RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/2/2006 8:08:02 PM)

The ear they have with this president seems to be pushing for amnesty... so that does not make rational sense if you ask me... but I could be wrong.



juliaoceania -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/2/2006 11:14:32 PM)

Mexicans have much Native American blood in them, I do not see your point, they have more native right to be here than most of us do. Most American Native Americans do not speak their native tongue either.. I do not see the point.

I have many Mexican American friends... my great nephew's father is a second generation Mexican American.. his mother does not speak English, although his father does.  I dated someone that had a Mexican American father. This is all rather bigoted and ugly.

And I have bought tamales from Mexicans made right out of their kitchen, and I never got food poisoning,... these people live in my community and are a part of the fabric of it.



seeksfemslave -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 12:20:43 AM)

My fellow Americans.lol   Do not worry; as the UK will be an Islamic nation by about 2075 so will the USA be Hispanic by about 2035.
I will be watching you all from the great language school in the sky !

Please love one another !



FangsNfeet -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:14:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

My fellow Americans.lol   Do not worry; as the UK will be an Islamic nation by about 2075 so will the USA be Hispanic by about 2035.
I will be watching you all from the great language school in the sky !

Please love one another !



Isn't it true that Russia has a illegal immigration problem with the Chinese much like the US has with Mexico?
Anyhow, immigration and the mixing of culture/language is apart of life and histroy. For example, how do  you think the term Anglo-Saxon came to be?

I'm not against immigration and the natural flow of adaptaion  between one another. I took spanish on the premise that I may one day visit Mexico, Spain, and Puerto Rico. I had no idea that I needed it to order food, buy tires, and use my debit card here in the USA.

Unless you plan to conquer another country, I think it's best to learn the language that the other country speaks rather than say it's unfair that they don't have to know your language.

I don't see oriental and middle eastern immigrants needing patriotic anthems and pledges needing to be translated in there original language. What causes an immigrant from Mexico to get such special treatment? The average canadian immigrant has to pay atleast $3000 and be married to a US citizen before they can even work in the US. When you go to Wal Mart and various stores, you now see the American flag and the Mexican flag for sell but where are all the flags for the rest of the immigrants?

On a last note, immigration seems to bring in more celebrations. The US now celebrates Cinco de Myo and St Patricks day.   



NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:16:23 AM)

Seeks,

Relax, it'll be alright. We go through this cycle of nonsense every hundred years or so - at various times in our history it has been the French, the Irish, the Jews, the Poles, Afro-Carribeans and now British Muslims are in the firing line. Give it 30 years and those who share your views will have found some other vehicle to express their personal frustration with life.

It's all a bit strange that many British Muslims were born and raised here and are as British as fish and chips but 600,000 Poles come within the last 2 years and those who share your views don't bat an eyelid. 

Let's be honest Seeks, this is Islamophobia masquerading as concern over immigration.

Regards




NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:22:32 AM)

Good point from Fangs - the British are a mongrel race with a mongrel language and by extenstion so are the Americans who descend from this place. Our language is a bizarre mixture of old Norwegian, French and German and we are a nation of immigrants from various parts of the world at various times in our history. Today is simply another episode of people wanting to come here to earn a living. Good luck to them.

Regards



NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:28:07 AM)

Another thing, why on earth would anyone want to live in a place where everyone looked the same and conformed to the same values. How boring would that be. I love the fact that in Manchester we have significant ethnic groups from the Carribean, Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, Spain and China - with a few Germans, French and Americans sprinkled around for good measure. Makes for an interesting place with people with all sorts of stories to tell.

Regards



meatcleaver -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:32:40 AM)

When I've been in Britain I have never come across anyone complaining about Poles though I am aware of the feeling that many Asians form a fifth column, though this is really confined to Islamic Asians for obvious reasons. The problem is, that many muslims do have a genuine problem with western culture. Look at the Rusdie affair. That was a fundemental and unresolvable difference in cultures, freedom of speach v Islam.

The problem is culture and economics, not race. Britain is in the EU and agreed to the free flow of labour. The fact 600,000 Poles migrated for work just shows there was enough work in the UK economy to accommodate them, which has me questioning indiginous people who claim they can't get work.

I live in Holland where there is a similar problem with Islam and no other culture and the same problem is in many European countries. It is a cultural issue not a racial issue and the one common factor is Islam. Muslims really do need to look at themselves and ask themselves why so many other cultures from Chritian, Hindu to Budhist, have a particular problem with Islam.



NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:41:30 AM)

I disagree. As a society we need to examine why we have a problem with them. For example, your statement "many muslims do have a genuine problem with western culture". Are you talking about British muslims here? if so, what proportion do you believe to be "many"? is this proportion significant or simply indicative of the fact there will always be a small segment of an ethnic group which does not conform for reasons that can be explained as non-cultural?

The young British muslims I see in Manchester dress in a very British style, speak English and have British values such as materialism, go to the same clubs we do and play the same sports we do so if your comment is aimed at British muslims then I don't think it stacks up.

Regards



meatcleaver -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 3:57:36 AM)

Well, I'm sorry for the recent terror escapades which wouldn't surprise me if you found them to be a state conspiracy but most people see them as evidence of a disaffection within the Islamic community. Now this disaffection goes throughout the world. Europe is not the only culture suffering from Islamic disaffection but India is and many Budhist areas in the far east that live along side Islam. Now I'm not saying that every muslim is a terrorist or a potential terrorist but terrorism is allowed to exist and tends to go unnoticed in communities where there is a general sympathy for the views of the terrorists. I am sure that many Asians are surprised when they find that people they know have been arrested on suspicion of being a terrorist but then the accused terrorist was probably using the same language as them. There was a case in Holland where a rather candid muslim who initially showed surprise at one of his neighbours being arrested for terrorist activity did say on reflection, many of us talk about violence towards the host population because of our frustrations, we are just surprised when someone actually means it.



NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 5:08:27 AM)

Surely you can distinguish between 0.01% of the British muslim community and 99.9%? 4 British muslims and 23 suspected British muslims out of a community of 2 million people have caused "terror" - hardly representative of the British muslim community and hardly the grounds to make the assumption that British muslims "have a genuine problem with Western culture".

You mention India - India has traditionally been a breeding ground for religious violence and Hindus have been as active as Muslims in this cycle of violence - I wonder why it is muslims that are always mentioned in the context of religious violence?

No one is saying terrorism is excusable or defendable - the argument is let's put it in perspective and be fair i.e. let's not label a whole ethnic group on the actions of a tiny minority.

I agree that much of the British muslim community feel a sense of alienation, second class status and horror at British foreign policy but then there are many British whites who agree wholeheartedly - this view of British life does not mean people support or are predisposed to terrorism so terroism is not really relevant when discussing the British muslim community.

Regards



Dtesmoac -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:03:52 AM)

Wasn't there a survey in the UK last week / two weeks ago reported on BBC web page that one third of Muslims interviewed believed the London bombings were justified. Gent - even allowing for skewed sample that is much bigger than you are allowing for.

You can throw up the Islamiphobia label but there certainly appears to be a significant element in islam that is similar to the bigotry that was found in other religeons e.g Christianity in the Middle Ages - Not just the willingness to commit mass murder on the base your religeon is right and others are wrong but also in the requirement to keep women covered and away from men, the right to at best coerce and at worst force young girsl to marry strangers for proffit and or family aliances, acceptance that you can tell people with other beliefs and way of life that they must / should convert to islam and change there way of life or something terrible will happen to them or their families.

Islamaphobia did not exist when I was younger because most people didn't come across a muslim or know anything about them. In fact in the 80s the Telegraph had an article about them saying they were Britains Nation of Shop keepers and how well integrated and hard working they were. Islamaphobia (if it exists) has arrisen because of actions taken in the name of Islam which have not been condemend adequaetly or with conviction by sufficient parts of the muslim community in side the UK or in other parts of the world.

Why is Jihad an acceptable term - Islamic religeous war - but crusade Christian religeous war is not. ????

(wish there was a spell checker on this page)

Ref India - if you talk to some Hindus then you really will get a view point of Islmaphobia and a very candid view on how the Muslims should be made to tow the line. Gent if you think the UK public is irrational the Indian Hindu view point is positively frightening and often based upon the starting points of - all Crime is due to Muslims, the Mughals tour down temples and built Mosques in their place so we must tear down the Mosques, Pakistan is a bad place, backward and has the terrorists that set the Dehli / Bombay (Mumby) so we should attack them........  these points were from educated, high skilled, professions. There candour was refreshing but the extreme nature of many views was worrying.



Level -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:24:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

Wasn't there a survey in the UK last week / two weeks ago reported on BBC web page that one third of Muslims interviewed believed the London bombings were justified. Gent - even allowing for skewed sample that is much bigger than you are allowing for.

You can throw up the Islamiphobia label but there certainly appears to be a significant element in islam that is similar to the bigotry that was found in other religeons e.g Christianity in the Middle Ages - Not just the willingness to commit mass murder on the base your religeon is right and others are wrong but also in the requirement to keep women covered and away from men, the right to at best coerce and at worst force young girsl to marry strangers for proffit and or family aliances, acceptance that you can tell people with other beliefs and way of life that they must / should convert to islam and change there way of life or something terrible will happen to them or their families.

Islamaphobia did not exist when I was younger because most people didn't come across a muslim or know anything about them. In fact in the 80s the Telegraph had an article about them saying they were Britains Nation of Shop keepers and how well integrated and hard working they were. Islamaphobia (if it exists) has arrisen because of actions taken in the name of Islam which have not been condemend adequaetly or with conviction by sufficient parts of the muslim community in side the UK or in other parts of the world.

Why is Jihad an acceptable term - Islamic religeous war - but crusade Christian religeous war is not. ????

(wish there was a spell checker on this page)

Ref India - if you talk to some Hindus then you really will get a view point of Islmaphobia and a very candid view on how the Muslims should be made to tow the line. Gent if you think the UK public is irrational the Indian Hindu view point is positively frightening and often based upon the starting points of - all Crime is due to Muslims, the Mughals tour down temples and built Mosques in their place so we must tear down the Mosques, Pakistan is a bad place, backward and has the terrorists that set the Dehli / Bombay (Mumby) so we should attack them........  these points were from educated, high skilled, professions. There candour was refreshing but the extreme nature of many views was worrying.


Good post, Dtesmoac, but one thing I'd point out is that "jihad" means to struggle.... many muslims believe it means to struggle with one's self, to become better, to overcome bad habits, etc. But yes, many others think it's intended to give a green light to waging war.



seeksfemslave -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:25:40 AM)

Northern Gent since you asked the question ...why the major concern with Islam ...I will tell you...It has a high proportion of dedicated fundamentalists who despise everything the relatively free West stand for. The over whelming majority of Muslims do not subscribe to Western values. That is the problem that well intentioned do gooders like yourself will not face and may not even know. It is those Muslims gamboling around Manchester that are the minority.

Whats wrong with Islamaphobia, my suggestion to you NG is that you convert, decide that it is not for you then make a high profile denunciation of Islam and try to leave. My son, it is you who will be turned in to fish and chips.

With regard to the high number of Poles then all that is required is time. Let us wait until the next recession occurs, which it will, unemployment rises, taxes need to rise to support unemployed immigrants then.. social tensions will increase. Its no use shooting the messenger NG, listen to the message.
Fine in theory but nowhere in the world are societies split on racial/ religious grounds stable. Nowhere ! see Sri Lanka, India, Nigeria, Uganda, Angola, Sudan, Rwanda, Indonesia, Franc,Germany, Holland, Belgium Zimbabwe South Africa, Zambia the Congo, Iran, Iraq and uncle Tom Cobley and all, why even the jolly old USA has had its share of problems. as has the UK. The best is yet to come NG, in my opinion anyway.
Aren't I awful....or just realistic. Are you worried NG, because you damn well ought to be !



LotusSong -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:36:03 AM)

NG,
Does Britain have special programs for the Poles and Muslims to  learn English and free healthcare for them?  What do you do to bend over backward for the ill prepared when they arrive in your country?  Does Britain lower it's educational standards so "no child" is left behind?  Does it susbsidise courses to learn Polish and Farsi so you can communicte with them or would you have to pay that out of pocket?  Do you feel obligated to eat a homemade fallafel so as not to appear racisit?

Did your Primei Minister do permanent tax cuts and hope to be able to accomodate everyone under them?  Do you make sure everyone knows some of your "best freinds are Muslim or Polish"? 

(all questions rhetorically posed to underscore other ludicrous comments of the past by the general public)



NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:37:42 AM)

Dtes,

The one third comment - I haven't seen it but I wouldn't deny it exists. Before making any judgement I would want to know who exactly was questioned and what were the questions to arrive at the "justified" conclusion.

On the mass murder comment - recently, 60 Nigerian muslims were murdered by christians. The point here is that backward practices are as much a result of a lack of education as any religious view. There are all sorts of strange things happening in the third world so to single the muslim section out as more backward than the rest is not a fair comment. For example, it is only 15 years ago that Serbs and Croats were embroiled in a programme of ethnic cleansing and it doesn't come anymore backward than that - my understanding is the Croats view themselves as devout Catholics - not sure about the Serbs.

I don't agree on your point on why Islamophobia developed. Why do the muslim community have to condemn terrorists? Do they represent terrorists? Do they hold any responsibility for them? Did British whites feel responsibility for the likes of David Copeland?

Jihad does not mean Islamic religious war - it means a struggle and can mean a struggle in various arenas of life. The fanatical elements have doctored the term Jihad for their benefit. So, how threatened British whites feel about the term Jihad will be determined by how threatening they perceive muslims to be.

Honestly, I don't think the UK public wants to be irrational about the muslim community. I think most of us are confused by the various signals we are getting from our government. We have Blair saying the British muslim community must condemn terrorism (in actual fact, they have, repeatedly, but some keep ignoring this condemnation). I personally think it is dangerous to somehow hold the wider British muslim community responsible for terrorists as they are not their keepers and it creates the impression they are connected.

Regards



seeksfemslave -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:39:08 AM)

When the merde finally hits the fan the NG's of this world will rush to hide behind the parapet and not say word. Put the Guardian over their head for protection I expect. Wot a larf.

With regard to immigration, after some trouble between Pakistani and Kurds in Peterboro, a Pakistani spokesperson complained that Blairs boys should be careful where they dispersed immigrants and take more account of the locals' feelings. Wot a larf.
The local MP denied there had been any trouble !
The Guardian blamed government policy in Iraq.
NG was out dancing in Manchester in an Islamic gay club.  Wot a larf

I bet if NG replies he just throws out a few labels and indulges in personal attacks.
Word definition.. a racist is one who frequently expresses an opinion that dewy eyed Liberals find unpalatable.



LotusSong -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:49:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chloelicious

Well My american fellows i got a question for you:

Do you have in  your constitution  a text who said that English was/is the official language? I think that i have learn that you had'nt any. If you have not then everybody is free to express himself in His language.



Actually  there was a bill passed this year stating that English is the national language.  We didn't seem to need it before, as it was just "understood".  But yes, now we have it in writing.  I now have validation that I can safely choose to speak my own language in my own country.



NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:51:27 AM)

Seeks,

The over whelming majority of Muslims do not subscribe to Western values. Is this a problem? I don't subscribe to muslim values or christian values or even US values but I don't see anybody coming up to me and saying "what's your game, you have to be like us". Why should we be doing it to them? Why can't they just live whatever lives they want to live - providing they are peaceful as the 99.9% of British muslims are?

Whats wrong with Islamaphobia, my suggestion to you NG is that you convert, decide that it is not for you then make a high profile denunciation of Islam and try to leave. My son, it is you who will be turned in to fish and chips. a) what am I going to convert from b) can you give me some examples of this high profile denunciation. I'll give you a true story that is a current topic. A 12 year old girl with a Pakistani father and British mother has gone to live in Pakistan with her father (the father and mother have split) - the instant reaction in Britain was "she has been kidnapped, she will be forced into an arranged marriage". Now, the British MP for Glasgow has flown out to Pakistan and it turns out the girl just wants to live with her father - it never entered the heads of the British media and public that maybe the young girl just loved her father and wanted to be with him and actually Britain is not the heaven on earth we ould like to believe - this will tell you what christian Britain thinks about christians opting for a muslim way of life.

You're right about personal wealth and racism. They are interlinked and when the recession comes the idiots among us will be looking for scapegoat just as they have in various parts of history. Multi-culturalism doesn't worry me, idiotic British whites worry me.

Regards




NorthernGent -> RE: How ready are you for Spanish? (9/3/2006 6:56:22 AM)

When the merde finally hits the fan the NG's of this world will rush to hide behind the parapet and not say word. Put the Guardian over their head for protection I expect. Wot a larf.

With regard to immigration, after some trouble between Pakistani and Kurds in Peterboro, a Pakistani spokesperson complained that Blairs boys should be careful where they dispersed immigrants and take more account of the locals' feelings. Wot a larf.
The local MP denied there had been any trouble !
The Guardian blamed government policy in Iraq.
NG was out dancing in Manchester in an Islamic gay club.  Wot a larf

I bet if NG replies he just throws out a few labels and indulges in personal attacks.
Word definition.. a racist is one who frequently expresses an opinion that dewy eyed Liberals find unpalatable.

In one spell-binding example of hypocrisy you have managed to argue yourself into submission.

Regards



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