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RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:00:08 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I agree that people will act in short sight whenever they are permitted, and that sometimes the government should step in with requirements, thus the reason I made the insurance bit tax deductable, incentive to spend it on that.

Want to make it mandatory to be insured I'll buy that too like auto coverage.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:03:14 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I agree that people will act in short sight whenever they are permitted, and that sometimes the government should step in with requirements, thus the reason I made the insurance bit tax deductable, incentive to spend it on that.

Want to make it mandatory to be insured I'll buy that too like auto coverage.


You have some excellent points.

The one I'd continue to come back with however is (as to the tax deductibility issue), it is tax deductible.

If the government says you can't deduct something unless you wear blue shoes....buy a pair of blue shoes.

Ya know?

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:08:31 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Health care costs are tax deductible.  Or so says my accountant when he deducts them for me each year...

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:11:47 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Health care costs are tax deductible.  Or so says my accountant when he deducts them for me each year...


Absolutely.

(I believe that's what they call "making lemonade" in some circles )

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:12:47 PM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

But your pre existing condition does not entitle you to reach into my pocket to pay for it, which is exactly what a government run system does.



We already *are* paying for everyone's health insurance.  The cost of everything we buy is inflated to cover the company's employee expenses.  The GM example:  $1,500 of each car sold is to cover employee health benefits.  Our school district just passed a third levy in 3 years.  One of the reasons for the this most recent levy was because employee health insurance premiums were jumping 40%. 

I had the best insurance coverage I ever had, and probably ever will, when I worked for municipal government.  The premium for family coverage was $720 a month 4 years ago.  I only had to pay 10% of that and coverage was pretty much unlimited compared to most.  Taxpayers paid for the rest.  My current employer pays for my coverage, but I have to pay for my children 100% at a cost of $450 a month.  With that we have deductibles, co-pays and a limited number of visits.  Then I have to decide am I'm going to spend $450 a month in healthcare for my children in order to make it worthwhile to have the coverage in the first place?  No.  But what if (god forbid) something catastrophic happens?  I need to have the coverage just in case.

Something has to change.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:18:31 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

LOL follow the money LOL the Phamaccology industry gets a sub standard profit margin in most cases 10- 15 % is pretty standard Funny how the really big industries tend to be the ones making 5-7% and getting hammerd for such outragious profits.

If you spend 2000 and make 200 you're making 10%
If you spend 200,000 and makee 20,000 you make 10%
If you spend 200 billion and make 20 billion it's still a 10% return on investment.

When is it that people will begin to get that?


i disagree.

how do you explain a 10,000% mark up on meds ?

i see these slicksters IN teh drs office selling my drs the flavor of the day pill. often. seems every 2 of 3 office visit. a sale person pusher is there...

why? not for any 10% it doesnt add up, Sir,.

maybe im wrong. but i do know the system needs some tweaking and fast.


(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:21:52 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari
Something has to change.



She's right...I couldn't have argued the case more effectively than she just did. 

Neither I nor my employees need a national health care system, in fact, I'm pretty confident, given a choice (based on what we could all easily presume a national system would be like), every one of my staff would prefer the health care they have today.  The majority of the American population seems to be doing just fine with the current system.

There's a lot of people who are not.

And as nefertari so eloquently stated...we're paying for it anyway.

(Since that's in fact actually the case...why don't we just make it so these people can go see a decent doctor?)

(in reply to nefertari)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:24:15 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey


The universal healthcare system proposed by Hillary included fines and jail time for not going with the state doctor, state got to pick your doc, etc.



I just think she just needs to be "educated" in that regard.  That makes no sense.  For example, let's say you need your "Wee-hap" removed.  Ok.. JQ Public has NO idea what kind of doctor to go to..so therefore some help from the insurance provider would be appropriate.  But then there are general practicioners that are your PCP (primary Care Physician) that you need to see for referrals.  It's a pain...but at least you have a starting point.   They will need to combine the best of HMO's and Commericial insurances procedures.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:25:24 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Meat, in this country Illegal Aliens get free healthcare but our poorest do not!
How fucked-up is that?


Actually, that's not quite right.  In Arizona, at least, the poorest are covered by the State.  I personally get my health care from the Federal Government through the VA.  Fortunately, Tucson has one of the best VA hospitals in the country.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:28:48 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sure we could have it!
But first we need to get rid of all the Illegal Aliens then do away with Foreign Aid and then we could afford it.
But, if you try to do those things the bleeding heart liberals will try to stop you so the reason we can't have it is because of "liberals."
But, they claim that they're "for" it!
Funny isn't it?


Sweety.. for the past 6 years.. it's been the Conservatives running the show.. wouldn't it be THEY that are letting the illegal aliens in?  We poor bleeding hearts keep getting out-voted by you mean old conservatives.."snifff".. (but not for long)

BTW.. how are YOU benefitting from the conservatives being in power? Got a  government grant for  dust bunny research?  Tax break going on a bogus business venture?

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:33:39 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
I just think she just needs to be "educated" in that regard.  That makes no sense.  For example, let's say you need your "Wee-hap" removed.  Ok.. JQ Public has NO idea what kind of doctor to go to..so therefore some help from the insurance provider would be appropriate.  But then there are general practicioners that are your PCP (primary Care Physician) that you need to see for referrals.  It's a pain...but at least you have a starting point.   They will need to combine the best of HMO's and Commericial insurances procedures.


(Interestingly enough, back in '87 I actually had an enlarged whee-hap.  I went to see a doctor specializing in microscopic whee-hap surgery {which, by the way is quite painful and makes it extremely difficult during the recovery process to bleedle and plurge}, it wasn't covered in my then current policy and, when I showed up at their corporate offices dressed in my best chiffon and proceded to chortle loudly at the fact that several of the insurance company's executive committee had undergone similar surgeries in Sri Lanka at places that went by the name of "Missies titty bar and whee-hap center", they were more than happy to assist me in my hour of need). 

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:35:39 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

But your pre existing condition does not entitle you to reach into my pocket to pay for it, which is exactly what a government run system does.
If I say NO i don't want to pay for her they come with guns and badges and take away my stuff.

I'm not saying throw those who cannot get insurance to the wolves I'm OK with taxing a little to subsidize those whoo are all but uninsurable, mostly I just want it to be done in as private a system as possible.




Yes it does.  I live here... I pay taxes.. to cover YOUR ass if you need it.. you get to cover mine.  I didnt'ask for MS.. but it happened.  Once diagnosed I became a non-person.  Can't get my own health insurance..no one will hire me.. can't even get a life insurance policy.  Can't even get euthanized because our Christian government feels suffing is more noble than ending a usless, non-productive life.    Go figure..

So you are gonna be stuck with me..

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:41:48 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
So you are gonna be stuck with me..


Well, as long as you put the toilet paper roll on such that the paper peels off on the TOP side (not the bottom like most women do it)....as far as I'm concerned, you can stay.

< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 8/26/2006 7:42:19 PM >

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:48:08 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
So you are gonna be stuck with me..


Well, as long as you put the toilet paper roll on such that the paper peels off on the TOP side (not the bottom like most women do it)....as far as I'm concerned, you can stay.


I'm so anal about that.. that wherever I go.. if I find the toilet paper roll is feeding from underneath I turn it over :)  There are only two ways to install a roll.. the right way and the wrong way.  Now, how are you about putting down the rim AND the toilet seat?  What time is breakfast..

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:50:10 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I like the paper coming from the top.

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 7:52:28 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

I like the paper coming from the top.

Oh most definitely from the top.  And when I go to a friend's or relative's house and it's coming from the bottom?  I change it

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 8:04:09 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Now, how are you about putting down the rim AND the toilet seat? 


Is THAT what that thing that's always up against the back of the terlet is called?

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 8:10:35 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This is a very interesting article about the problems that GM (and the whole country) is facing:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060828fa_fact

I'm not normally a fan of Malcolm Gladwell, but this article was very clearly written.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

When companies like GM finally figure out that they might actually be able to save themselves and compete with foreign automobile-makers if our government provided universal healthcare--that's when we'll have it.  As usual, we'll get something when corporations start clamoring for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

the US will never have it.



Evening, Lam. I think about $1,500 of the price of every new GM vehicle goes to pay for the health-care of their employees, so what you said makes some sense. But with the US (and other developed countries) heading towards trouble due to the graying of thier populations, can anyone afford universal care for much longer?

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 8:24:04 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well this is going the way of no fault insurance........the big stink was made that malpractice claims were the downfall of the american way.........Government intervention the reason for pill prices.....

First of all, not everyone who is a chanker mechanic graduates at the top of the class....there must be D rated guys with a diploma on the wall.

Pills here cost far more than they do in other countries......well very few pills are actually made here.....that has been rather outsourced and the henta shit going on (not with my life) has caused us to bow in front of the cornstarch crowd with government in pocket singing the praises of the free and open market.

Of course the republicans stated goals is to leave goverment out of the equation and let the free market reign..........But of course,  corporations and individual that make up their aristocracy have at their base, only prurient and altruistic intent.

Who thought that shit up?

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Universal Healthcare - 8/26/2006 8:54:10 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Americans have no problem paying for a military program, a space program, lots of others programs most people don't even know exist... what is so wrong with re-distributing some of our money and paying for  a healthcare program so every American will have health insurance?

Securing the safety and well-being of the US and its citizens is the primary function of government.  Many people who are against universal healthcare want our borders to be closed, to profile for terrorists, tap everyone's phones ... all to ensure everyone's safety... so the terrorists won't get us.  Why not ensure everyone's well-being with healthcare.  More people die and are sick from disease, injury, or illness than they are from terrorists.  Health is a primary concern for all of us... is the space program really more important?  The money we spend on the war each day could have been megabucks for healthcare and education.  Our nation was enjoying a surplus when Bush came aboard.... if he wanted to give us the highest deficit ever... it should have at least included healthcare coverage. 

Universal healthcare makes sense... it's bound to happen eventually.  The government is wasting our money on all sorts of things now...  at least healthcare isn't a waste. 


< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 8/26/2006 8:55:24 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 80
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