to go about searching for a life partner and that if one fails to comply with the consensus of the group with regard to safety measures along the way, one is doomed to failure at least, a horrible lengthy death by psychopath at worst and some sort of soul-damaging exploitation in between) to chill the-heck-out- for-god's-sake and stop looking until s/he can at least calm down enough to enjoy the process.

Do you really want to approach a potential life-partner with a clipboard, waving a number two pencil?

And instead of wondering if you need a mentor, an interviewing strategy or list of questions, why not wonder if you are fully realizing and cultivating the power of your own intuition?

< Message edited by justheather -- 8/5/2006 6:39:58 AM >

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/5/2006 6:40:22 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		heather: No number two pencils for me. I agree. Your answer made me laugh, it's so true.


*I appreciate all of the responses from everyone. So kind and such good points to ponder.

*Just so ya'll won't think I've disappeared: I am leaving town today for a remote cabin by a big lake in Iowa and won't return until next Friday. Not that the world is going to stop spinning because of that (he) - I just didn't want anyone to wonder why I wasn't writing in or on the CM boards this week.

Take care of yourselves - ya'll are an awesome bunch of folks!

Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/5/2006 6:48:50 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/5/2006 6:50:31 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I see mentors as being the kind of person you would want to become in the future, or at least having some knowledge or wisdom they can impart on to you. I agree with the person that said subs should mentor subs and doms should mentor doms (at least I would seek someone like myself for mentoring me). I have had many mentors through my academic career. The people that have and still are guiding me have done what I seek to do with my future. They know how to go about it. If I felt the need for a mentor in the BDSM context I would choose someone who was experienced in BDSM on the submissive side of things in order to learn more from her (yes, I would also pick a submissive female too).

I feel no need for a mentor at this point in my path either. I am pursuing a dynamic with someone and he mentors me in his own way (although he is not my "mentor" in the sense we are speaking of). If I was looking again I wouldn't mind finding an experienced submissive to mentor me, but she would have to be in the real world and not online because I do not see how we could build that sort of relationship over distance.

Just some thoughts

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/5/2006 7:17:57 AM   
MasterLon


Posts: 33
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		SusanofO, I wrote a post concerning this on 7/29 much to the dismay of some, sorry you do not remember it, but it was quite long, lol. I shall repost it here....
seek out a mentor, ..a mentor is a friend....a counselor....negotiator...a
confidant...but mostly a teacher, he/she is not your Dom/me,
nor your Master/Mistress, You do not need to submit to his/her
will, they teach, thats all they do, if your not there to
learn, thats your fault, your being punished by not learning,
what they have to teach, they, (the mentors) do not punish
you or give you the silent treatment...mentors do not play,
they do not have cyber sex, they teach by communication,
hands off type of teaching, they should have realtime experience,
as well as virtual time, they should have most of the informational
sites that are needed, if they can not answer your question
they should be able to look it up or direct you where to go
to get the answer, NO ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING....a
mentor can be a switch, sub, slave, Dom/me, Master or
Mistress... male or female..they are kind polite and courteous....you
should be able to trust your mentor with everything, even
though they will never ask for proof of this trust, they
do not care what you look like, they will not be in a relationship
with you, they will teach you...only, they teach (IN GENERAL)
about the W H O L E lifestyle not just a certain part, you later
decide what part your most interested in, they do not direct
you to a certain path, that is for you to decide...If a dom
says to you that he is into S&M and will teach you that, walk
away...you need to learn of it all, not just one certain
part, besides you may not be interested in recieving pain...no
one can make you into something your not, not even a mentor,
what you have in your heart and soul is what you are...If
you believe your a Dom/me because thats the feeling you
have deep within you then that is what you are, the same is
true of the submissive, there is no such thing as being a
good sub, makes you a better Dom/me, that is hogwash, or
learning to be a good dom/me, makes you a better sub, thats
also hogwash, look within yourself for what you want to
be, is there, in your own heart and soul, seems I have gotten
away from the subject at hand, seek knowledge, then seek
a true mentor, then seek more knowledge and your mentor
will help you seek your special ONE...goodluck and GOD
BLESS.......MasterLon 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/5/2006 7:34:48 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I've stated what my preferences are.  Like others, I admit to a bit of leeriness for you in choosing one mentor over several.  Plus, there's the whole level of knowledge of you:  you state that what you want is someone who knows you...your moods, your ups/downs, those things that will make you happy and those that will not, etc., etc..  I don't know if this has struck anyone else but the person you describe...except for the play and the obedience...sounds remarkably like a lover and/or your dominant.

I am not saying that it cannot be done...I have friends who are intimate with me in this fashion...but they generally tend to be those with whom I KNOW I could not form a romantic attachment to.

(in reply to BillsGalSusan)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/5/2006 7:35:25 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

tammyjo: I am not sure, but am thinking less in terms of trainer, more in terms of mentor (if that makes sense). Although, I can definitely see a benefit in training. Problem for me with that right now is, anybody I've noticed who might possibly be pretty good at it (and I have judged that based on intuition alone, so have no real yardstick there) probably lives in a different state than I do. I could certainly fly into see them on a monthly basis or something, maybe, but beyond that, well, it might just be impractical.

- Susan


Have you considered then finding another submissive or bottom to be your mentor? I actually think that while we can cross-role mentor, the best mentor is one who shares as much as our role preferences as possible. This person could share their own experiences with you and listen to yours in a different way than a top or dominant could.

I mean, I can help someone learn about activities and ask them questions and give them a safe venue to explore when I train but I don't think that is the same as mentoring another top/dominant which I have done.

My advice now is to find another submissive who seems to be in the sort of relationship(s) that you think you have an interest in finding or leading yourself. They might not even be in a relationship but perhaps were or they have a great philosophy toward BDSM that you admire.

Groups are find for general support but I don't think they replace that one-on-one mentorship. Mentorships don't have to be exclusive but I would talk to a any potential mentor if you wish to get another, they might even have a suggestion of who to ask.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 8/5/2006 7:37:59 AM >

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TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: What exactly is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a ... - 8/5/2006 7:56:16 AM   
BillsGalSusan


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know if you are still around, Susan, but I think waiting a bit longer than you had originally planned sounds like a fine idea. This isn't easy stuff, and you need to have your wits about you, and all your emotional strength at the ready. No one, no matter how successfully they live their own lives as a submissive or a dominant, can provide much more than a critical eye, empathy, and guidance flowing from their own experience. They can be supportive, but they cannot support you if you are really not up for the task.

Another Susan  

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: What is a Mentor supposed to do for-with a submssive? - 8/5/2006 7:58:25 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

There is a WIDE selection of helpful folks on these boards. Many with a wide body of posts from which someone can gather some idea of who they are, what they are experienced in and importantly if their style of communication 'speaks' well to the person reading. Why take on just one. Identify several needs and approach people who you feel might give you useful advice on that one aspect.

I believe this is a key point.  People on these boards are mentors, which also backs up my theory that most mentors may not even be aware of your pressence.  But they still offer insight and wisdom - they still mentor.  To me, people like Em and Raven and LaM are mentors - they teach, not just on what they know and share, but how they present themselves as well.  It is all part of the learning process and like Raven states, even at clubs and munches there will be people who will be mentors - they may not be placing the flogger in your hand, but they are teaching you because you are watching.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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